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Jack McDonald
04-22-2019, 11:49 AM
Congrats to the cities, arenas and host for your selection as sites for the 2020 & 2021 regionals

Could not agree more with the great story by Ben Feree: https://www.collegian.psu.edu/sports/men_hockey/article_75a02d46-648b-11e9-aad1-dfbd56bf5226.html

Since we we were able to successfully expand the men's D-I tournament from 12 to 16 teams, I have been campaigning for years that the NCAA Regionals MUST be at the sites of the highest four seeds. They have earned the right to host after playing 30+ games

I agree with Ben that the regionals should be played at the site of the highest seeds. More Fans, More $$$, Great Atmosphere and only one three teams travel, meaning less expenses! There were tons of empty seats in the MHOK and MBBall early rounds and it looks terrible on TV. Also it is not fair to the fans who buy season tickets at the #1 seeds, only to have the most important game(s) of the year be hundreds of miles away. I would think we should get ESPN to chime in on this too, as they did the best job they could hiding all the empty seats.

And maybe (just maybe) we could use this additional revenue to invest in adding even more teams to the NCAA tournament

* #1 Seeds have earned the right to host after 30+ games
* Most all NCAA sports (Except MBB) have high seeds host regionals.
* Pro Sports - Only the Super Bowl is NOT at Highest seed
* Not fair to #1 Seeds to be on neutral ice
* Less Expenses (only three teams (not 4) travel)
* More Fans, Bands, Cheer, Ice Dancers
* More Revenue
* Better Atmposhere
* Better for Season Ticket Holders of #1 Seed
* Better for TV
* Promote need to upgrade and/or replace older facilities on college ice hockey campuses

joecct
04-22-2019, 11:53 AM
Just to be sure, there would be 4 regionals at the campus rinks of the top 4 seeds? And they'd be single elimination (3 games).

All for it. But travel costs probably be higher.

J.D.
04-22-2019, 12:09 PM
How do we know that every arena is capable of hosting 4 teams? And all these multi purpose facilities will keep that weekend available? Plus you would have very short notice for those schools who are hosting. While this will probably never happen, let's say one of the Alaska schools has a miraculous season (hey look at UMass)...they are going to host a regional? I don't think on campus sites is a bad idea. I just think it's more complicated than a lot of people think.

Bonin21
04-22-2019, 12:18 PM
If you can't host it moves on to the next seed. That's the school's problem to figure out.

The Zlax45
04-22-2019, 12:24 PM
How do we know that every arena is capable of hosting 4 teams? And all these multi purpose facilities will keep that weekend available? Plus you would have very short notice for those schools who are hosting. While this will probably never happen, let's say one of the Alaska schools has a miraculous season (hey look at UMass)...they are going to host a regional? I don't think on campus sites is a bad idea. I just think it's more complicated than a lot of people think.

UMass has other events in their arena too like Harlem Globetrotters, Disney, Pup Patrol, etc that might have the building booked

chickod
04-22-2019, 12:37 PM
Congrats to the cities, arenas and host for your selection as sites for the 2020 & 2021 regionals

Could not agree more with the great story by Ben Feree: https://www.collegian.psu.edu/sports/men_hockey/article_75a02d46-648b-11e9-aad1-dfbd56bf5226.html

Since we we were able to successfully expand the men's D-I tournament from 12 to 16 teams, I have been campaigning for years that the NCAA Regionals MUST be at the sites of the highest four seeds. They have earned the right to host after playing 30+ games

I agree with Ben that the regionals should be played at the site of the highest seeds. More Fans, More $$$, Great Atmosphere and only one three teams travel, meaning less expenses! There were tons of empty seats in the MHOK and MBBall early rounds and it looks terrible on TV. Also it is not fair to the fans who buy season tickets at the #1 seeds, only to have the most important game(s) of the year be hundreds of miles away. I would think we should get ESPN to chime in on this too, as they did the best job they could hiding all the empty seats.

