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Rockchops
10-31-2009, 12:08 PM
Can someone who knows where to find such statistics make a comparison on the team's PIM after the same number of games over the last two seasons to this one? I have a hunch that despite our complaints, we're staying out of the box better than the last two seasons. Such an improvement would be all that I'd ask for.

DrDemento
10-31-2009, 12:20 PM
Can someone who knows where to find such statistics make a comparison on the team's PIM after the same number of games over the last two seasons to this one? I have a hunch that despite our complaints, we're staying out of the box better than the last two seasons. Such an improvement would be all that I'd ask for.

We are averaging a little over 14 minutes in penalties per game so far this year. Last year we were indeed higher-but this year's results are skewed by the one game with AIC where we had zero minutes-definitely an aberration for an RPI team. Hard to compare this with previous years though as the ECAC and NCAA had an agenda to crack down more in those years so the first few games of the past several years had incredible numbers of penalties called. The key statistic is we are 4-2-1 so far and if we can continue on that pace I would not mind whatever penalty minutes we get called for.

Red Cloud
10-31-2009, 12:33 PM
Can someone who knows where to find such statistics make a comparison on the team's PIM after the same number of games over the last two seasons to this one? I have a hunch that despite our complaints, we're staying out of the box better than the last two seasons. Such an improvement would be all that I'd ask for.

Collegehockeystats.net, but you'd have to do some research. I'll do it.

Red Cloud
10-31-2009, 12:41 PM
Research done.

7 games into the 08-09 season, Engineers had 50 penalties for 100 minutes.

7 games into 09-10, Engineers have 46 penalties for 103 minutes.

So... nothing different really. Two real outliers in the UMass game (14 for 28) and AIC (no penalties) though.

jmhusker
10-31-2009, 12:42 PM
Keep in mind this is just my personal opinion but most players coming out of Canada have some difficulty adjusting to American hockey rules handed down by USA Hockey(whom I believe are started down a road of ruining the intent of the game)The game in Canada is played with much more of an edge and is a little more scrappy than the US game more inline with the NHL type game.This is one of the reasons players drafted by NHL teams for the purpose of hard,tough,rugged play are encouraged to leave school or not go at all.I personally know of 1 instance of this very recently mentioning no names.I firmly believe that in the USA the game is no longer officiated on the merits of the game instead the leagues decide what penalties are going to be targeted on any given week,month,season and then the Refs go out and look for those penalties.
You are right about USA hockey wanting to emphasize speed and skill over hitting. That strategy is shared by our friends to the north too. It has become clear to both governing bodies that the Europeans are doing a better job teaching their kids and as a result Canada and the US are moving toward more skill emphasis and away from hitting teams into submission.

Finding the right balance for when to call penalties is going to be an ongoing challenge. I would prefer less to more too. However, I don't think USA hockey's emphasis on skill is ruining the games at all. Look at the NHL now compared to 5 years ago. It is much better to watch and it's the emphasis on speed and skill that did it. Now if only they can find a way to force Jacques Lemaire into early retirement the fun can continue.

knsmith
10-31-2009, 12:46 PM
Another comparison... it wasn't until January 10 (or 22 games into the season) that we got our 4th win last season.

fr joe
10-31-2009, 12:47 PM
Research done.

7 games into the 08-09 season, Engineers had 50 penalties for 100 minutes.

7 games into 09-10, Engineers have 46 penalties for 103 minutes.

So... nothing different really. Two real outliers in the UMass game (14 for 28) and AIC (no penalties) though.

Thanks, RC. Even if PMs don't change much over the course of the season, I'll be happy if we can avoid 'killers' like that one UC had late in the third last night... we all have memories of ill-timed RPI penalties in games past.

Along with improved third period play (which we're enjoying so far this season), avoiding bad penalties is another sign of improvement in our team's play.

knsmith
10-31-2009, 12:55 PM
Thanks, RC. Even if PMs don't change much over the course of the season, I'll be happy if we can avoid 'killers' like that one UC had late in the third last night... we all have memories of ill-timed RPI penalties in games past.

Along with improved third period play (which we're enjoying so far this season), avoiding bad penalties is another sign of improvement in our team's play.

I'm a little concerned with our third period play. We're -2 in goals, and our shots by period are +16, -1, -12 (for 1st, 2nd, 3rd respectively).

GRussinko
10-31-2009, 01:08 PM
I'm a little concerned with our third period play. We're -2 in goals, and our shots by period are +16, -1, -12 (for 1st, 2nd, 3rd respectively).

It hasn't consistently been bad, more hit and miss. While the overall stats point to a bad third period, several of our games have been decided in our favor thanks to third period play:

PEI - came back from down 3-1 to tie
UNH - came from a 1-1- tie to win 3-1
AIC - late third period goal to take 3-2 lead
Union - late third period goal to tie the game

FlagDUDE08
10-31-2009, 01:24 PM
Plus, just like the penalty minutes, a lot of the stats are skewed. In the UA_ game (to quote our friends from the Northwest), we were outshot 18-2. In the UNH game, we came out firing in the 3rd, and let up in the 2nd. It may be inconsistent, but as long as we find a way to make the number under RPI higher than the number under Visitor when the clock says 00.0 with period 3, it's all good.

