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Snively65
11-07-2019, 08:34 PM
Blackburn played bottom six minutes in 11 of the first 12 games last season, too. It was a point of discussion at the time. His only goal of the first ten games, in 2018-19, was in the opener at CC - the one game (of the first 12) he played in the top six (with Grasso and BVR)...

He finally forced their hand scoring in each game against Miami and played first or second line the rest of the season. He tied Crookshank for the team lead in goals over the final 26 games, when finally given his due...

He seems to be back in the doghouse (to at least some degree) to start this season. Honestly, it just seems that the staff favors other players in the top six and donít believe in him as one of their best scoring options. He grabbed that role in spite of this last season and he needs to do it again this season. UNH needs double digit goals from Blackburn if theyíre thinking of making an NCAA run, IMO...

Something seems very strange to me here. Last season, Liam was one of only three UNH players to score double-digit goals, and tied Naz and Angus to lead team with 23 points. Season before, Liam was the only player to score double-figure goals, and was second on team with 21 points. And, his freshman year he scored 9 goals, for 18 points, of course overshadowed by freshman classmate Grasso, who benefited from time on the first PP unit with TyK. The freshman from Liam's class who has disappeared is Fregona, playing only in 10 games each of the past two seasons after playing in 31 games his first year. This whole thing is weird, weird, weird.

Dan
11-07-2019, 09:11 PM
Something seems very strange to me here. Last season, Liam was one of only three UNH players to score double-digit goals, and tied Naz and Angus to lead team with 23 points. Season before, Liam was the only player to score double-figure goals, and was second on team with 21 points. And, his freshman year he scored 9 goals, for 18 points, of course overshadowed by freshman classmate Grasso, who benefited from time on the first PP unit with TyK. The freshman from Liam's class who has disappeared is Fregona, playing only in 10 games each of the past two seasons after playing in 31 games his first year. This whole thing is weird, weird, weird.

The alternative is that they actually believe in Blackburn so much that they think he can score 10+ goals no matter who he plays with and are hoping to develop depth of scoring lines. Iím not sure thatís the case either - to me he seems like one of their better scorers IF heís playing with some of their other top talent, so get him on a line with top-six line mates ASAP...

It is a strange situation to figure and two years in a row raises some questions for sure...

ó-

Just in case it interests anyone (not that it necessarily should - but it excites me), Iím off on a last minute roadie and will be catching games at Minnesota-Duluth (vs Denver) and North Dakota (vs Miami) for the first time this week. On top of that, North Dakota will be state 49 for me. Followed up with streaming UNH/UMass on Sunday, somewhere along the Great Plains or lost in a National Park. Nice little weekend...

Snively65
11-07-2019, 10:19 PM
The alternative is that they actually believe in Blackburn so much that they think he can score 10+ goals no matter who he plays with and are hoping to develop depth of scoring lines. Iím not sure thatís the case either - to me he seems like one of their better scorers IF heís playing with some of their other top talent, so get him on a line with top-six line mates ASAP...

It is a strange situation to figure and two years in a row raises some questions for sure...

ó-

Just in case it interests anyone (not that it necessarily should - but it excites me), Iím off on a last minute roadie and will be catching games at Minnesota-Duluth (vs Denver) and North Dakota (vs Miami) for the first time this week. On top of that, North Dakota will be state 49 for me. Followed up with streaming UNH/UMass on Sunday, somewhere along the Great Plains or lost in a National Park. Nice little weekend...

Ha, ha, Dan. Someone needs to pull the "number of arenas visited" thread out of the archives so that you can add these to your list. :-) Safe travels to the northern tier. I have been to the southwest corner of North Dakota to stand on the state's high point.

sonar
11-08-2019, 08:08 AM
Yes, gilded company for Gildon in those two. Langway also played his two years at UNH at 18-20 years old.

Langway also played linebacker on a post season qualifying UNH football team. Hard to believe i actually saw those games, but the wheel does turn doesn't it ....

wildcatdc
11-08-2019, 08:36 AM
The alternative is that they actually believe in Blackburn so much that they think he can score 10+ goals no matter who he plays with and are hoping to develop depth of scoring lines. Iím not sure thatís the case either - to me he seems like one of their better scorers IF heís playing with some of their other top talent, so get him on a line with top-six line mates ASAP...

