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slowe
07-09-2019, 09:26 PM
With all the fun of conference realignment Iíll just put this here.

Penn club hockey announces endowment with an eye towards eventual varsity transition

https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/07/penn-hockey-endowment-club-ice-varsity-bonachea-siegel-alumni-ivy-league-ncaa

Ok so if you read the article there is no official university support. Itís just some alumni trying to get it going. They say itís a ten year goal and theyíre trying to build momentum. The stadium isnít the problem though. There are apparently some upcoming renovations that will supposedly make the current one D1 ready. That is usually the hardest part. So yeah in reality this isnít different than a lot of club teams wishing for D1.

I guess Iíll hit the ten year snooze button to see if the east will ever feel the westís realignment pain...

ExileOnDaytonStreet
07-09-2019, 09:33 PM
How bad could it ever get out east? An Ivy/Non-Ivy ECAC split would be about as simple and consequence-free of a shift as you could see.

Two autobid sized conferences form, itís not like thereís a delicate balance of huge and tiny programs there as it isÖ there really isnít anything analogous to the nWCHA/NCHC/B1G dichotomies that exist out west.

Whatís the worst that happens there, the ECAC poaches an AHA school or two?

joecct
07-09-2019, 09:39 PM
Class of '23 was a D1 barn back in the 70s. I saw a 12-10 game there in 1976.

----

If the ECAC split occurs, the Empire Collegiate Hockey Conference will form. Quinny can go to HEA.

Sean Pickett
07-09-2019, 10:27 PM
Penn club hockey announces endowment with an eye towards eventual varsity transition

https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/07/penn-hockey-endowment-club-ice-varsity-bonachea-siegel-alumni-ivy-league-ncaa

Ok so if you read the article there is no official university support. Itís just some alumni trying to get it going. They say itís a ten year goal and theyíre trying to build momentum. The stadium isnít the problem though. There are apparently some upcoming renovations that will supposedly make the current one D1 ready. That is usually the hardest part. So yeah in reality this isnít different than a lot of club teams wishing for D1."As described in Siegel and Bonacheaís plan, originally entitled ĎVision 2025í, in order to reach D-I status, the Quakers will first have to file an application to play in the American Collegiate Hockey Associationís Division I, then move up to the NCAA ranks. Most teams begin in D-III before moving to D-I as an Independent before joining a conference."

I don't know if Siegel and Bonachea are purposely lying, but every part of those sentences is wrong. The writer of the article should have done a little research instead of just accepting what others wrote at face value.

Sean Pickett

Russell Jaslow
07-10-2019, 07:23 AM
With all the fun of conference realignment I’ll just put this here.

Penn club hockey announces endowment with an eye towards eventual varsity transition

https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/07/penn-hockey-endowment-club-ice-varsity-bonachea-siegel-alumni-ivy-league-ncaa

Ok so if you read the article there is no official university support. It’s just some alumni trying to get it going. They say it’s a ten year goal and they’re trying to build momentum. The stadium isn’t the problem though. There are apparently some upcoming renovations that will supposedly make the current one D1 ready. That is usually the hardest part. So yeah in reality this isn’t different than a lot of club teams wishing for D1.

I guess I’ll hit the ten year snooze button to see if the east will ever feel the west’s realignment pain...

I don't understand what you are getting at.

The Ivy League schools right now can break away and form their own auto-bid conference. They already have six teams. They don't need Penn to trigger anything. The Ivy League has said many, many, many times they have no desire to do this.

So, the only thing Penn would trigger is an ECAC expansion where they look for another team to keep their numbers even (can you say RIT?).

vicb
07-10-2019, 11:44 AM
Class of '23 was a D1 barn back in the 70s. I saw a 12-10 game there in 1976.

----

If the ECAC split occurs, the Empire Collegiate Hockey Conference will form. Quinny can go to HEA.

