WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

[uwbadgers14]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Out of the blue topic, but does Bucky have anybody in the pipeline (outside of Thompson) to replace Bennett and Guddy next year? Is Thompson highly thought of, or just a practice guy??

i'm sure they do, its time we get a big time goalie that can be effective in the early years. They system we have had is ok, that is learning for 2 years then getting the starting job but there are down falls of that, such as not being use to playing that many games, if the progression doesn't go well you end up with average goaltending (Shane Connelly) although I would probably put shane as above average as far as the league goes but as far as our program he was average. I see other schools win lots of games with freshman or soph. goaltending (BU. UND, DU, BC, CC) There is no reason we can't get the same here, plus you would think top goalies would want to come here because of the defensive system eaves tends to play. So if i had to guess i'm thinking Eaves has his eye on someone that could come in and start as a fresh or soph.

Thompson is just a practice goalie

[MadCityRich]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Out of the blue topic, but does Bucky have anybody in the pipeline (outside of Thompson) to replace Bennett and Guddy after next year? Is Thompson highly thought of, or just a practice guy??

I kind of agree uw14. Although Thompson was asked to walk-on to WI, he was in Bozeman (Tier 2) and not the USHL. IIRC, he had outstanding numbers in high school and was all state but not many, or any, D-1 looks. No knock on him because he now is in D-1, but he will be another Ryan Jeffries/Jeff Henderson...nothin' wrong with that; they BOTH have NC rings!!

[Crainer]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

I also hope that they at least have their eye on somebody. Unfortunately, the days of just finding somebody and having Howie coach them into an All-American are over. High hopes for Sanger, but would like to see them give him a little bit of talent to work with. I think they did a good job getting Bennett. Guddy is decent, but personally, if you couldn't beat out Connelly, your not good enough.

Brought it up because SCSU is starting Lee tonight, which was very highly touted. When is the last time Bucky brought in a goalie with any hype??

[uwbadgers14]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

I also hope that they at least have their eye on somebody. Unfortunately, the days of just finding somebody and having Howie coach them into an All-American are over. High hopes for Sanger, but would like to see them give him a little bit of talent to work with. I think they did a good job getting Bennett. Guddy is decent, but personally, if you couldn't beat out Connelly, your not good enough.

Brought it up because SCSU is starting Lee tonight, which was very highly touted. When is the last time Bucky brought in a goalie with any hype??

Brian Elliott had a bit of hype, he was the best goalie to come out of ontario by far, mainly because he didn't get drafted into the OHL. People who followed hockey closely knew that Brian Elliott was a very good goalie already when he got here but Bernd bruckler had the job already, had Bruckler turned pro Elliott would have been the starter in his Soph year.

[blockski]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

I also hope that they at least have their eye on somebody. Unfortunately, the days of just finding somebody and having Howie coach them into an All-American are over. High hopes for Sanger, but would like to see them give him a little bit of talent to work with. I think they did a good job getting Bennett. Guddy is decent, but personally, if you couldn't beat out Connelly, your not good enough.

Brought it up because SCSU is starting Lee tonight, which was very highly touted. When is the last time Bucky brought in a goalie with any hype??

Well, hype is overrated. Elliott had negative hype, if that's possible.

I guess Eaves landed Mike Brodeur back in the day, but he bolted for Major Junior after the NCAA dinged him because he played a few minutes in a charity match against MJ players, or some other BS like that.

[Crainer]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Brian Elliott had a bit of hype, he was the best goalie to come out of ontario by far, mainly because he didn't get drafted into the OHL. People who followed hockey closely knew that Brian Elliott was a very good goalie already when he got here but Bernd bruckler had the job already, had Bruckler turned pro Elliott would have been the starter in his Soph year.

Yeah, would have to agree Elliot worked out OK . Wasn't he brought in pretty late in the game though? I seem to remember that Ottawa let him sign with us a couple of weeks before school started? I guess I was thinking more along the lines of signing someone during the early signing period. I don't remember Bruckler or Melanson being hyped. Valley?

[uwbadgers14]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Yeah, would have to agree Elliot worked out OK . Wasn't he brought in pretty late in the game though? I seem to remember that Ottawa let him sign with us a couple of weeks before school started? I guess I was thinking more along the lines of signing someone during the early signing period. I don't remember Bruckler or Melanson being hyped. Valley?

for a long time they wanted to bring goalies that would work well in Howards system and were coachable, highly hyped was so much of a priority but now i think it will be from now on.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Here's a shock to no-one:

The Wisconsin State Journal is useless.

If they're going to print that, I suggest we start writing in (see comment #4 in the No Alibis blog post in the link).

Good work, Gandalf. You wizard.

[uwbadgers14]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Here's a shock to no-one:

The Wisconsin State Journal is useless.

If they're going to print that, I suggest we start writing in (see comment #4 in the No Alibis blog post in the link).

Good work, Gandalf. You wizard.