And maybe (just maybe) we could use this additional revenue to invest in adding even more teams to the NCAA tournament

* #1 Seeds have earned the right to host after 30+ games
* Most all NCAA sports (Except MBB) have high seeds host regionals.
* Pro Sports - Only the Super Bowl is NOT at Highest seed
* Not fair to #1 Seeds to be on neutral ice
* Less Expenses (only three teams (not 4) travel)
* More Fans, Bands, Cheer, Ice Dancers
* More Revenue
* Better Atmposhere
* Better for Season Ticket Holders of #1 Seed
* Better for TV
* Promote need to upgrade and/or replace older facilities on college ice hockey campuses

So have you read any of the posts here over the last five years? I thought we pretty much established that
1) the facilities are unlikely to be able to host these events on short notice
2) not all campus sites can accommodate this event
3) hockey isn't like "most" sports.
4) all the other arguments that have been presented here ad nauseum...

EDIT: Well, obviously not as it says "Posts: 1" :)

davyd83
04-22-2019, 12:38 PM
Congrats to the cities, arenas and host for your selection as sites for the 2020 & 2021 regionals

Could not agree more with the great story by Ben Feree: https://www.collegian.psu.edu/sports/men_hockey/article_75a02d46-648b-11e9-aad1-dfbd56bf5226.html

Since we we were able to successfully expand the men's D-I tournament from 12 to 16 teams, I have been campaigning for years that the NCAA Regionals MUST be at the sites of the highest four seeds. They have earned the right to host after playing 30+ games

I agree with Ben that the regionals should be played at the site of the highest seeds. More Fans, More $$$, Great Atmosphere and only one three teams travel, meaning less expenses! There were tons of empty seats in the MHOK and MBBall early rounds and it looks terrible on TV. Also it is not fair to the fans who buy season tickets at the #1 seeds, only to have the most important game(s) of the year be hundreds of miles away. I would think we should get ESPN to chime in on this too, as they did the best job they could hiding all the empty seats.

And maybe (just maybe) we could use this additional revenue to invest in adding even more teams to the NCAA tournament

* #1 Seeds have earned the right to host after 30+ games
* Most all NCAA sports (Except MBB) have high seeds host regionals.
* Pro Sports - Only the Super Bowl is NOT at Highest seed
* Not fair to #1 Seeds to be on neutral ice
* Less Expenses (only three teams (not 4) travel)
* More Fans, Bands, Cheer, Ice Dancers
* More Revenue
* Better Atmposhere
* Better for Season Ticket Holders of #1 Seed
* Better for TV
* Promote need to upgrade and/or replace older facilities on college ice hockey campuses
Do you now have to make every team in the country make certain to have available arena dates? Minnesota State had a concert booked for Regionals weekend this year. Many teams play in municipal arenas, where concerts are booked 6 months to a year in advance. If you have to block out 3 dates and pay for them, thatís a pretty expensive risk a school has to take.

cetihcra
04-22-2019, 01:03 PM
Do you now have to make every team in the country make certain to have available arena dates? Minnesota State had a concert booked for Regionals weekend this year. Many teams play in municipal arenas, where concerts are booked 6 months to a year in advance. If you have to block out 3 dates and pay for them, thatís a pretty expensive risk a school has to take.

It'd be funny if this ever came to fruition, and the NCAA still demanded their $150k minimum take.

Another wrinkle to this concept is TV -- we all love that the regionals are on ESPN networks/streaming...that Saturday is one of the best college hockey days of the year. As-is, ESPN knows where they're going well ahead of time, has scouted the locations, assigned teams of commentators, etc. They'd surely balk at the expense of not knowing where they'll be going, not to mention the potential broadcast nightmares associated with many of the rinks in college hockey. Imagine having a national broadcast out of some of the AHC/community barns? Yikes.

r

J.D.
04-22-2019, 01:21 PM
This is making me think the only way we see on campus again is if the NCAA/coaches relent and start accepting bids for Yost, Kohl Center, the Ralph etc

Back in the early 90s when on campus sites were used, I am wondering if those arenas were more readily available to remain open for a regional weekend and didn't have other commitments booked like newer multi purpose facilities do now. Also, if you still want to use the PWR to determine who hosts...was that done back then? Or was it a committee determining who would host based on merit and also based on the ability to host? Were there situations where teams hosted by default? Where perhaps a more deserving team should have hosted but couldn't?

jjmc85
04-22-2019, 02:40 PM
Sign me up! Canít wait to see how terrible the Mullins Center Ice looks in the third period of the regional championship.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
04-22-2019, 02:50 PM
In the long run, the current system is better on many levels.

Itís been working just fine in the East. If they allow campus rinks to host, theyíll work fine in the West.