I was there also. The Clarkson dmen that game were like pylons on the ice with Penn skating all around and past them.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
07-10-2019, 11:52 AM
The Ivy League has said many, many, many times they have no desire to do this.

Have they said it many many many times? Not that Iíve been paying huge amounts of attention to this, but Iíve only ever seen rando college hockey fans on the Internet say this.

And even then, I donít even know if rando fans on the Internet have bothered to back it up with anything. Maybe saying that they talked to a coach or a booster about it, but certainly no one with actual authority on the matter.

slowe
07-10-2019, 12:19 PM
I don't understand what you are getting at.

The Ivy League schools right now can break away and form their own auto-bid conference. They already have six teams. They don't need Penn to trigger anything. The Ivy League has said many, many, many times they have no desire to do this.

So, the only thing Penn would trigger is an ECAC expansion where they look for another team to keep their numbers even (can you say RIT?).

Iím not sure what would happen. A 13 or 14 team ECAC seems unwieldy. That would shrink the out of conference games and scheduling would be tough. I donít see the current Ivies leaving Penn as independent and while possible, I doubt theyíd be ok with them joining the Atlantic or another conference. Penn starting D1 might tip the Ivies into leaving the ECAC. They havenít left as of now because a 6 team conference is too small and it doesnít get them anything.

If the Ivies did split off, Iím sure some Atlantic schools would lobby to join the ECAC. It would cause some temporary chaos, but Iíd think everyone would have a home so no huge deal. Just a lot of fans complaining about change.

All this said I think the current amount raised was ridiculously small so this wonít be a thing in the near future if ever. Just fun speculation.

techtodenver
07-10-2019, 01:10 PM
You can all but guarantee the ivies would push for Columbia to join up with Penn to make 8. I donít think the ivies mind being in this current version of the ECAC with good academic schools but theyíd much rather form their own league.

Berkshire BU Fan
07-10-2019, 05:38 PM
You can all but guarantee the ivies would push for Columbia to join up with Penn to make 8. I don’t think the ivies mind being in this current version of the ECAC with good academic schools but they’d much rather form their own league.

Although they often labelled themselves as the 'Ancient Eight,' even if a Penn varsity hit the ice in '25, I can't imagine Columbia ever exploring hockey. They lack a facility, and given the reality of life on CU's very compact campus and the price tag for a facility anywhere in Manhattan , I just don't think that will happen. If you think they could add something up by Wien Stadium (football), there's just not enough room.


BU/Penn hockey: fond memories of Bob Crocker.

woodenskates
07-10-2019, 06:38 PM
You can all but guarantee the ivies would push for Columbia to join up with Penn to make 8. I donít think the ivies mind being in this current version of the ECAC with good academic schools but theyíd much rather form their own league.

I think the current version of the ECAC has a good mix of schools with the necessary focus on academics. Just take a look at the number of student/athletes maintaining a GPA above 3.0 at some pretty tough schools. https://www.ecachockey.com/men/2018-19/News/All-Academic_Release_-_Men.pdf

Russell Jaslow
07-10-2019, 10:00 PM
Iím not sure what would happen. A 13 or 14 team ECAC seems unwieldy. That would shrink the out of conference games and scheduling would be tough. I donít see the current Ivies leaving Penn as independent and while possible, I doubt theyíd be ok with them joining the Atlantic or another conference. Penn starting D1 might tip the Ivies into leaving the ECAC. They havenít left as of now because a 6 team conference is too small and it doesnít get them anything.

If the Ivies did split off, Iím sure some Atlantic schools would lobby to join the ECAC. It would cause some temporary chaos, but Iíd think everyone would have a home so no huge deal. Just a lot of fans complaining about change.

All this said I think the current amount raised was ridiculously small so this wonít be a thing in the near future if ever. Just fun speculation.

All good points and all possibilities.

Split-N
07-11-2019, 08:35 AM
...BU/Penn hockey: fond memories of Bob Crocker.

