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Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

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  • Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    I asked this question on "the other forum" and never received a response. Is anyone going to put together a PairWise ranking for DIII since the NCAA will be using it this year to select at-large teams?
    Steve
    Penn State Class of '95
    Plattsburgh State Class of '99

    If corn oil is made from corn, and vegetable oil is made from vegetables, then what is baby oil made from?

  • #2
    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

    Originally posted by spwood View Post
    I asked this question on "the other forum" and never received a response. Is anyone going to put together a PairWise ranking for DIII since the NCAA will be using it this year to select at-large teams?
    The big question about a PWR is what are the components to be used? For example, how is SOS to be measured? I doubt that the same factors will be used as in the DI PWR. If the factors are known, it is pretty easy for someone to do.
    2007-2008 ECAC East/NESCAC Interlock Pick 'em winner
    2007-2008 Last Person Standing Winner,
    2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
    2016-2017 Last Person Standing Winner

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    • #3
      Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

      Originally posted by NUProf View Post
      The big question about a PWR is what are the components to be used? For example, how is SOS to be measured? I doubt that the same factors will be used as in the DI PWR. If the factors are known, it is pretty easy for someone to do.
      I hear you.

      But, if the D-1 PWR is employed, it'll shake-out almost identically to the Regional RPI. (And, nearly to the KRACH too, usually, which of course is a better metric than either of the former. )
      Last edited by Fishman'81; 12-05-2018, 10:00 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

        Originally posted by NUProf View Post
        The big question about a PWR is what are the components to be used? For example, how is SOS to be measured? I doubt that the same factors will be used as in the DI PWR. If the factors are known, it is pretty easy for someone to do.
        And if the NCAA doesn't disclose this, then there is no transparency, which is their stated purpose for changing to a Pairwise, right? I guess this was kind of my point in asking the question. I knew the components and weighting haven't been publicized yet.
        Steve
        Penn State Class of '95
        Plattsburgh State Class of '99

        If corn oil is made from corn, and vegetable oil is made from vegetables, then what is baby oil made from?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by spwood View Post
          And if the NCAA doesn't disclose this, then there is no transparency, which is their stated purpose for changing to a Pairwise, right? I guess this was kind of my point in asking the question. I knew the components and weighting haven't been publicized yet.
          The NCAA D1 side never publishes a PWR. The various web sites do. It so happens that the USCHO/CHN pwrs mirror the committee's charter.

          On the NC women's side, Grant (TonytheTiger) has the most accurate PWR.
          CCT '77 & '78
          4 kids
          5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
          1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

          ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
          - Benjamin Franklin

          Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

          I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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          • #6
            Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

            USCHO will after an "x" number of games are played. Keep your eye out for it.
            Russell Jaslow
            [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
            U.S. College Hockey Online

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            • #7
              Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

              Originally posted by joecct View Post
              The NCAA D1 side never publishes a PWR. The various web sites do. It so happens that the USCHO/CHN pwrs mirror the committee's charter.

              On the NC women's side, Grant (TonytheTiger) has the most accurate PWR.
              The DI factors are known and disclosed for both genders. If we know the factors, anybody with a computer can figure it out. I would assume that the factors would be similar to what is published for the other DIII sports, but applied as a PWR instead of having the committee use the smoke filled room in its process. If that is the case, then the question becomes how will RNK work, since that is part of the DIII criteria.
              2007-2008 ECAC East/NESCAC Interlock Pick 'em winner
              2007-2008 Last Person Standing Winner,
              2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
              2016-2017 Last Person Standing Winner

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              • #8
                Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

                Originally posted by NUProf View Post
                The DI factors are known and disclosed for both genders. If we know the factors, anybody with a computer can figure it out. I would assume that the factors would be similar to what is published for the other DIII sports, but applied as a PWR instead of having the committee use the smoke filled room in its process. If that is the case, then the question becomes how will RNK work, since that is part of the DIII criteria.
                The "RNK" farce should not in any way factor-in to a true PWR. Otherwise, why attempt making the process appear objective via yet another artificial process in the first place..? Do the powers that be consider the fans so clueless as to think that s*** will flush?