Numbers
04-22-2019, 06:17 PM
Congrats to the cities, arenas and host for your selection as sites for the 2020 & 2021 regionals

Could not agree more with the great story by Ben Feree: https://www.collegian.psu.edu/sports/men_hockey/article_75a02d46-648b-11e9-aad1-dfbd56bf5226.html

Since we we were able to successfully expand the men's D-I tournament from 12 to 16 teams, I have been campaigning for years that the NCAA Regionals MUST be at the sites of the highest four seeds. They have earned the right to host after playing 30+ games

I agree with Ben that the regionals should be played at the site of the highest seeds. More Fans, More $$$, Great Atmosphere and only one three teams travel, meaning less expenses! There were tons of empty seats in the MHOK and MBBall early rounds and it looks terrible on TV. Also it is not fair to the fans who buy season tickets at the #1 seeds, only to have the most important game(s) of the year be hundreds of miles away. I would think we should get ESPN to chime in on this too, as they did the best job they could hiding all the empty seats.

And maybe (just maybe) we could use this additional revenue to invest in adding even more teams to the NCAA tournament

Taking one by one....


* #1 Seeds have earned the right to host after 30+ games

If a person thinks there is a 'right' to host, this makes sense. However, the #1 seeds don't host the conference tournaments (most, anyway), which lends some credence to the idea there is no 'right' to host in the post season.


* Most all NCAA sports (Except MBB) have high seeds host regionals.

Aside from the 'hockey is not at all like most sports' angle, we can say this: Those sports who have high seeds host do not have 5000+ person crowds at the games and/or meets. The ones who do are MBB and WBB (sometimes). MBB uses neutral sites for ONE reason: In basketball, that size of a crowd creates energy for the home team, and the advantage is too much. There is an argument to be made that hockey is similar in that regard. The advantage of crowd seems to negate the "other sports do it this way" argument.


* Pro Sports - Only the Super Bowl is NOT at Highest seed

Those are pro sports, in which the teams either own or lease their own arenas/stadia and have complete control over said buildings.


* Not fair to #1 Seeds to be on neutral ice

There is no reason it isn't fair. "Not fair" would be forcing them to play on away ice. If the #1s are on neutral ice, they should have the advantage. They are the #1 seed, and supposedly the better team, after all.


* Less Expenses (only three teams (not 4) travel)

Incorrect. Under the current plan, the average is that something like 8 teams out of 16 fly. In this case, depending on bracketing rules (separate post coming) it would be possible that 11 would have to fly. Merely giving the top seeds home ice does not fix this. Especially when the following are potential home cities (note that they are far from large airports): Houghton, Marquette and Sault-Ste-Marie, Michigan; Orono, Maine, (Wherever UNH plays their home games), Bemidji. That's just a start, and you get the idea. The visitors would have to first fly, and then potentially drive a few hours.


* More Fans, Bands, Cheer, Ice Dancers

NCAA rules would prohibit most of these no matter where the games were played.


* More Revenue

Not sure about more revenue. The regionals now average 5000 - 6000 fans. Most home sites in NCAA hockey can't match that. And, if the entire regional is on campus, and the host loses in the first round, it's likely going to be an empty barn on day 2.


* Better Atmposhere
Only if the home team wins game one, and it's fairly good sized arena.


* Better for Season Ticket Holders of #1 Seed

No complaints here.


* Better for TV

Not if the games are in a small rink. For example, what if Clarkson hosts? I like the small schools, but can that arena really support the kind of media necessary?


* Promote need to upgrade and/or replace older facilities on college ice hockey campuses

It still takes money, and merely having a chance to host a region isn't going to magically create money.

Numbers
04-22-2019, 06:36 PM
Potential Brackets:

The question is, of course, what are the rules?

If the rules are:
A) We just go by the serpentine bracket, and make minor adjustments to avoid intraconference games, then it ends up looking different than
B) We make the 4 seed bands, but give the committee great liberty in making the bracket.

This year's field:
SCSU, UMD, Mankato, Mass
Clark, NE, QU, Denver
OSU, ASU, Corn, NoDame
Harv, Prov, BGSU, AIC

By A): SCSU v AIC; Den v OSU :: UMD v BGSU; QU v ASU :: Mankato v Prov; NE v Cornell :: UMass v Harv; Clark v NoDame
This bracket has 10 flights.
by B): It completely ends up the same because everyone has to fly to Minneapolis except the UMass region.
By Current rules: Only 8 or 9 flights. So, there is no travel savings.

