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Snively65
05-13-2019, 12:53 PM
Maybe I'm wrong, Scott but when '32 refers to the "kids" of those former UNH players being potential future Souza targets, my assumption was that he was including all of their players - since he did mention it in the context of many of those former players being "coaches of elite players in the area".

So I suspect he has Souza fishing from a somewhat deeper pond than these guys' direct gene pool. :)

Agreed on "kids" definition.

But, what say you, Chuck, on possible return of MBPBEGAM round this coming season in Hockey East? :-)

Scott
05-13-2019, 01:04 PM
Maybe I'm wrong, Scott but when '32 refers to the "kids" of those former UNH players being potential future Souza targets, my assumption was that he was including all of their players - since he did mention it in the context of many of those former players being "coaches of elite players in the area".

So I suspect he has Souza fishing from a somewhat deeper pond than these guys' direct gene pool. :)

Ahh...yes, I can see how that can be interpreted. Serves me right, maybe I need to lay off of the sauce on Mother's Day too. :p :D

Dan
05-13-2019, 01:25 PM
Dan

UNH will likely be competing for top 4 in hockey east this year. 2020-21 should bring us closer to annual top 4 team like in the past and hope the recruiting wins will continue. I know you think I am completely delusional, but we lost only one of our top scorers and the sophomores and freshmen are a net plus. Defense and Goalies are very good. We have 6 NCAA level defensemen. Collins, Saviano, Callendar, Abbott, Aikens, Teplitsky, Conklin and others have kids who are only 4-6 years from college hockey. Many are coaches of elite teams in the area and we can hope they will be a big plus for our future recruiting as well as they great work over the past few years. The future is bright and we certainly competed well against our former Big 4 competitors over the past 2 decades over the past few years. Deep breaths as the future is bright.

Happy Mothers Day Ref and to all other mothers.

First of all, I've never called you delusional and I don't think you are delusional. I think you are overly optimistic and perhaps too close to the program and those leading it. As a result, it sometimes seems as if you view every win, on-ice development, intangible and commitment as proof-positive that UNH is back. I think in a lot of ways you are trying to speak UNH success into existence. Be the fan you wish to be - there is nothing wrong with that. My approach is much more pragmatic - based entirely on production and what UNH needs to do to be a real contender for HE Titles and the NCAA Tournament every season...

If you want to hang your hat on the skill-sets, scouting reports and Neutral Zone rankings of UNH's young prospects as a sign of UNH's future success feel free to do so. Honestly, I think that perspective brings a nice balance to my more pragmatic approach. However, I will always put more stock in a recruits actual production against their age group, in high-level/competitive junior leagues or how they produce relative to the recruits of other schools. Its great that UNH gets a lot of 3.75-4 star recruits (according to NZ) - its less great when you look deeper and realize they rank every DI recruit between 3.75 and 4 stars. Its great when UNH recruits score close to a PPG in the NCDC or at the prep-level - its less great when you look closer and note that success in these leagues doesn't mean much for NCAA production and see that most of their age grouped peers are playing in the USHL and/or BCHL. If you are already sold on these kids, thats fair enough - I think there are questions to be answered and more work to do...

As for UNH's overall recruiting - I'd argue that to date, Souza is doing a bit better than Borek. UNH has had very good players during its recent struggles - so getting players like Stutzle and Margel doesn't change that. Where Souza has made headway is instead of rounding out rosters with the back-end of the roster kids they have recently, he is rounding it out with players like Esposito, MacAdams, Verrier and Herrmann. This is absolutely an improvement. I dont begrudge anyone who is optimistic about that improvement, but I surmise they need more talent and goal-scoring as well. I love this type of player at the bottom of the roster - I don't love this type of player playing in your top-scoring and defending roles.

You seem to think UNH has done the work or is pre-ordained to have future success. I think they have taken some steps but much work is left to be done. That is in no way more evident that your assertion that simply because former UNH players are in coaching and have children that the recruiting pipeline is full. Just about every school can make this claim regarding its alumni and we should wait to see (as Jeteye posts) if these players are even DI talents or choose UNH before we start to plan on any impact they might make in Durham. Even if they are/do - I'll be keeping an eye on their production before I anoint anyone. Plenty of players UNH had connections too have gone elsewhere. However, If they want to focus on legacies they can start with Scott Morrow (we've been beating the drum on Morrow for years already in this space - yet, he certainly seems in no rush to jump on his UNH connection and more than willing to weigh his options) and Cooper Flinton anyway - those two are at least old enough to have been scouted/offered already (more on this in a subsequent post)...

