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manurespreader
07-16-2019, 04:44 PM
its complicated but with how close BGSU was to making the NCAAs on a couple occasions as an At-Large bid, playing UAH 4 times and winning might have hurt them just enough compared to playing someone better and going 4-0, 3-0-1, or 3-1 would have...
I'm hoping the formula gets tweaked a bit. I think you need a bigger bonus for winning an away game, especially a non conf away game.

gfmorris
07-16-2019, 04:49 PM
its complicated but with how close BGSU was to making the NCAAs on a couple occasions as an At-Large bid, playing UAH 4 times and winning might have hurt them just enough compared to playing someone better and going 4-0, 3-0-1, or 3-1 would have...

If you're wanting to apply something akin to sensitivity analysis to it, yeah, substituting one team in for another but not changing the output does help, but you'd have to do something probabilistic to determine how likely that is.

I will note that UAH's conference wins have gone up every year while their OOC has I think regressed. That's not terribly helpful for the league.

GFM

MTUHuskies
07-16-2019, 05:10 PM
its complicated but with how close BGSU was to making the NCAAs on a couple occasions as an At-Large bid, playing UAH 4 times and winning might have hurt them just enough compared to playing someone better and going 4-0, 3-0-1, or 3-1 would have...

But without the AK Schools, I would assume the WCHA will go to a balanced schedule of playing the other 7 teams 2H/2A for 28 league games. Would they then basically do away with the "designated rival"? BGSU may still have to play UAH on the last weekend, but what does that matter if they play everyone 4 times? And we don't need to pick on UAH, somebody has to be the bottom, it likely could have been FSU last season and could be anyone next season. Even the Nacho has Colorado College the last few years.

Shirtless Guy
07-16-2019, 05:16 PM
But without the AK Schools, I would assume the WCHA will go to a balanced schedule of playing the other 7 teams 2H/2A for 28 league games. Would they then basically do away with the "designated rival"? BGSU may still have to play UAH on the last weekend, but what does that matter if they play everyone 4 times? And we don't need to pick on UAH, somebody has to be the bottom, it likely could have been FSU last season and could be anyone next season. Even the Nacho has Colorado College the last few years.

It will be interesting to see if they go with 28 or 24 games...because of their inability to win NC, I would guess 28...not sure I'd pick that because it really limits variety but its the best way for them to get 14+ home games a year.

MTUHuskies
07-16-2019, 05:36 PM
It will be interesting to see if they go with 28 or 24 games...because of their inability to win NC, I would guess 28...not sure I'd pick that because it really limits variety but its the best way for them to get 14+ home games a year.

I would like to see them have a balanced schedule. That is the only reason I would like a 28 league games. I think it would do the NCAA well if there were more NC games. It would be nice to see eastern teams more often and there are still old WCHA teams I'd like to see in Houghton as well.

Too bad the NCAA doesn't increase the allowable number of games. If they gave exemptions for making the Alaska trip, why can't they just add two games to the season now that it won't be a benefit of going to Alaska?

Shirtless Guy
07-16-2019, 05:46 PM
I would like to see them have a balanced schedule. That is the only reason I would like a 28 league games. I think it would do the NCAA well if there were more NC games. It would be nice to see eastern teams more often and there are still old WCHA teams I'd like to see in Houghton as well.

Too bad the NCAA doesn't increase the allowable number of games. If they gave exemptions for making the Alaska trip, why can't they just add two games to the season now that it won't be a benefit of going to Alaska?

you will likely never see the hockey season # of games increased because NCAA hockey is already one of the longest seasons if not the longest season for NCAA.

MTUHuskies
07-16-2019, 05:49 PM
you will likely never see the hockey season # of games increased because NCAA hockey is already one of the longest seasons if not the longest season for NCAA.But hockey is the best NCAA sport, so by my logic there should be more games. Actually, if they gave extra games for AK travel, which wears more on the athletes in the first place, why can't they add 2 games to the season for everyone? There goes the NCAA not making sense again.

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davyd83
07-16-2019, 06:27 PM
But hockey is the best NCAA sport, so by my logic there should be more games. Actually, if they gave extra games for AK travel, which wears more on the athletes in the first place, why can't they add 2 games to the season for everyone? There goes the NCAA not making sense again.

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Many teams had the option of playing 38 games with the Alaska/Hawai’i exemptions. It was not used very often. Coaches preferred the bye week instead.

woodenskates
07-16-2019, 06:29 PM
But hockey is the best NCAA sport, so by my logic there should be more games. Actually, if they gave extra games for AK travel, which wears more on the athletes in the first place, why can't they add 2 games to the season for everyone? There goes the NCAA not making sense again.

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The number of allowable games is agreed amongst teams from many different leagues and perspectives. I am sure that the some of the ECAC schools would be fine with fewer games along the lines of DIII. There is always a delicate balance between the athlete/student and the student/athlete.

gfmorris
07-16-2019, 08:58 PM
Many teams had the option of playing 38 games with the Alaska/Hawai’i exemptions. It was not used very often. Coaches preferred the bye week instead.

After 38 games in his first season — plus a game against USNTDP — Mike Corbett swore he'd never play 38 again.

GFM

spiehler
07-16-2019, 09:27 PM
its complicated but with how close BGSU was to making the NCAAs on a couple occasions as an At-Large bid, playing UAH 4 times and winning might have hurt them just enough compared to playing someone better and going 4-0, 3-0-1, or 3-1 would have...