WOW WSJ, you just got owned...

by the way, just throwing this out there, i'm curious to see how he feels about the the current MMA fad going on. you want to stop "fighting" in college hockey, well what about all MMA fighting, which seems to be big in this town, for whatever reason. My personal feelings of MMA aside, its an interesting comparison... It would help of the guy knew what a hockey fight was before writing an article about it. hey i'm just saying. This hockey program is too good for the media in this town that covers it.. plain and simple... i'm so sick of our program getting covered by people that either have never played the game nor have they ever taken the time to learn the game properly...

[sweatpants]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Yeah, would have to agree Elliot worked out OK . Wasn't he brought in pretty late in the game though? I seem to remember that Ottawa let him sign with us a couple of weeks before school started? I guess I was thinking more along the lines of signing someone during the early signing period. I don't remember Bruckler or Melanson being hyped. Valley?

Bruckler was definitely really hyped up. Valley not so much. Melanson not at all. Jim Carey will probably go down as the most hyped goalie in Badger history. He was the talk everywhere.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

It would help of the guy knew what a hockey fight was before writing an article about it.

No kidding.

Gloved punches to the shoulder pads? That's not a fight.

[Almington]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

No, you don't - I'm arguing that you should, however - if you want a better metric. If you're going to pro-rate PP's that get cut off due to other penalties, you shouldn't also pro-rate them for PPs cut off due to goals scored.

You have to normalize for a regular 2 min PP though, that's what I've been trying to say. The very best outcome of your garden variety 2 minute PP is 1 goal. That could happen in the first 5 seconds or the last 5 seconds - that shouldn't matter in terms of effectiveness.

So - in a 2 min PP that isn't interrupted by another penalty, there are two possible outcomes - 1 (a goal) and 0 (no goal).

This isn't to say that the overall rate can't be better than 1 goal per 2 minutes of PP time - it could be. But the individual calculation for one PP cannot and should not exceed the maximum. The best you ought to be able to do in a PP is go 1/1.

If you only do a pure rate calculation, a team that scores early could (in theory) achieve a better rate than the maximum - the max being 1 goal per 2 minutes of PP time.

Is that an indication of a team that's better at scoring goals? Maybe. Is that an indication of a better PP? I don't think so, because that's not how the rules of the game are set up for minor penalties.



(not sure your math is right on that rate - for 2 min of PP time, they'd have .308 goals, not .325. I think you divided the whole time by 2 (minutes) instead of by 1 (goals scored) ).

The way I'd propose it be calculated is like this:

PP1 - counts for 15 seconds
PP2 - counts for 2 mins
PP3 - counts for 2 mins, Goal scored
PP4 - counts for 2 mins
PP5 - counts for 1.5 mins

So, you've got 1 goal for 6:30 of actual PP time, but you would have expected (barring other penalties) 7.75 minutes of PP time, not the 6.5 that you got. The difference is the 1:15 that was remaining on PP3 when the goal was scored.

Hence:

Traditional measurement - 1/5, 20% (1 goal/10 'assumed' minutes from 5 pp's, *2 min per PP = 20%)
Your measure - 1/6.5 min, (1 goal/6.5 minutes, *2 min per PP = 30.8%)
My measure - 1/7.75 min, (1 goal/7.75 minutes, *2 min per PP = 25.8%)

If you're a coach and want an internal metric to see how well you're team is doing, then a pure rate calculation might work well for internal purposes.

However, for a more objective measure of a team's effectiveness on the PP, I think you have to treat all PP's where a goal is scored as if the PP would have run for the fully allotted time.

The problem I see with the pure rate calculation you propose is that you'd artificially inflate the success rates of teams that score fast on the PP. I think a 2 minute minor penalty should be assessed with a goal being the max value - whether scored 10 seconds in or 110 seconds in. The traditional PP percentage metric would count that as 1/1, which I think is a good starting point.

Prorating the time should happen for PPs truncated by other penalties or the end of the game. Not sure how to calculate 5 on 3s...

I understand your point and I think that it a slightly better option. But it feels a little odd to reward a team for taking a penalty that ends a PP, but effectively punishing them for being successful and scoring a goal.

I do like that your method effectively caps the team at 1 goal per 2 minutes of PP time, but how would you account for a major penalty then? What about the power plays that normally bookend a 5-on-3 event?

I do think that this has potential for being a valid PP metric.

[bucky15]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Should be interesting to see if the league comes down on C Smith for his second CFB.


Heatley is on a scoring spree for the Sharks

[uwbadgers14]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Should be interesting to see if the league comes down on C Smith for his second CFB.


Heatley is on a scoring spree for the Sharks

I thought it was a terrible call, it was a penalty but to give him a CFB was overboard IMO. they whole game last night was called horrible. When you have a full period without 5 on 5 hockey you know once again the WCHA refs are trying to take the game over yet again. I use to ask, when's this going to stop but now i'm use to it...

[uwbadgers14]

Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Anybody else a little shocked about the stability of our lineup this early in the season. not very Eaves like but i like it. Only been a couple changes in lines and starting lineups... i feel that this better start then recent years may be in part due to that...