I discuss these topics regularly because I find them fascinating - not because I'm worked up or breathless. If UNH wants the benefit of the doubt from me, they're going to have to earn it. Simply improving on a last-place finish and from last-place recruiting classes is the EASY part. Taking the next step to middle-of-the-pack is much more difficult and improving to competing for HE titles is MUCH harder still. Improvement is not always linear and subtle success (and often intangible) last season does not indicate that linear and steep success is imminent. Only consistent, continued and actual success will prove anything...

That said, no one has pointed to this coming season as UNH's best roster and best potential launching pad more often than I have - but that doesn't mean success or capitalizing on potential success is a certainty, either. Yes, I expect them to compete for home-ice this season - but that doesn't mean they are on the fast-track to the top of the league. That only means that the last strong Borek class is mixing with some Souza recruits to finally (and for the first-time in a while) give them a balance of talent and experience across their roster. When some of that balance graduates or leaves Durham - will they have the recruiting classes behind them to continue any of the building? That remains to be seen, IMO...

Dan
05-13-2019, 02:27 PM
And here is one more problem UNH will now face - especially given their deliberate recruiting style and over reliance on late additions to classes...

The new NCAA recruiting rules. If anyone simply thinks these rules are good for doing right by the kids involved in the process - fair enough, to that end I agree. However, if anyone thinks delaying recruiting cycles will benefit the non-blue blood schools they’re mistaken. These are blue blood driven rule changes made to protect those schools from the dangers of poor evaluations early in the process. Little more...

Here's how schools like Providence, UMD, SCSU, etc, out recruited the perceived 'top tier' during early recruiting - they targeted and landed (not all, but a few) top kids early and had success by being first to offer, then still had plenty of room to offer the late blooming talents, the under the radar (or under-sized) skill players or pick up transfers/decommits. Early recruiting hurt the larger schools because they made mistakes in evaluations due to the nature of recruiting pre-adolescent prospects. Their rosters were full by the time development kicked in for a lot of kids...

All of that is now gone. The blue bloods will be able to wait on true and natural development before they pick off all the top prospects - they'll be fewer decommitments, less over recruiting in order to hedge their bets, etc. Delaying recruiting two-seasons will only do more to clear the picture on who the best prospects are and separate those kids from the next tiers. The late bloomers will be fewer and further between. Kids won't be jumping on first offers out of excitement or fear like they are now - you're going to have to compete for kids with a lot of offers all coming in at once. Its happening as we speak in softball...

UNH's process has often been VERY deliberate under Souza - targeting under the radar prospects and waiting for late-bloomers and decommitments (often waiting until the summer prior to arrival - which they did again this season). Those players won't be there (nearly as often) in the future. If at 16 Gildon/MacKinnon back up too much for the tastes of UW/DU - then schools like PC, PSU, OSU will be waiting with open arms. They're not on the market again at 18 without options - like they were for UNH in the past. When schools are allowed to speak to/offer recruits (after two long/additional years or evaluations) its going to be an open flood gate - an absolute feeding frenzy - and UNH better have done their homework, re-evaluated their process and be prepared to pounce and sell. Its only going to get more competitive...

C-H-C
05-14-2019, 01:38 PM
Alex Gagne (DOB: 8/12/02), a 6'3", 190 lbs., left-shot defenseman from Bedford, NH commits to @UNHMHOCKEY. Last season w/New Hampshire Avalanche U16 scored 7 goals, 42 assists in 49 games. Selected by Cedar Rapids Rough Riders 14th Round #208 Overall in 2019 USHL Phase II Draft.
Earned an invitation to the 2019 USA Hockey Select 17 Player Development Camp representing the New England District
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/510343/alex-gagne

Nick Papagiorgio
05-14-2019, 02:03 PM
Can we expect Griffin's dad to become a regular contributor/critic of Coach Souza if it doesn't work out?

I don't want to be that guy here because these were just passing comments in the thread from you and Scott via his reply to your post but... straight up, the man was not related to MV.