Yeah, BG has crapped the bed multiple times in the last series of the season. Last season we split with UAH and finished 3rd instead of 2nd. The previous season we split and missed the tourney by some tiny amount. UAH's low RPI wasn't cause of the misses, though. BG needed to win more games.

davyd83
07-16-2019, 10:53 PM
The number of allowable games is agreed amongst teams from many different leagues and perspectives. I am sure that the some of the ECAC schools would be fine with fewer games along the lines of DIII. There is always a delicate balance between the athlete/student and the student/athlete.

The NCAA allows a max of 34 plus the Alaska & Hall of Fame Game exemptions. There may be an exemption for the Icebreaker as well.

Sean Pickett
07-16-2019, 11:14 PM
But hockey is the best NCAA sport, so by my logic there should be more games. Actually, if they gave extra games for AK travel, which wears more on the athletes in the first place, why can't they add 2 games to the season for everyone? There goes the NCAA not making sense again.You are the one not making sense. The NCAA has exemptions for teams that play games against UAA and UA_ in Alaska because of the travel issue. If your team no longer wants to travel to Alaska to play UAA and UA_ then they lose the exemptions and are limited to the 34 games.

Sean

Liveatjrl
07-16-2019, 11:25 PM
The NCAA allows a max of 34 plus the Alaska & Hall of Fame Game exemptions. There may be an exemption for the Icebreaker as well.

Correct ... AHA gets 28 Conf & 6 OOC, Big Ten gets 24 Conf & 10 OOC, ECAC non-ivy gets 22 conf & 12 OOC, ECAC ivy gets 22 conf & 7 OOC, HE gets 24 Conf & 10 OOC, NCHC gets 24 Conf & 10 OOC, WCHA gets 28 Conf & 6 OOC. If a team has more games than above, it's because they are playing an Alaska team / hall of fame game / icebreaker.

MTUHuskies
07-16-2019, 11:43 PM
You are the one not making sense. The NCAA has exemptions for teams that play games against UAA and UA_ in Alaska because of the travel issue. If your team no longer wants to travel to Alaska to play UAA and UA_ then they lose the exemptions and are limited to the 34 games.

Sean

I understand why they get the Alaska exemption. What doesn't make sense to me is that I assume they limit the schedule to 34 games because they feel the student athletes shouldn't be playing more games than that and taking more time away from school, etc. So a team makes a trip to Alaska, which takes them out of school for a lot longer and is a lot more physically taxing than your standard road trip. If they can have an extra weekend and make the Alaska trip, why can't everyone have an extra weekend anyway?

It might make more sense to me if I knew what the rationale is for setting the magic number at 34, and why deviating from that just because a team goes to Alaska is OK. Whomever explains that to me will be my favourite person for the day.

Sean Pickett
07-16-2019, 11:56 PM
It might make more sense to me if I knew what the rationale is for setting the magic number at 34, and why deviating from that just because a team goes to Alaska is OK. Whomever explains that to me will be my favourite person for the day.The NCAA game limit is irreverent in regards to the Alaska (and Hawaii) exemptions. It could be 38 games (like it used to be) and teams that travel to play UAA and UA_ in Alaska would still have those games exempted. The reason is to encourage teams in all sports to make the trip to Alaska (and Hawaii) so UAA, UA_ (and UH) will have home games. BTW, there is no "extra weekend" as all games must still be played within the sport's scheduled season length.

Sean

MTUHuskies
07-17-2019, 12:09 AM
The NCAA game limit is irreverent in regards to the Alaska (and Hawaii) exemptions. It could be 38 games (like it used to be) and teams that travel to play UAA and UA_ in Alaska would still have those games exempted. The reason is to encourage teams in all sports to make the trip to Alaska (and Hawaii) so UAA, UA_ (and UH) will have home games. BTW, there is no "extra weekend" as all games must still be played within the sport's scheduled season length.

SeanLike I said before, I understand why there is an exemption for Alaska travel.

My question is why is 34 the magic number?

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manurespreader
07-17-2019, 09:03 AM
I can't speak for the NCAA but... I used to be the director of a 20 team baseball league. We had from May 15 to Aug 1 to play our games. In order to build the schedule we started with the playoffs and worked our way back to the beginning adding in off days as required. Turned out we got to 20 league games plus playoffs.
so I'm sure there is some sort of rationale. it's not just pulled out of a hat I can assure you.

Lost_Husky
07-17-2019, 09:17 AM
Like I said before, I understand why there is an exemption for Alaska travel.

My question is why is 34 the magic number?

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I don't know the official reason, but here is a numbers/SWAG argument.

Season starts first weekend in October and regular season ends last weekend in February. For 22 possible weeks of regular season hockey. Most teams, I would assume want a bye during the first or second week of October, Finals week, 2 weeks for Christmas/New Years, one week in the second half of the season, and a floating week off for scheduling/school preferences. For argument's sake, 5 weeks off. That would give you 17 possible weekends of hockey. Multiply that by two and you get 34 games.

To make a 38 game season with current season length, a team would have to give two bye weeks. Finals/Christmas/New Year are shot because of school/family/travel home and most Universities are closed down. Bye weeks are nice for recovery/health/personal development/coaching/school work. Most teams are very green to start the season and need an early bye for coaching purposes.

MTUHuskies
07-17-2019, 09:18 AM
I can't speak for the NCAA but... I used to be the director of a 20 team baseball league. We had from May 15 to Aug 1 to play our games. In order to build the schedule we started with the playoffs and worked our way back to the beginning adding in off days as required. Turned out we got to 20 league games plus playoffs.
so I'm sure there is some sort of rationale. it's not just pulled out of a hat I can assure you.

I figured it was something like that, but that doesn't explain how the teams that get the exemptions are able to fit two more games into their schedule and the other can't?