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MadCityRich
03-03-2019, 06:51 PM
Side note- it also makes it all the more ridiculous that MM couldn't get along with Howie.

BB I couldn't agree more regarding coaches. The NCAA has never really embraced hockey and STILL is behind the times.

Knowing both Howie & Eaves, there are 2 enormous egos there. I'll side with Howie everyday/all day. Goaltending is a much more technical position than any other (Tim and I BOTH know it!) and Eaves couldn't handle Bill's system, I guess. The easy way out was to push him aside instead of getting along.

Just to follow up, any ideas about Tyler Herzberg? I asked about his future yesterday, but nobody seems to know.

Timothy A
03-03-2019, 10:10 PM
Knowing both Howie & Eaves, there are 2 enormous egos there. I'll side with Howie everyday/all day. Goaltending is a much more technical position than any other (Tim and I BOTH know it!) and Eaves couldn't handle Bill's system, I guess. The easy way out was to push him aside instead of getting along.

If MM and Howie had the beef, that's over and long gone. The answer to our problem is right there....TG should get Howie back. Tony always says once a Badger always a Badger and he talks about the Badger way; that is Howie.

MadCityRich
03-03-2019, 11:06 PM
If MM and Howie had the beef, that's over and long gone. The answer to our problem is right there....TG should get Howie back. Tony always says once a Badger always a Badger and he talks about the Badger way; that is Howie.


"Hope springs eternal"

It won't happen, Tim. Howie's got to be around 75 and I don't think he'd be up to it being away over 10 years. We can all just wonder what could've been.

He was the Badger's goalie coach for 36 years. Coached 7 goalies that starred in the NHL and developed 8 NCAA Division I All American’s. And Eaves pushed him out.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
03-03-2019, 11:39 PM
I thought NCAA rules about his goalie camps pushed him out. You know, since the NCAA wouldnít let us pay him.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
03-03-2019, 11:39 PM
Of course, that still raises the question of what the point is of paying Bill Butters instead of him.

Timothy A
03-04-2019, 08:18 AM
"Hope springs eternal"

It won't happen, Tim. Howie's got to be around 75 and I don't think he'd be up to it being away over 10 years. We can all just wonder what could've been.

He was the Badger's goalie coach for 36 years. Coached 7 goalies that starred in the NHL and developed 8 NCAA Division I All Americanís. And Eaves pushed him out.

It's SO frustrating knowing that MM pushed him out. I can't recall how many years they were together.

He should stop the goalie camps and get on board solely with UW. He's got is 401/SS/fat Madison teacher pension to live off of.

Wisko McBadgerton
03-04-2019, 08:38 AM
I'd love to hear from Howie's mouth that Eaves pushed him out because I never have. I've just seen and heard it suggested in the rumor mill. We do know for a fact that the NCAA changed the rules in 2008 that precluded a volunteer goalie coach from having contact with potential recruits. i.e. Howie could no longer run his camps AND be the volunteer coach. It may be that Howie then wanted to again be a paid assistant and Eaves didn't want to fire Oz or Kevin Patrick and hire Howie, but considering Oz and Patrick won a title in '06 and recruited and trained the 2010 team, I can't really blame him for that as I wouldn't have expected Howie to be the road warrior recruiters those guys were at that point in his career. Howie's the greatest, but I've never heard any factual basis for the "Eaves pushed Howie out" story from anyone that would actually know. I'd love to hear it if some one does know something beyond wild speculation about their personalities.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
03-04-2019, 08:41 AM
At his age? That time may well have passed.

Iíll reiterate my belief that the defense in front of these goalies is the issue, more so than the goalies themselves or their coaching. The stats probably donít bear this out too well in that I donít think give up a ton more SOG/game. But the quality of shots (see: the many uncovered skaters setting up in our goaliesí back side that Michigan did well to exploit this weekend) really paints a picture of our goalies being underserved by the defenses in front of them.

That said: If there isnt a way around the NCAA rule on three paid coachesÖ I donít have a good answer. Maybe Mike Valley is available again? I donít know what heís been up to since he left the Dallas Stars. Or youíd have to think that thereís someone out there thatíd be a suitable goalie coach. I love Shane Connelly, but I donít know to what extent his role (or skill set) applies to coaching.

But no matter what the answer is there, I have a hard time thinking that thereís a workable solution that doesnít involve gettin rid of Strobel. And that seems like a bridge too far.

Timothy A
03-04-2019, 09:25 AM
a bridge too far.

Great movie. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

I'd take Howie @ 75. Lots of goaltending is between the ears anyway. A guy like that can coach the goalies and PK or PP. The guy was a hockey guru, not just a goalie guru, I know all the old timers know this...

Wisko McBadgerton
03-04-2019, 10:46 AM
At his age? That time may well have passed.

Iíll reiterate my belief that the defense in front of these goalies is the issue, more so than the goalies themselves or their coaching. The stats probably donít bear this out too well in that I donít think give up a ton more SOG/game. But the quality of shots (see: the many uncovered skaters setting up in our goaliesí back side that Michigan did well to exploit this weekend) really paints a picture of our goalies being underserved by the defenses in front of them.

