Big Ten > NCHC

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Subscribed. How did I miss this gem?

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

I would say simply that Minnesota sports fans are spoiled.

Twin Cities has been, I think for decades now, the smallest metropolitan area with all the major league sports. Twins and Vikings compete with Gopher football for fans attentions in the fall. Some go to watch the Gopher women's VB team even as that team has consistently ranked among the Top 5 in attendance for almost 2 decades now. In the winter the Wild and T-Wolves compete with Gopher hockey and basketball and even Gopher Wrestling ranks Top 5 in national attendence, along with high school hockey and basketball being big in some parts of the Twin Cities. New Stadiums and facilities and rising salaries for coaches and players mean rising ticket prices, combined with harsh Minnesota weather, and the Twin Cities actually offering alot of alternatives to sporting events. In some places like Duluth and Mankato and St Cloud and Bemidji, the hockey team is sometimes the only or the biggest show in town. It's the only Div 1 sport in all 4 of those places, right? Then there is traffic and parking, which has to be more of a hassle at the U than any of those places.

Combine all of those factors with Gopher Men's hockey not performing like they did in the early years of Lucia's time here, or as well as Brooks or even Woog had them playing at his peak of his career, a big contributing factor to that being the NHL's love of plucking so many Gopher players off of their roster early and Lucia's trying to adjust his recruiting in an effort to try to prevent so many early departures not always working so well. And finally, the switching up of conferences to allow the BTHC to start up ****ing off spoiled Gopher men's hockey fans to simply started choosing not to go to all of the games.

The NHL's plucking the best from the best teams early hasn't just hurt the Gophers, it's hurt all of the bluebloods, but no blueblood program has as many non-blue blood programs in their backyard to compete with for players as the Gophers. And so what have we seen? The likes of SCSU and UMD and Mankato having some of their best seasons ever, at least in the regular season. It's not rocket science.



The solution? Simply to adjust expectations. Accept the fact that fans will choose other ways to spend their money and their time, until a season comes along where the team performs well enough to be ranked among the Top 5 consistently throughout the season, or where the team AT LEAST puts out 110% effort every game and is entertaining to watch. With the improvement of programs like ND, PSU and OSU, Wisc being an old forever rival, and Michigan being somewhat of a rival, a Top 5 ranked Gopher team could fill the Arena for B1G conf games, along with games vs the likes of SCSU, UND, MnSt, BSU & UMD, esp with those programs now being capable of having highly ranked teams as well, along with some big ticket eastern teams like BC and BU. And a great coach will be needed to make that happen. This is Motzko's first season, so IF he is a great coach, it may just take some time before he gets his type of players into the program?

This is actually a pretty good post.

[dogs2012]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

This is actually a pretty good post.

Very good post. I've been thinking this for some time now. It shouldn't come as a surprise to Gopher fans that their team hasn't been performing over the last several years...You're seeing an equal rise in UMD, SCSU, and Mankato.

Back even as early as 2008 when I started college, the Gophers got the top recruits in the state every year and it was UMD and SCSU fighting it out for the leftovers. What remained was Bemidji's or Mankato's to have. Fast forward 10 years, and I'd argue UMD is getting the top talent in the state. Followed closely by SCSU (these really go back and forth every year). These players want to play in a quality conference and have been choosing the NCHC over the Big10.

Nobody should be surprised, how else would these other Minnesota programs be competing the way they are?

I also have a theory, I'm probably wrong, but I think a lot of Minnesota's success in the past was a byproduct of spreading out their recruiting efforts. Back years ago, UMD and SCSU had great "grinder" players, the Ryan Lasch's of the world. Maybe biased here, but I think a lot of these players come from outside the metro area. The Gophers needed the Aaron Ness's of the world, the guys who have played pond hockey since they were 3. The Gophers had success because they got the cream of the crop for both, they got the "grinders" from Northern Minnesota AND they got the blue chip players from the metro that have been in develop programs since they were 5. Combined, they were very successful. I think now, you're seeing the Gophers miss those "grinder" players and are relying heavily on the blue chippers. Unfortunately, those blue chippers are now spread out amongst 4 teams and they can't rely on it anymore.