It is a strange situation to figure and two years in a row raises some questions for sure...

ó-

Just in case it interests anyone (not that it necessarily should - but it excites me), Iím off on a last minute roadie and will be catching games at Minnesota-Duluth (vs Denver) and North Dakota (vs Miami) for the first time this week. On top of that, North Dakota will be state 49 for me. Followed up with streaming UNH/UMass on Sunday, somewhere along the Great Plains or lost in a National Park. Nice little weekend...

Duluth is a great little town. We have a big operations site up there so Iíve been there many times. Really good people, MAD about their Bulldogs. Enjoy your trip, Dan! (Pick up some ďballroom jeansĒ at Duluth Trading on the way out of town 😄)

Dan
11-08-2019, 09:08 AM
Yes, gilded company for Gildon in those two. Langway also played his two years at UNH at 18-20 years old.

I honestly expected more pushback on this statement - especially from those who have watched UNH Hockey back into the 70ís and beyond.

Obviously Langway has a pair of Norris trophies, multiple Stanley Cups and is in the HHOF. He would easily been the career leading scorer among defenseman had he played four seasons at UNH. Heís a hard bar to reach...

As for his 18-20 year old seasons, and not to take anything away from him, it was the norm back then where as it was/is rather unusual for the times of Pesce and Gildon.

As for Pesce, he is growing into a top pair defenseman and, perhaps, one of the most underrated defenders in the entire NHL. I believe he was a very young 18 when he arrived at UNH but I donít have the numbers in front of me so someone can correct me if Iím wrong. Playing on such a deep defensive corp certainly shielded him but may have stunted his early impact as well...

Gildon has been UNHís best player for three years. Heís averaging .74 PPG already with a big year in front of him. I think his professional floor is 1-2 years in the AHL and then an extended career as a third pair defenseman and PP specialist. His ceiling is obviously much higher...

So, are these the best three defenseman in UNH history? Who else deserves mention or may, arguably, surpass any of the three...??

ó-

From an NHL perspective - both Kevin Dean and Bryan Muir had extended careers. Both won Cups. Bryan Muirís UNH career was cut short so he could play on the Canadian National Team (no small feat, clearly)...

Tim Burke, a Langway contemporary, IS the all-time leading scoring defenseman in UNH history. However, he played in a MUCH more offensive era than Gildon or Pesce and never played in the NHL. Though he has certainly carved out a nice career as an executive.

TVR is carving out an extended NHL career as a back end defender (does have a Cup) and scored 75 career points as an older defenseman at UNH. He and Gildon have identical .74 PPG marks - Gildon needs 21 points to match TVRs output (he should get there and as a notably younger player)...

Jamie Filipowicz scores 88 career points in three seasons on some of the best UNH teams to ever compete. However, he never skated in a single NHL game. I believe he is now a doctor at the U of Colorado medical center where my Aunt and Cousin work. Very impressive!

Have I missed anyone? Am I right or wrong about the top three...??

NCAA watcher
11-08-2019, 09:16 AM
https://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicalschool/departments/Anesthesiology/clinicalcare/AAlist/Pages/Filipowicz,-Jayme.aspx

congrats. I did not know this. He came to UNH as a 21 year old overage junior. Benefitted from the offensive players, and was more of a solid puck distributor.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=29344

Dan
11-08-2019, 09:44 AM
He came to UNH as a 21 year old overage junior. Benefitted from the offensive players, and was more of a solid puck distributor.
[url]http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=29344

Good points. I was in my early to mid teens in this era so may over value some players of this era due to youth. For example, I looked up Tim Murray for my last post remembering him as an Uber productive offensive defenseman and learned he really only had one big year from a points perspective...

Would the best - two-way/overall talent - from that era actually be Todd Hall? He would certainly have been the highest rated recruit coming into college. He played on two US WJC teams, but he played two years at BC, skated on perhaps the most disappointing UNH team ever (1995-96) and never made it in the NHL?