Let's try it again:
2018:
SCSU, NoDame, Cornell, OSU
Den, Mankato, Prov, Mich
NE, Clark, Penn St, UMD
BU, Prince, MTU, AFA

A): SCSU v AFA; Mich v NE :: NoDame v MTU; Prov v Clark :: Cornell v BU; Mankato v UMD :: OSU v Princeton; Den v Penn St
Everyone is flying except the hosts (save BU and maybe PennSt).
B): SCSU v AFA; Mankato v UMD :: NoDame v MTU; Mich v NE :: Cornell v BU; Prov v Clark :: OSU v Prince; Den v Penn St
Better: AFA, MTU, NE, Prince, Den and PennSt? are the only ones flying
Current rules:
The committee's bracket had 6 flights.

So, you are not gaining much on average on flights or transportation.

John J. MacInnes
04-23-2019, 07:59 AM
Especially when the following are potential home cities (note that they are far from large airports): Houghton, Marquette and Sault-Ste-Marie, Michigan; Orono, Maine, (Wherever UNH plays their home games), Bemidji. That's just a start, and you get the idea. The visitors would have to first fly, and then potentially drive a few hours.



This argument is wrong, because the NCAA charters all flights in the tournament. There are commercial airports within 20 miles of each of these sites mentioned where those flights would land.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
04-23-2019, 08:59 AM
The fact that the vast majority of home rinks canít even hold enough fans to match an underwhelming regional in the current format is all one really needs to know.

Yes, the ones that can hold larger crowds would be awesome, but they are the exception, not the rule. And until the blue bloods start dominating again, that will continue to be an exception.

TigerFan86-87
04-23-2019, 11:55 AM
Imagine having a national broadcast out of some of the AHC/community barns? Yikes.
Those are mostly gone:
Sacred Heart plays in AHL arena in Bridgeport
AIC plays in AHL arena in Springfield
Holy Cross plays in AHL arena in Worcester
Canisius plays in Harbor Center
Bentley - has own new arena
RIT - has own relatively new arena
Army, Air Force, Mercyhurst, Robert Morris - I can't speak to the quality of their facilities in this context, but know they are definitely not community barns.
Niagara has their own facility that I know is sub-standard for an event like this and for TV.

LtPowers
04-23-2019, 12:30 PM
Army, Air Force, Mercyhurst, Robert Morris - I can't speak to the quality of their facilities in this context, but know they are definitely not community barns.
Niagara has their own facility that I know is sub-standard for an event like this and for TV.

Army and Air Force have arenas on par with the HarborCenter (Canisius). Mercyhurst's is on par with Niagara's. Robert Morris plays at what is technically a community rink.

None of those six arenas -- and not Bentley's either -- holds even half the attendance Regionals usually attract. Even RIT's would be smaller than usual.


Powers &8^]

Ed Trefzger
04-23-2019, 12:34 PM
Those are mostly gone:
Sacred Heart plays in AHL arena in Bridgeport
AIC plays in AHL arena in Springfield
Holy Cross plays in AHL arena in Worcester
Canisius plays in Harbor Center
Bentley - has own new arena
RIT - has own relatively new arena
Army, Air Force, Mercyhurst, Robert Morris - I can't speak to the quality of their facilities in this context, but know they are definitely not community barns.
Niagara has their own facility that I know is sub-standard for an event like this and for TV.

Only Sacred Heart and AIC have facilities that meet the current requirements for a regional, which includes 5,000 minimum capacity. Plus you need 75 seats for media in the press box. Not sure if those could even meet that.

Only 25 of 60 home arenas are 5,000 or above in capacity: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14_8ogJRFoC-dxqkVi_JN1hHmNlfo8ZvxkcZXBsNUrNs/edit?usp=sharing

ExileOnDaytonStreet
04-23-2019, 02:30 PM
And only 11-14 teams in any given season average more than 5000 fans/game in any given season.

Greg Ambrose
04-23-2019, 03:24 PM
Why not do the hockey tournament the way lacrosse does it. First round is at the rink of the higher seeds. You could schedule that on a Tuesday, followed by super regionals played on Saturday and Sunday. It might have prevented St. Cloud from losing yet again.