[UMD21]

I would say simply that Minnesota sports fans are spoiled.

Twin Cities has been, I think for decades now, the smallest metropolitan area with all the major league sports. Twins and Vikings compete with Gopher football for fans attentions in the fall. Some go to watch the Gopher women's VB team even as that team has consistently ranked among the Top 5 in attendance for almost 2 decades now. In the winter the Wild and T-Wolves compete with Gopher hockey

Denver is smaller and has the 5 major sports as well. They’re more spoiled though since they actually get championships, not to mention the mountains. DU still probably has more butts in the seat than Mariucci on any given weekend **** CC might even too

[gopher wes]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Very good post. I've been thinking this for some time now. It shouldn't come as a surprise to Gopher fans that their team hasn't been performing over the last several years...You're seeing an equal rise in UMD, SCSU, and Mankato.

Back even as early as 2008 when I started college, the Gophers got the top recruits in the state every year and it was UMD and SCSU fighting it out for the leftovers. What remained was Bemidji's or Mankato's to have. Fast forward 10 years, and I'd argue UMD is getting the top talent in the state. Followed closely by SCSU (these really go back and forth every year). These players want to play in a quality conference and have been choosing the NCHC over the Big10.

Nobody should be surprised, how else would these other Minnesota programs be competing the way they are?

I also have a theory, I'm probably wrong, but I think a lot of Minnesota's success in the past was a byproduct of spreading out their recruiting efforts. Back years ago, UMD and SCSU had great "grinder" players, the Ryan Lasch's of the world. Maybe biased here, but I think a lot of these players come from outside the metro area. The Gophers needed the Aaron Ness's of the world, the guys who have played pond hockey since they were 3. The Gophers had success because they got the cream of the crop for both, they got the "grinders" from Northern Minnesota AND they got the blue chip players from the metro that have been in develop programs since they were 5. Combined, they were very successful. I think now, you're seeing the Gophers miss those "grinder" players and are relying heavily on the blue chippers. Unfortunately, those blue chippers are now spread out amongst 4 teams and they can't rely on it anymore.

I went off on this in the Minnesota season thread, I'll try to keep it shorter here. I don't necessarily disagree with your points, I just don't think recruiting is that simplistic. It's really easy to say on paper that the Gophers need more grinder types or that they recruit too many entitled kids from Edina. Well guess what, the first time a Gopher coach goes after a grinder type kid and misses out on a blue chip recruit who ends up going to UND or UMD or SCSU (and has success), they're going to get ripped to no end. The other thing with recruiting is how young they are having to go after some of these kids. Some are going to plateau, some are going to regress to the mean, and others will regress below the mean. It happens, there are recruiting misses all the time, they just seem to get magnified in cases like Minnesota with hockey because they should theoretically be getting the cream of the Minnesota recruiting crop. Recruiting isn't an exact science. It comes down to who fits into your program, who you think is a good fit in the lockerroom, and what positions need to be filled. It's tough.

Clearly UMD, SCSU, and Mankato are doing a much better job of recruiting as things sit currently. I don't think anyone could deny that and keep a straight face. Like I said, I just don't think your points are as simplistic as you are trying to make them sound. JMHO.

[dogs2012]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

I went off on this in the Minnesota season thread, I'll try to keep it shorter here. I don't necessarily disagree with your points, I just don't think recruiting is that simplistic. It's really easy to say on paper that the Gophers need more grinder types or that they recruit too many entitled kids from Edina. Well guess what, the first time a Gopher coach goes after a grinder type kid and misses out on a blue chip recruit who ends up going to UND or UMD or SCSU (and has success), they're going to get ripped to no end. The other thing with recruiting is how young they are having to go after some of these kids. Some are going to plateau, some are going to regress to the mean, and others will regress below the mean. It happens, there are recruiting misses all the time, they just seem to get magnified in cases like Minnesota with hockey because they should theoretically be getting the cream of the Minnesota recruiting crop. Recruiting isn't an exact science. It comes down to who fits into your program, who you think is a good fit in the lockerroom, and what positions need to be filled. It's tough.