Steve OíBrien always seemed to play better than the sum of his parts for me, heís not in the conversation but he was very good for UNH around this time.

The 80ís are even hazier (Chris Grassie was my first hero athlete - but obviously he doesnít qualify for a list like this) and the 70ís never happened for me - which is why Iíd be interested in any arguments for or against other defensemen...

HockeyRef
11-08-2019, 09:56 AM
The alternative is that they actually believe in Blackburn so much that they think he can score 10+ goals no matter who he plays with and are hoping to develop depth of scoring lines. Iím not sure thatís the case either - to me he seems like one of their better scorers IF heís playing with some of their other top talent, so get him on a line with top-six line mates ASAP...

It is a strange situation to figure and two years in a row raises some questions for sure...

ó-

Just in case it interests anyone (not that it necessarily should - but it excites me), Iím off on a last minute roadie and will be catching games at Minnesota-Duluth (vs Denver) and North Dakota (vs Miami) for the first time this week. On top of that, North Dakota will be state 49 for me. Followed up with streaming UNH/UMass on Sunday, somewhere along the Great Plains or lost in a National Park. Nice little weekend...

Have a great time Dan! Sounds like a fun filled weekend! That's some great hockey you'll be seeing. Enjoy!

Snively65
11-08-2019, 10:09 AM
Good points. I was in my early to mid teens in this era so may over value some players of this era due to youth. For example, I looked up Tim Murray for my last post remembering him as an Uber productive offensive defenseman and learned he really only had one big year from a points perspective...

Would the best - two-way/overall talent - from that era actually be Todd Hall? He would certainly have been the highest rated recruit coming into college. He played on two US WJC teams, but he played two years at BC, skated on perhaps the most disappointing UNH team ever (1995-96) and never made it in the NHL?

Steve OíBrien always seemed to play better than the sum of his parts for me, heís not in the conversation but he was very good for UNH around this time.

The 80ís are even hazier (Chris Grassie was my first hero athlete - but obviously he doesnít qualify for a list like this) and the 70ís never happened for me - which is why Iíd be interested in any arguments for or against other defensemen...

How about the 1960s, Dan?

Probably the second best UNH defenseman I saw play in Durham was Brad Houston. Good luck trying to find stats on him. He played three years at UNH, opening up Snively in his senior year. Coached hockey three years and golf 28 years at Colgate, but other than that, I do not know much more. The guy had an awesome slap shot from the point; at least it seemed that way to me back then. :-)

Ned Braden
11-08-2019, 10:14 AM
Good points. I was in my early to mid teens in this era so may over value some players of this era due to youth. For example, I looked up Tim Murray for my last post remembering him as an Uber productive offensive defenseman and learned he really only had one big year from a points perspective...

Would the best - two-way/overall talent - from that era actually be Todd Hall? He would certainly have been the highest rated recruit coming into college. He played on two US WJC teams, but he played two years at BC, skated on perhaps the most disappointing UNH team ever (1995-96) and never made it in the NHL?

Steve OíBrien always seemed to play better than the sum of his parts for me, heís not in the conversation but he was very good for UNH around this time.

The 80ís are even hazier (Chris Grassie was my first hero athlete - but obviously he doesnít qualify for a list like this) and the 70ís never happened for me - which is why Iíd be interested in any arguments for or against other defensemen...

Garrett Stafford was a helluva defenseman for UNH, didn't see anyone mention him.

Also, I've used hockeydb.com for a while now and never noticed this:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/alumni.php?tmi=8644

Dan
11-08-2019, 11:27 AM
Garrett Stafford was a helluva defenseman for UNH, didn't see anyone mention him.

Also, I've used hockeydb.com for a while now and never noticed this:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/alumni.php?tmi=8644

Iíll have to take Snivleyís word on Houston and the 60ís (will look him up), but this is a very good name Iím ashamed to have overlooked. Stafford was great. He scored 81 points in 3.5 seasons at UNH and could have pushed 100 with a full senior season. He skated and moved pucks like no defenseman I had seen at UNH to that point. Great addition Ned...

In the Ďwhat could have beení files, Keith Yandle would certainly be #2 on this list had he gotten into school...

wildcatdc
11-08-2019, 11:29 AM
Garrett Stafford was a helluva defenseman for UNH, didn't see anyone mention him.