FlagDUDE08
10-31-2009, 01:37 PM
FD08-Trust me, the NHL would rather Pirri show he cant be pushed around-His penalty minutes do not bother them at all. So far his penalties have not been all that bad and certainly not stupid.

He is the most penalized player on the team, that includes CJ Lee getting thrown out against UAA. I guess we have to see whether the penalties are from playing aggressive, or if he's trying to cut corners. I would suspect, especially from the UNH game I saw (and I'll take a look at more of the games from RPI TV), that it's the former, which is a good thing. We need players that want to just go for it out on the ice.

fr joe
10-31-2009, 01:38 PM
It hasn't consistently been bad, more hit and miss. While the overall stats point to a bad third period, several of our games have been decided in our favor thanks to third period play:

PEI - came back from down 3-1 to tie
UNH - came from a 1-1- tie to win 3-1
AIC - late third period goal to take 3-2 lead
Union - late third period goal to tie the game

Thanks, GR... my basic point is that in the games we've won (but for Sacred Heart) the third period has been a positive... and we haven't been able to say that in the last few seasons. (Why is the third 'bad overall?' Look at the Alaska trip & UMass.) This season? It's still early, but I'm pleased with the trend. Now let's not get big heads. We have a game with an Army team that tied Colgate on the road and is looking for a win... and league play begins next week.

Win tonight. Then think about what comes next.

JCrawford
10-31-2009, 01:55 PM
For any football fans just after halftime for the shoes its Union - 6 RPI - 3

? There's still 8:30 left in the 2nd quarter... not quite halftime yet

GreatLakerMohawk
10-31-2009, 01:58 PM
Boy oh boy, guy starts scoring in relative bunches and now folks gotta stress over his penalties. As far as I can tell the only game where his youthful indiscretion caused a problem was the game with the Polar Bears.

He's a feisty kid and the times I've seen him get caught with penalties are times when folks are starting crap with him, it's something he ought to be used to by now. Unlike players in the past who have gone out and been reckless with penalties, he makes up for it, sometimes in spades.

As for tonight's game, they have to be smart against Army and cannot let up. Army gave Colgate fits last night and never let Toothpaste catch a breather as each time Colgate would grab the lead, Army snatched it right back tying the game up. Army's MO this year is that they don't let up. Here's to hoping this game can go like Army's last couple of visits to HFH.

DrDemento
10-31-2009, 02:05 PM
Boy oh boy, guy starts scoring in relative bunches and now folks gotta stress over his penalties. As far as I can tell the only game where his youthful indiscretion caused a problem was the game with the Polar Bears.

He's a feisty kid and the times I've seen him get caught with penalties are times when folks are starting crap with him, it's something he ought to be used to by now. Unlike players in the past who have gone out and been reckless with penalties, he makes up for it, sometimes in spades.

As for tonight's game, they have to be smart against Army and cannot let up. Army gave Colgate fits last night and never let Toothpaste catch a breather as each time Colgate would grab the lead, Army snatched it right back tying the game up. Army's MO this year is that they don't let up. Here's to hoping this game can go like Army's last couple of visits to HFH.

In all my years of following RPI hockey I can state without hesitation that Army comes in as the best conditioned team we see-they never let up and you pay a price for playing them. You may beat them, even beat them by a wide margin-but they make you pay a physical price for every shift. We will no doubt be more talented than they are this year-but we will have to match their physical play.

FlagDUDE08
10-31-2009, 02:05 PM
In speaking of goals, Polacek has a 2-goal game. Pirri has a 2-goal game.

Who gets the first hat trick this year?

hawthr
10-31-2009, 02:10 PM
Patrick needs a hat trick, just so I can use that line.

Realistically, I say Jerry or Brandon first.

blocker
10-31-2009, 02:13 PM
In all my years of following RPI hockey I can state without hesitation that Army comes in as the best conditioned team we see-they never let up and you pay a price for playing them. You may beat them, even beat them by a wide margin-but they make you pay a physical price for every shift. We will no doubt be more talented than they are this year-but we will have to match their physical play.

The best conditioned team in division one without a win?:D

GRussinko
10-31-2009, 02:19 PM
? There's still 8:30 left in the 2nd quarter... not quite halftime yet

At actual halftime, RPI down 13-3 as they are unable to get anything going on offense or defense. Penalties absolutely killing the Engineers at all the wrong times and a long drive to end the half ends with a missed 24 yard field goal attempt. Gonna have to step up their game in the second half or Union will be taking the shoes back this year.

FlagDUDE08
10-31-2009, 02:20 PM
Patrick needs a hat trick, just so I can use that line.

Realistically, I say Jerry or Brandon first.

I'd be fine with that as well, hawth. We haven't heard much from Pat this year. However, never doubt 19, it will come through in the clutch.