                My opinion -and I don't know what D-3 has planned- is that we'll see a transparent and easily verifiable PW this season, a la D-1. There would be no reason in the world to trot-out another BS smokescreen, when they already have a perfectly cynical and fungible one in place.
                Last edited by Fishman'81; 12-06-2018, 09:54 PM.

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                • #9
                  Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

                  Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                  The "RNK" farce should not in any way factor-in to a true PWR. Otherwise, why attempt making the process appear objective via yet another artificial process in the first place..? Do the powers that be consider the fans so clueless as to think that s*** will flush?

                  My opinion -and I don't know what D-3 has planned- is that we'll see a transparent and easily verifiable PW this season, a la D-1. There would be no reason in the world to trot-out another BS smokescreen, when they already have a perfectly cynical and fungible one in place.
                  I don't know why people are throwing in RNK. I always thought it was going to be a straight up PWR just like D1. I believe your last paragraph is correct and the way it's going to be done.
                  Russell Jaslow
                  [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                  U.S. College Hockey Online

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                  • #10
                    Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

                    Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
                    I don't know why people are throwing in RNK. I always thought it was going to be a straight up PWR just like D1. I believe your last paragraph is correct and the way it's going to be done.
                    It's all explained in this NCAA memo which is found linked on the D-III men's hockey championships page at the NCAA: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/cha...ot_Program.pdf

                    As Russell noted, USCHO will have D-III men's and women's PWR based on the D-I algorithm very early in 2019.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

                      Originally posted by Ed Trefzger View Post
                      It's all explained in this NCAA memo which is found linked on the D-III men's hockey championships page at the NCAA: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/cha...ot_Program.pdf

                      As Russell noted, USCHO will have D-III men's and women's PWR based on the D-I algorithm very early in 2019.
                      Here is the relevant quote from the memo which should give pause

                      As you know, the PairWise system calculates rankings based on a comparison matrix that applies an equal weight to the selection criteria to compare each team to all other teams.
                      What has not been made clear is what the selection criteria are. I support the change. My point is that the official selection criteria include RNK and there is not indication that this is not still the case. That is my only concern
                      2007-2008 ECAC East/NESCAC Interlock Pick 'em winner
                      2007-2008 Last Person Standing Winner,
                      2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
                      2016-2017 Last Person Standing Winner

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NUProf View Post
                        Here is the relevant quote from the memo which should give pause



                        What has not been made clear is what the selection criteria are. I support the change. My point is that the official selection criteria include RNK and there is not indication that this is not still the case. That is my only concern
                        If D1 is any guide
                        RPI
                        H2H
                        COP

                        RPI is the tiebreaker.
                        CCT '77 & '78
                        4 kids
                        5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                        1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                        ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                        - Benjamin Franklin

                        Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                        I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

                          Originally posted by joecct View Post
                          If D1 is any guide
                          RPI
                          H2H
                          COP

                          RPI is the tiebreaker.
                          My point is that nobody has said that.
                          2007-2008 ECAC East/NESCAC Interlock Pick 'em winner
                          2007-2008 Last Person Standing Winner,
                          2013-2014 Last Person Standing Winner (tie)
                          2016-2017 Last Person Standing Winner

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NUProf View Post
                            Here is the relevant quote from the memo which should give pause



                            What has not been made clear is what the selection criteria are. I support the change. My point is that the official selection criteria include RNK and there is not indication that this is not still the case. That is my only concern
                            You need to see appendix A. That’s where they say the details are.
                            Russell Jaslow
                            [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                            U.S. College Hockey Online

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                            • #15
                              Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?

                              Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
                              You need to see appendix A. That’s where they say the details are.
                              In addition to appendix A, USCHO has confirmed that the formula will be identical to D-I.

                              It's about time that the NCAA tournament field and pairings was not manipulated. Maybe the retirement of a prominent coach is part of that.

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