Bob Crocker built the Penn program to a point where it had become something of a national power in the few years of its existence before being unceremoniously, and with little warning, "terminated--with extreme prejudice" in the middle of the 77-78 season. I still remember Penn playing out the season with the "Penn" name on their jerseys covered over. It was not a pretty sight. And to their everlasting credit, those players didn't just roll over and hold a pity party. They played with an edge and give it everything they had right to the end.

One of the things I found striking in the "Pennsylvanian" article is that the Penn Hockey people and the AD seem to be singing from two totally different sheets of music. The hockey interests say the endowment is for D1 varsity hockey while the AD seems to imply that it's to support the existing club program.

So don't hold your breath waiting for the return of Penn hockey. But that being said, Penn does not lack for deep pocketed, influential, and consequential alumni. If enough of them want varsity hockey, it likely would happen.

Columbia remains very much a longshot. Facility issues explained in an earlier post plus a pervasive and historical indifference toward intercollegiate athletics.

UncleRay
07-11-2019, 02:35 PM
$20,000 down, $49,980,000 to go!!

ExileOnDaytonStreet
07-11-2019, 03:01 PM
They have a rink. Itís (separately from the endowment) getting a renovation.

Do people really think that $50M is required here?

Spartanforlife4
07-11-2019, 04:10 PM
What was the reason for Penn eliminating hockey?

Or for Columbia never starting a team? Or I guess continuing a team, it looks like they had a team in the early 1900s.

Split-N
07-11-2019, 05:31 PM
What was the reason for Penn eliminating hockey?....


Now I have to try and cut through 40+ years of cobwebs. But IIRC, the "official" reason was budget cuts. Now, a pillar of the Ivy League crying poor didn't resonate any better then than it would now. But the supposed "real" reason was that the senior administration at the time apparently wasn't very big on intercollegiate sports to begin with and wanted to drop everything down to club status. So it cut athletics funding across the board with only football and basketball escaping relatively unschathed. (There was also an undercurrent that Penn basketball, an off-and-on national power in those days, wasn't thrilled about the new (and very popular) hockey program giving it in-season revenue-producing competition.) So given the budget situation and Penn hockey being the new kid on the block, it was the easiest ox to gore.

So far as Penn hockey making a return, see my comment in Post #13. But one thing that would work in Penn's favor is the fact that a D-1 venue is already in place so no need to include that in calculating startup costs. Still, don't hold your breath.

I know very little about Columbia other than how to spell it. But unlike Penn, it does not have an existing facility that can be converted to hockey use and little or no room on campus on which to build one. If a (longshot) program were to start up. it would almost certainly have to play at an off-campus location.

Dutchman
07-11-2019, 09:01 PM
https://www.columbiahutchmen.com/
https://perec.columbia.edu/content/ice-hockey-mens

The men's Columbia University College Ice Hockey team is a club sport that competes in the American Collegiate Hockey Association (ACHA) against teams throughout the Tri-State area. It is a competitive, full-contact league. Additionally the team competes in a weekend tournament against other Ivy League club teams. We welcome players of all skill levels. Graduate and undergraduate students are encouraged to contact us.

kdiff77
07-12-2019, 08:38 AM
You can all but guarantee the ivies would push for Columbia to join up with Penn to make 8. I donít think the ivies mind being in this current version of the ECAC with good academic schools but theyíd much rather form their own league.

There is no chance Columbia would even consider adding a team. They won't even explore men's lacrosse, which would be far easier to accommodate since their football/soccer stadiums are both turf and the Ivy League plays its tournament there anyway (plus, they already have a women's team). To build a 3,000-seat ice hockey arena in Manhattan just isn't feasible. Columbia's focus is not, has never been, and likely never will be on expanding athletics.

UncleRay
07-16-2019, 04:50 PM
They have a rink. Itís (separately from the endowment) getting a renovation.

Do people really think that $50M is required here?

It's what they were quoted as targeting in the article.