That said: If there isnt a way around the NCAA rule on three paid coachesÖ I donít have a good answer. Maybe Mike Valley is available again? I donít know what heís been up to since he left the Dallas Stars. Or youíd have to think that thereís someone out there thatíd be a suitable goalie coach. I love Shane Connelly, but I donít know to what extent his role (or skill set) applies to coaching.

But no matter what the answer is there, I have a hard time thinking that thereís a workable solution that doesnít involve gettin rid of Strobel. And that seems like a bridge too far.

I agree that we have given up way to many quality scoring chances to just put it all on the goalie's doorstep. Simple metrics like sv% and gga aren't really very telling measures when it comes right down to it. Defensive schemes and execution thereof for different teams have a lot to do with it. If some teams give up a lot of perimeter shots because they keep the puck to the outside, clear the net front a lot, and don't give up odd man situations, it's a given that their goalie is going to have better numbers than a team that pressures the points and limits total shots, but gives up high quality shots in the slot and odd man rushes against, regardless of comparative goalie ability.

At this point, getting Mike Valley would be like getting Joel Quenneville as an assistant. Valley is one of the premier goalie coaches in the world. Every summer 8 or 10 of the best goalies in the NHL come to his camp in Madison to work with him. Thing is, we don't appreciate the extent of what goes on behind the scenes with Granato, who is super connected in the hockey world and can call on all kinds of expertise for help and advice. We know he has people watching tape and giving feedback constantly, including Grant Standbrook. Tony is so highly regarded by so many hockey people, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn Quenneville IS actually breaking down tape, or Valley is giving notes and advice.

FWIW - Shane Connely after 3 years at Bowling Green in hockey operations, spent 3 years as an assistant for the USHL's Cedar Rapids Rough Riders and has been on both Team USA U17 and U18 staffs the last two years. So he does have some coaching experience in Juniors and somebody saw enough coaching talent in him to give him those coveted roles in Juniors and on the USA staff.

Wisko McBadgerton
03-04-2019, 06:07 PM
Just to follow up, any ideas about Tyler Herzberg? I asked about his future yesterday, but nobody seems to know.

I meant to respond earlier and say "I have no idea!"



I know he's an 02 and has spent time on TW with Mann and Roepke and Jake Oz, so he's certainly been scouted enough. He wasn't drafted in the futures draft last year by any Junior team that I know of. He'll be eligible for the Phase II draft in May so with all the exposure he's had, if he really can skate, somebody is likely to take him.

Can he really skate? Sometimes WI HS players that are heady players and good athletes that work hard, show really well, but aren't really the caliber of skater one needs to be at the next level.

I had a cousin like that - 2 pt/game HS player, state champion sprinter, great FB and Baseball player. He did stand out a lot in games as he did actually have elite acceleration and straight line speed on skates, but he did not have the edges or stick to play higher without a ton of work. Kind of kid that, had he grown up living the game and going to elite camps, probably had all the raw ability to be really good, but he had other interests too and gave it up as a pursuit eventually.

BlindBucky
03-04-2019, 11:23 PM
I'd love to hear from Howie's mouth that Eaves pushed him out because I never have. I've just seen and heard it suggested in the rumor mill.

My understanding was that Howie wanted a bigger role in the coaching scheme- specifically involvement in Power Play/Penalty Kill. Eaves wouldn't let him, so he left. I have no idea where I got that information. It could have been the old Bucky's 5th Quarter precursor, State Journal, or this forum. Not really sure.

Regarding Mike Valley- I think he is the perfect example of a part-time paid goalie coach. Mike Valley is clearly not going to commit to the UW even as a full-time assistant coach- too much other money out there. There should be some mechanism for the UW to pay him to serve as the goalie consultant. He could also serve as a similar consultant for other teams- of course his morals would never allow him to consult for the ground squirrels, ND, etc.

Wisko McBadgerton
03-05-2019, 10:27 AM
My understanding was that Howie wanted a bigger role in the coaching scheme- specifically involvement in Power Play/Penalty Kill. Eaves wouldn't let him, so he left. I have no idea where I got that information. It could have been the old Bucky's 5th Quarter precursor, State Journal, or this forum. Not really sure.

Regarding Mike Valley- I think he is the perfect example of a part-time paid goalie coach. Mike Valley is clearly not going to commit to the UW even as a full-time assistant coach- too much other money out there. There should be some mechanism for the UW to pay him to serve as the goalie consultant. He could also serve as a similar consultant for other teams- of course his morals would never allow him to consult for the ground squirrels, ND, etc.