Personally I miss him, he was fun. My heart goes out to him. I hope he is ok.

UNH1932
05-15-2019, 11:50 AM
Sounds good CHC with size that we like.

The boys who did not come in at 18 have stated they think the USHL in 19 or 20 year old period is very helpful due to the speed factor. We have quite a few 18 year old players coming in out of prep school, Under 18 team playing in USHL and we also have had luck with the NAHL as well. The New England prep ties or NCDC 17-19 year olds have worked well in the recent past. Credit to the recruiters for their hard work this past year.

Dan
05-15-2019, 02:59 PM
WHERE ARE THEY FROM - THE LAST FIVE YEARS

United States Hockey League
Jay Camper
Mattias Cleland
Matt Dawson
Eric Esposito
Shane Eiserman
Kalle Eriksson
Maxim Gaudreault
Max Gildon
Patrick Grasso
Lucas Herrmann
Jamie Hill
Charlie Kelleher
Tyler Kelleher
Eric MacAdams
William MacKinnon
Dylan Maller
Nolan McElhaney
Ara Nazarian
Andrew Poturalski
Jason Salvaggio
Casey Thrush
Ryan Verrier
Anthony Wyse

British Columbia Hockey League
Liam Blackburn
Dylan Chanter**
Adam Clark
Dan Correale
Angus Crookshank
Grayson Downing
Justin Fregona
Cameron Marks**
Michael McNicholas**
James Miller
Nick Nonis
Joe Sacco
Chase Stevenson
Ty Taylor
Marcus Vela

Europe
Filip Engaras

Prep School
Richard Boyd
Warren Foegele*
Joe Lazzaro
Jackson Pierson*

Eastern Junior Leagues
Colin Bourque
Frankie Cefalu
Joey Cipollone**
John Furgele
Robbie Griffin*
Drew Hickey
Colin MacDonald
Chris Miller
Brett Pesce*
Harry Quast
Ryan Randall
Jamie Regan
Kyle Smith
Daniel Tirone**
Brendan van Riemsdyk
Matt Willows

North American Hockey League
Benton Maass
Mike Robinson**
Kohei Sato


* Rushed to UNH, skipping USHL/BCHL season
** Played in USHL

---

Its pretty clear where UNH has done well or has had luck (relative to the last five seasons of performance) at least done better. Outside of a handful of cases, the kids who played in the USHL/BCHL have been the best players in Durham - and that handful gets even smaller when you consider that Pesce, Foegele and Pierson (and now Griffin) all changed their junior hockey plans to arrive at UNH early. Excluding those three and their special circumstances, the entire list of (top-six/top-four) difference makers who didn't matriculate from or play in the USHL/BCHL/Europe over the past FIVE seasons - Benton Maass, Matt Willows, BVR. Three guys. Calling BVR a difference-maker may even be a bit of a stretch. While, Willows scored 27-43--70 (40 GP) at 18 in the EJHL (dominating the league) and still didn't manage to make a real impact at UNH until his junior season...

C-H-C
05-15-2019, 07:25 PM
"UNH Commit Robby Griffin: A High IQ, High Effort Player" (https://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2019/05/unh-commit-robby-griffin-high-iq-high.html)
Includes interview, video highlights, statistics, and scouting reports

Chuck Murray
05-16-2019, 12:56 PM
I don't want to be that guy here because these were just passing comments in the thread from you and Scott via his reply to your post but... straight up, the man was not related to MV.

Personally I miss him, he was fun. My heart goes out to him. I hope he is ok.

I could just as easily have been commenting on a pre-MV recruit (who actually matriculated at UNH before leaving) who went by the initials of RC. It was back in the pre-social media era, and I suspect that kid's dad was on here frequently, but never admitted it.

The old-timers will probably know exactly who I'm talking about. Maybe even you, Nick? Fun times ...

Whalers
05-16-2019, 01:40 PM
Ryan's Dad was always good for some drama in the stands. He transferred to Merrimack to finish up. I wonder where Ryan is today?

Chuck Murray
05-16-2019, 02:56 PM
Ryan's Dad was always good for some drama in the stands. He transferred to Merrimack to finish up. I wonder where Ryan is today?

Head coach of Dighton-Rehoboth Regional HS, not far from his old stomping grounds.