Clearly UMD, SCSU, and Mankato are doing a much better job of recruiting as things sit currently. I don't think anyone could deny that and keep a straight face. Like I said, I just don't think your points are as simplistic as you are trying to make them sound. JMHO.

That's fair. Like I said, I'm probably wrong in my assumption but that's what I've seen through my objective lens. The way I see it, there may be only 10 blue chip players in the state (example), and in the past I think the Gophers would get 6-8 of those 10 players. I think that helped them weather early departures or deal with "missed" prospects that don't live up to the hype. Today, I think they probably get closer to 2-3 of those 10 players. Which means if they miss on 1 or 2, you get what you have today. Over a 4 year period, 8-12 solid players. Which, being honest, is where UMD/SCSU/Mankato were for YEARS. That's why we all had to build up talent over 3-4 years and make a single run at the playoffs before going back into re-tooling mode.

[SJHovey]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

"actually get championships"?? You must be referring to pro sports, right? Which almost no one in here cares about. DU has only 1 more Title in Men's hockey than Minnesota has over the past 20 years, right?

And you can ski here in Minnesota, too. So not sure how you think your having mountains is relevant? And you can ski any day of the week, right?

And you may have all the major league sports there in Denver, but outside of the hockey team, what do you have for college sports competition? In any sport, including hockey? CC has been a non-factor for what, at least 6-7 years now, and doesn't in any way compare to the combination of UMD, SCSU, Mankato and Bemidji, not to mention UND right on our border as well. Do I have to roll out the numbers? I can.

DU has the most NCAA championships in skiing, iirc, and also has an excellent lacrosse team.

[St. Clown]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

"actually get championships"?? You must be referring to pro sports, right? Which almost no one in here cares about. DU has only 1 more Title in Men's hockey than Minnesota has over the past 20 years, right?

And you can ski here in Minnesota, too. So not sure how you think your having mountains is relevant? And you can ski any day of the week, right?

And you may have all the major league sports there in Denver, but outside of the hockey team, what do you have for college sports competition? In any sport, including hockey? CC has been a non-factor for what, at least 6-7 years now, and doesn't in any way compare to the combination of UMD, SCSU, Mankato and Bemidji, not to mention UND right on our border as well. Do I have to roll out the numbers? I can.

Are you also going to break out the ruler and your wang?

[First Time, Long Time]

Says the clown with nothing to measure? Hey, not bragging about myself, just the school I'm a fan of. SO... sure, let's break out the rulers and measure UMn's accomplishments vs basically any other college out there. Michigan would measure up pretty favorably overall. They Ivy's would measure up favorably academically of course. But Denver? nope. SCSU? lmmfgdao!!!

And the obsession continues...
But remember folks... He had to check the schedule and standings and had no idea hockey had started again...
Let's also not forget this putz didn't even go to MN.. Too stupid to get in... (Cue another life post no one wants to read)
Dubbers Dubbers Dubbers... No one missed you.

[dogs2012]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

I agree Gopher Wes, recruiting is not that simplistic, and Lucia got ripped for OVER recruiting when guys left too early, and then he got ripped for UNDER recruiting when he tried to adjust and go after guys he hoped might stick around longer. And you make great points about having to go after younger and younger players.