Also, I've used hockeydb.com for a while now and never noticed this:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/alumni.php?tmi=8644

Thatís really cool. A lot of long, late-night bus rides on that page! For the love of the game.

sonar
11-08-2019, 11:49 AM
I’ll have to take Snivley’s word on Houston and the 60’s (will look him up), but this is a very good name I’m ashamed to have overlooked. Stafford was great. He scored 81 points in 3.5 seasons at UNH and could have pushed 100 with a full senior season. He skated and moved pucks like no defenseman I had seen at UNH to that point. Great addition Ned...

In the ‘what could have been’ files, Keith Yandle would certainly be #2 on this list had he gotten into school...

Saw my first UNH game in 1967 and watched Graham Bruder help initiate UNH to Div.I hockey and was one of the few two year captains. If you are in the mood for a "good read" See Below.



https://www.seacoastonline.com/article/20070803/NEWS/708030408

Dan
11-08-2019, 11:49 AM
https://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicalschool/departments/Anesthesiology/clinicalcare/AAlist/Pages/Filipowicz,-Jayme.aspx

congrats. I did not know this. He came to UNH as a 21 year old overage junior. Benefitted from the offensive players, and was more of a solid puck distributor.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=29344

30 miles shy of Faribault, MN - maybe Iíll detour and check in on a potential future member of this list (5-19Ė24 in 16 GP and now up to 6-2)...

HockeyRef
11-08-2019, 01:48 PM
I honestly expected more pushback on this statement - especially from those who have watched UNH Hockey back into the 70ís and beyond.

Obviously Langway has a pair of Norris trophies, multiple Stanley Cups and is in the HHOF. He would easily been the career leading scorer among defenseman had he played four seasons at UNH. Heís a hard bar to reach...

As for his 18-20 year old seasons, and not to take anything away from him, it was the norm back then where as it was/is rather unusual for the times of Pesce and Gildon.

As for Pesce, he is growing into a top pair defenseman and, perhaps, one of the most underrated defenders in the entire NHL. I believe he was a very young 18 when he arrived at UNH but I donít have the numbers in front of me so someone can correct me if Iím wrong. Playing on such a deep defensive corp certainly shielded him but may have stunted his early impact as well...

Gildon has been UNHís best player for three years. Heís averaging .74 PPG already with a big year in front of him. I think his professional floor is 1-2 years in the AHL and then an extended career as a third pair defenseman and PP specialist. His ceiling is obviously much higher...

So, are these the best three defenseman in UNH history? Who else deserves mention or may, arguably, surpass any of the three...??

ó-

From an NHL perspective - both Kevin Dean and Bryan Muir had extended careers. Both won Cups. Bryan Muirís UNH career was cut short so he could play on the Canadian National Team (no small feat, clearly)...

Tim Burke, a Langway contemporary, IS the all-time leading scoring defenseman in UNH history. However, he played in a MUCH more offensive era than Gildon or Pesce and never played in the NHL. Though he has certainly carved out a nice career as an executive.

TVR is carving out an extended NHL career as a back end defender (does have a Cup) and scored 75 career points as an older defenseman at UNH. He and Gildon have identical .74 PPG marks - Gildon needs 21 points to match TVRs output (he should get there and as a notably younger player)...

Jamie Filipowicz scores 88 career points in three seasons on some of the best UNH teams to ever compete. However, he never skated in a single NHL game. I believe he is now a doctor at the U of Colorado medical center where my Aunt and Cousin work. Very impressive!

Have I missed anyone? Am I right or wrong about the top three...??

Watched Brett Pesce in a losing effort last night to the NYR...what a great job he does; always consistent. A good Dman can be hard to find...UNH has been blessed with many as I read these posts. When I started following it was Connor Hardawa, TvR, Knodel, and Pesce. Followed by Cleland, Wyse, Gildon, and Maas. Love the great goals that get scored but appreciate a stingy D even more. GO 'CATS!!