Nick Papagiorgio
05-16-2019, 03:57 PM
I could just as easily have been commenting on a pre-MV recruit (who actually matriculated at UNH before leaving) who went by the initials of RC. It was back in the pre-social media era, and I suspect that kid's dad was on here frequently, but never admitted it.

The old-timers will probably know exactly who I'm talking about. Maybe even you, Nick? Fun times ...

Well now that is interesting. Probably very slightly before my time. Met his girlfriend one time circa 1998ish at my friend's house party. Or at least she claimed to be.

In general, parents simply are better off not reading the internet with a kid that is a student-athlete. It's just brutal. That being said, some infamous parents have had some serious trials and tribulations on various boards. The estranged father of QB Dan Orlovsky would spend hours a day on the UConn boards back in the day as 'cubbybear' and let's just say he had a few screws loose. But it was entertaining as all heck.

C-H-C
05-21-2019, 10:24 PM
3 UNH Commits will represent Massachusetts Hockey District this summer at USA Hockey Select Camps. 2002 David Sacco and 2003s JP Turner & Nick Ring:
https://www.mahockey.org/boysplayerdev

islander98
05-22-2019, 11:00 AM
Well now that is interesting. Probably very slightly before my time. Met his girlfriend one time circa 1998ish at my friend's house party. Or at least she claimed to be.

In general, parents simply are better off not reading the internet with a kid that is a student-athlete. It's just brutal. That being said, some infamous parents have had some serious trials and tribulations on various boards. The estranged father of QB Dan Orlovsky would spend hours a day on the UConn boards back in the day as 'cubbybear' and let's just say he had a few screws loose. But it was entertaining as all heck.

I would guess that there are lots of parents on this forum following their kids from a distance while they play out their dreams. Very few will go to the pros. I think that there are some parents in all sports that would benefit from being a bit less "involved" in their child's sports. Having said that, the majority of the hockey dads that I have met are good parents who support their kids in a positive way. That is how they get to play at a higher level. And we would all be better off if we remember that the players that we feel the need to criticize are elite level players who have dedicated thousands of hours to get to this level. Maybe we should cut them some slack and focus on praise. As my momma used to say "if you can't say something nice, then...."

Nick Papagiorgio
05-22-2019, 12:25 PM
And we would all be better off if we remember that the players that we feel the need to criticize are elite level players who have dedicated thousands of hours to get to this level. Maybe we should cut them some slack and focus on praise. As my momma used to say "if you can't say something nice, then...."

No doubt. All while taking several classes a semester. I couldn't do it.

HockeyRef
05-22-2019, 02:01 PM
I would guess that there are lots of parents on this forum following their kids from a distance while they play out their dreams. Very few will go to the pros. I think that there are some parents in all sports that would benefit from being a bit less "involved" in their child's sports. Having said that, the majority of the hockey dads that I have met are good parents who support their kids in a positive way. That is how they get to play at a higher level. And we would all be better off if we remember that the players that we feel the need to criticize are elite level players who have dedicated thousands of hours to get to this level. Maybe we should cut them some slack and focus on praise. As my momma used to say "if you can't say something nice, then...."

Right on...a good thing to keep in mind, that, in the end...they are student athletes. Thanks for the timely reminder!!! :D

Chuck Murray
05-22-2019, 05:52 PM
As my momma used to say "if you can't say something nice, then...."

" play nice in the sandbox with the lil' snowflakes?!?" :confused:

C-H-C
05-30-2019, 06:11 PM
"UNH Commit Jack Ring: A Big, Speedy Forward" (https://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2019/05/unh-commit-jack-ring-big-speedy-forward_30.html)
Includes interview, video highlights, statistics and coach's assessments.

After the Whistle
06-01-2019, 01:54 PM
"UNH Commit Jack Ring: A Big, Speedy Forward" (https://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2019/05/unh-commit-jack-ring-big-speedy-forward_30.html)
Includes interview, video highlights, statistics and coach's assessments.

Mike, enjoyed reading this as usual. Jack looks like he could be a diamond in the rough. With that size he has probably always been assigned, volunteer or chosen to play defense. A year of 2 in the USHL could give us that big presence we have been looking for in front of the net. Thanks for doing this as this provides most of us with the only real info we will have prior to entry and helps give a full picture of just who they areas individuals.