And I'll keep this short because I've said plenty about this in the past, but the NHL's robbing the Gophers of so many players has to be taken into account. You claim that UMD and SCSU and Mankato are doing a better job of recruiting??? Really? Couldn't it be that the NHL hasn't yet started to go after Mankato players, and only recently has started to go after SCSU's and UMD's? And SCSU has done what to prove their recruiting is better? Won in the regular season? So what? Post season is all that matters. And last year, UMD only beat out the Gophers by what fraction of a percent to get into the tourney? But what, their getting in and then going on a run shows that their recruiting has been so much more successful? Come on. Sports, any sport, every sport, is a game of fractions of inches. An inch is all that is needed for a team to NOT get a first down on 4th down in football, turning the ball over the other team, and sometimes in the last minute, thus ending the game. A basketball bouncing right instead of left off a rim could be the difference between the winning shot going in and it not being the winning shot. Same with hockey, a puck can bounce right instead of left, depending on a fraction of an inch difference and end up in the goal or not in the goal, deciding the outcome of a game that decides the post season destination of the team, just like it did for the Gophers and UMD last season.

Recruiting really can't be pointed to as the reason UMD won a title last year and UMn sat at home and had to watch them do it.


I mean, in part it can, but in sports, sometimes it's just about dumb luck going in one team's favor and not in another's.



5 or 10 years from now, if things keep going like they are going now, it will be teams like UMD or maybe SCSU that are being robbed by the NHL of their best players and are struggling to make the NCAA tourney.

How long did Denver need to recover and get to the Frozen Four after their back to back run??? Every blue blood team has suffered from this NHL factor, and the evidence of this can be seen in the NCAA tourney results the past 10 years or the past 20 even.


Just look at this year's Top 20 rankings. Where are the blue blood programs??? None in the Top 5. Few in the Top 15.


The NHL has leveled the playing field and it's a different game now for ALL blue bloods. Incredible coaching is going to be needed for any blue blood program to do well against whatever non-blue blood program happens to have a roster filled up with experienced Seniors and Juniors that have played together for years and developed the right chemistry to make a run THAT year.

Is this post a bump of a post from 10 years ago or? Everything you said was accurate...in 2008. In 2018? Not so much. I don't know the exact breakdown, but I'd be willing to bet UMD has had just about as many early defectors as the Gophers have over the last handful of years. Using "the NHL steals all our prospects" as an argument is I'm sorry...a joke. No, they don't. Sure, they've pulled some players from your teams, but NHL teams have admitted it is due to the lack of progress they're making in their development from UMTC. But it's not like the Gophers have 10 players pulled from their roster every year that leave early to go pro. They have a couple, just like EVERYBODY else.

[First Time, Long Time]

I didn't say I had no idea hockey had started, I said I was too busy to do more than check on how the Gophers were doing. I guess here we go again with people feeling justified and the need to manipulate and change what I posted or just to make sh1t up in order to make their conflict with me seem more justified.

And too stupid to get into UMn? lol Whatever makes you sleep better at night FTLT. I guess getting an invite from West Point indicates low intelligence? And what is your excuse? You went to where? SCSU?? Where does SCSU rank amongst the nation's schools? Does it even make the Top 1000?

Ah yes... The west point invite... How could I forget.
Again Dubbers... No one cares.
Where I went... You don't need to know as I don't feel the need to spew my life here to pump up my ego.
As for SCSU's ranking... Don't know... Don't care.
Another year and Dubbers is a moron...

[First Time, Long Time]

Yes, how could you forget? Easy, you WANTED to forget. You love hating me. You love making up fantasies about me to make your hatred seem justified. You can't stand the concept that I just might be a smart person, and/or a normal person, and/or a good person. You have Fred Derangement Syndrome, lol.

I forgot you existed Dubbers... It was not hard to do.
Then you slithered back...
And clearly have become even more delusional.

[First Time, Long Time]

And I forgot you existed, too. How wonderful. And likewise, it was extremely easy. I even traveled through St Cloud a few times, and even that didn't trigger a single thought about you or SCSU or the NCHC or even college hockey.

Why don't you make an effort to ignore me, when you can, and I WILL make an effort to ignore you, when I can?

Ooh... You traveled through cloud? How exciting...
Ignore you? You're ignorant... An idiot... And stupid too boot. Much more fun to blast you and watch you self destruct in your crazy trying to respond.
This year will be so much easier too with how badly the Gophers suck.