Darius
11-08-2019, 02:09 PM
Steve O’Brien always seemed to play better than the sum of his parts for me, he’s not in the conversation but he was very good for UNH around this time.O'Brien, Filipowicz, Bragnalo, Lind, White, Enders, Austin. The 1999 D-corps, especially the top four, will forever hold a special place in my Wildcat heart.

Snively65
11-08-2019, 04:07 PM
Iíll have to take Snivleyís word on Houston and the 60ís (will look him up), but this is a very good name Iím ashamed to have overlooked. Stafford was great. He scored 81 points in 3.5 seasons at UNH and could have pushed 100 with a full senior season. He skated and moved pucks like no defenseman I had seen at UNH to that point. Great addition Ned...

In the Ďwhat could have beení files, Keith Yandle would certainly be #2 on this list had he gotten into school...

But for those pesky summer courses 3000 miles away from Durham with lack of advising oversight.

Also, maybe someone can find some stats on Dude Thorn, who played forward for the Cats around when Snively Arena opened.

deltabravo62
11-08-2019, 07:13 PM
Getting back to Blackburn, it has been kind of a weird start to the season for him. I didn't see his play in the Miami trip or the Bentley games so I picked up on him at Merrimack and BU this year. His game has been a little off to start the year, where I feel like (and I seem to think Souza has mentioned) that he relies on his ability to see the game as much or more than his natural skills it seems like he is a little behind to start off. If we rewind to last years thread in the first 5-7 games he was in this same "doghouse" on the 4th line for unexplained and to some (including myself) unfathomable reasons. Maybe the demotion was an attention getter as it did work out that way last year when he was then punched into the top six and went on to a pretty decent season.

I like his game but he has been a slow starter in two of his three complete seasons. I'm looking for him to get his rhythm back and as was previously mentioned become the net front puck hound that mashes in 10-15 goals from the area of the blue paint.

As for Max Gildon, I have often been a critic of his game mostly because I felt the mistakes were from overconfidence on his or his coaches part. I must say that while his offensive numbers are off the chart early on I am more impressed by his defensive awareness improvements. This is not to take away from the staggering G/A numbers and the percentage of team goals he is involved in, I'm just seeing a much more complete player and it is a joy to watch. His abilities carrying the puck out of the zone were well documented but he has tightened up on the miscues that were glaring in his first two seasons here. If it is our coaching staff that is helping him to refine his undeniable talent level, that would be a great selling point to talented players on the recruiting trail going forward. I'm not going to compare him to past players that I have never watched, we have enough historians here who can make those comparisons for me.

Greg Ambrose
11-08-2019, 10:37 PM
Langway also played linebacker on a post season qualifying UNH football team. Hard to believe i actually saw those games, but the wheel does turn doesn't it ....

I think I have this right that Langway played in a 1AA playoff game in Montana on Saturday, flew back with the team on Sunday, and suited up for a hockey game against RPI on Monday. This was in 1977 I think.

I donít go back to Brad Houston but Iíve seen every defenseman whose played at UNH since the Ď70-Ď71 season. Back in those days there wasnít much defense as Iím sure Snively will agree. In fact, back then Charlie Holtís primary requisite for a defenseman was his ability to carry the puck up through center ice and into the zone. In his time he had at least these guys, all who played forward in the NHL or WHA, play defense because of those skills - Guy Smith, Gordie Clark, Dave Lumley, Bruce Crowder, Andy Brickley, and Jeff Lazaro. Of the real defensemen back then, Tim Burke was the best. He had played defense at Melrose High and took the responsibility seriously. An All American, in a different era he definitely would have had a decent NHL career.

After that, the names kind of fly by. Kevin Dean for sure, Steve Morrow, no one mentioned Todd Hall, a transfer from BC, Tim Murray could move the puck, Filipowicz (nice to hear about him now, he and his parents were great people), Steve OíBrien, Christian Bragnalo was underrated, Garrett Stafford was real good but his off ice issues prevented him from being an All American, Brian Yandle was a second team All American twice, Pesce, TVR. And Brad Flashians, who was All American in 2008 and forsook hockey to go to Wall Street. Anyway, for a program that has emphasized offense over defense for the most part over the years, UNH has had their share of good ones. They are certainly the strength of the team so far this year.