I think that's more or less right. But the way I've always read it is that Howie wanted a promotion back to the full time staff, because how else would that work? You're actually paying Patrick and Oz and having tremendous success recruiting and developing your players with them, but you have to massively reduce one or both of their roles? Or in reality, as it's the only thing that would make sense, fire one of them in favor of Howie. I have no problem with Howie asking for a promotion given his service and the circumstances re: the NCAA rule changes. He certainly deserved the consideration and probably the job. The reality of the situation was though that Howie comes to Eaves and says "I want a promotion or I'm going to quit." So Eaves has to make a decision just like any manager has to do when faced with similar circumstances. It's a very difficult position but good managers seldom fire successful people and replace them out of loyalty to the lower guy on the totem pole, because the fact is, it's just not fair or right to whack a guy that is doing a great job for you. (Probably Kevin Patrick in this case.) Could have been the wrong decision completely, but I think 9 times out of 10 most managers are going to make a similar one when it's all said and done.

Love Howie, have no problem with him demanding more or leaving, he has to do what he thinks is right for him. Have no problem with Eaves doing what he thinks is fair and best for the team at that point in time. I just don't see how that is characterized as Eaves forcing Howie out. Howie forced the change and it didn't go his way. He's a grown up, a difficult decision was made, and I doubt he holds any grudge the way some fans seem to.

Agree 100% that being allowed to hire consultants for goalies like most Junior teams do would be great, and don't doubt at all that Valley would be thrilled to do it. He'd do it now for free if he was just allowed to. It's dumb and it hurts the NCAA goalies by not giving them access to the kind of coaching allowed in Juniors or the pros. I don't see the NCAA budging on the recruiting contact rules as policing that is half their argument for existing in the first place, but if they just considered volunteers as staff and allowed them contact with recruits, the issue would be a lot easier to resolve for most all schools as well.

Timothy A
03-06-2019, 05:02 PM
Last week Turcotte 2g 6a, Caufield 6g 3a....in 3 games.

Wisko McBadgerton
03-08-2019, 10:22 AM
Caufield sits at 97 career goals and now needs just 7 to tie Phil Kessel's career goal scoring record of 104 at the NTDP. 9 regular season games to play including a pair @ GB Gamblers Mar. 15 & 16.

Ryder Donovan's HS career came to a close last night as Duluth East fell to former 1A powerhouse St. Thomas Academy 2-1 in the State quarterfinal. Terrific, hard-hitting and fast paced game in which Duluth probably deserved a better result, but the hockey gods were just not smiling upon them. They piped a couple grade A chances in the second and lived in the Cadet end much of the third but it was just not to be. St Thomas wins their first 2AA state tournament game in their fourth try since moving up after winning 3 consecutive 1A titles. St Thomas will face Mike Vorlickey's #1 seeded Edina Hornets tonight in the semifinal. Donavan is expected to join the Dubuque Fighting Saints to close out the year.

Stars Dylan Holloway and Austin Wong were out for Okotoks first playoff game vs. the Calgary Canucks last night in the AJHL. Calgary potted the ENG at 18:22 in the third to seal a 5-2 victory.

Or did they? Just 36 seconds later, Okotoks' Mark Pasemko struck back to make it 5-3 with 1:02 remaining. Oiler's captain Kyle Gordon assisted on the play and then went back to work, scoring with just 31 seconds left to make it 5-4. Then, improbably, just 19 seconds later it was Gordon again, scoring the Oilers 3rd goal in 51 seconds to push it to OT. Gordon, who had just 11 goals in 60 games coming in, then, appropriately, went in unassisted to finish off the natural hat trick at 9:04 of overtime, thereby completing one of the most unbelievable comebacks ever. What a finish!

Timothy A
03-11-2019, 01:29 PM
Stars Dylan Holloway and Austin Wong were out for Okotoks first playoff game vs. the Calgary Canucks last night in the AJHL. Calgary potted the ENG at 18:22 in the third to seal a 5-2 victory.

Or did they? Just 36 seconds later, Okotoks' Mark Pasemko struck back to make it 5-3 with 1:02 remaining. Oiler's captain Kyle Gordon assisted on the play and then went back to work, scoring with just 31 seconds left to make it 5-4. Then, improbably, just 19 seconds later it was Gordon again, scoring the Oilers 3rd goal in 51 seconds to push it to OT. Gordon, who had just 11 goals in 60 games coming in, then, appropriately, went in unassisted to finish off the natural hat trick at 9:04 of overtime, thereby completing one of the most unbelievable comebacks ever. What a finish!

That was amazing to follow on twitter. Princeton had a similar comeback this last weekend.

DPlaya
03-13-2019, 02:03 PM
Looks like Caden Brown is the only UW commit on the 2019 USNTDP Evaluation Roster.

https://www.usahockeyntdp.com/news_article/show/1003409

MadCityRich
03-13-2019, 07:06 PM
Sometimes I get a bit anxious when I open this thread.

I'm afraid there's a decommit.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
03-14-2019, 06:52 AM
Give it time, MCR

Timothy A
03-14-2019, 06:58 AM
Give it time, MCR


Sometimes I get a bit anxious when I open this thread.

I'm afraid there's a decommit.

Come on guys, let's be positive! When I pop onto this thread I think just the opposite.