[First Time, Long Time]

And your stating that opinion doesn't make it true. For every poster here that thinks as you do, I can produce 100 people out there in the real world who disagree with you.


And "much more fun to blast you..."??? That shows the forum and maybe the Mods, who is the one trying to start trouble.

I'm going to try to ignore you this season. Why don't you do the same?


And does it surprise me that you need it to be "easier"? No. Difference between you and me. When I came in last year and saw how highly SCSU was ranked, I saw it as a challenge and hence, "more fun" to mess with you and other NCHC fans. But it was only fun while I believed you and others understood that what went on and was said in that topic should stay in that topic. Once I figured out you and a few others were unhinged psychotics obsessed with following me around intent on doing all you could to try to make me look bad to everyone else in the forum, then knowing how much it ****ed everyone else off who didn't frequent that B1G > NCHC made it not worth it. I didn't care that you tried to make me look bad, and was willing to have fun at my own expense and at your expense in my responses, but MY having fun is not fun when it comes at the expense of others.

What does it say about you as a person that you don't care that your desire to have fun blasting me ****es so many other people off?

Bless your heart...

[UMD21]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

OMG Dubbers.. I simply correct your claim that Twin Cities are the smallest metropolitan area with all major sports teams by pointing out Denver is considerably smaller yet has the big 5 pro sports and mountains, but you gotta argue me with that too... "I'm moving to Minnesota to go to UM so I can ski Highlands"--said nobody ever! And by championships, yes I meant professional. Broncos have been to two superbowls winning one (just in the time I've lived there), Rockies have been to a world series somewhat recently, Avs even won a cup as an expansion team.. Minnesota does not compare. And DU sadly has more hockey championships than the whole state of Minnesota. And theirs aren't the "back when few schools existed" championships like Michigan. If we're talking college sports, I don't understand your argument that Minnesota has more competition. Gopher hockey is already played on days such as Sundays so they don't have to compete with football attendance...Looks like it's worked wonders for both sports..

Since you felt it was necessary to take a shot at DU education and Colorado universities...A Big 10 education is the Olive Garden/Red Lobster of diplomas. Sure, in smallville USA telling people you went out to Olive Garden/Red lobster for a date night may sound sophisticated, but in the bigger world it's pretty pathetic to brag about. We can be fair, UMD would be the Chillis and SCSU could be a chinese buffet..haha. Comparing B1G universities to schools of the Hockey East/ECAC (NESCAC), Pac 12.... just may be best not to go there but it's too easy for you to brag about since none of their fans bother on this thread

And in regards to other sports, my favorite. Big 10 is such a power conference in sports--except for it's not at any aside from maybe wrestling which I know little about. Football? SEC and Big 12... Basketball? ACC. Baseball? IDK, probably Pac 12.. Hockey? Well, reminds me of talking to my friend from Indiana "hey at least Michigan lost in the basketball tournament"--her response "well...Big 10 hasn't won in so long, I would have rather seen them win". You know it's bad when you cheer for your rivals just so your conference feels more relevant. All the Minnesota fans cheering against UMD at the frozen four feels tantamount to a kid who didn't make the varsity team, so they go on cheering against their own school

I'm so over this B1G vs NCHC debate and am thankful this one was started by Dave K early season who disappeared to eat crow even though he claims he was being sarcastic... Honestly, I hope a school from Hockey East or ECAC or WCHA wins this year if it can't be UMD. It's so stupid. And the only thing B1G is dominant at in college hockey is their power of legislation being a power 5 conference. They will eventually use their iron fist in NCAA legislature to ammend the rulebooks to benefit themselves if it's come to it. They already had the option on the table with capping eligibility age, I am sure that comes back if they do not find success on their own

It's been *interesting* to have you back. And good to hear on the gf and I for one am glad you can come online to argue with strangers over random facts than having to take it out on your girlfriend