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UVM Cat in Texas
03-26-2018, 11:54 AM
Maybe this has been proposed before, but what would y'all think about a post-season tourney for those who don't make it into the NCAA Tourney -- something like hockey's version of the NIT? Make it the top 8 teams who are left out of the big show, and to increase interest and attendance, you could play all the games, including the semis and final, on campus sites. Good/bad idea? Feasible?

ericredaxe
03-26-2018, 12:01 PM
Most colleges struggle with attendance for meaningful games. I canít imagine they would do well for a consolation prize tourney.

chickod
03-26-2018, 12:02 PM
Maybe this has been proposed before, but what would y'all think about a post-season tourney for those who don't make it into the NCAA Tourney -- something like hockey's version of the NIT? Make it the top 8 teams who are left out of the big show, and to increase interest and attendance, you could play all the games, including the semis and final, on campus sites. Good/bad idea? Feasible?

Not so much a question of whether or not it's a good idea. Like everything else, money will be the determining factor. What makes you think it can succeed, given that we have spent the last five years talking about attendance problems? If people won't go to the NCAAs, they won't go to an "NIT" tournament. There's also too much other competition. You already have the NCAA men's and women's bball. As it is, they "moved" the Frozen Four so it wouldn't conflict with the NCAA basketball tournament. So when would you have it? You can't have it "after" that because we've ("we" meaning TV and other coverage) moved on the baseball and the spring sports. I just don't see how it's feasible and I don't think there is a market for it.

northeastern
03-26-2018, 12:04 PM
d.o.a. ..sorry.

UVM Cat in Texas
03-26-2018, 12:13 PM
Not so much a question of whether or not it's a good idea. Like everything else, money will be the determining factor. What makes you think it can succeed, given that we have spent the last five years talking about attendance problems? If people won't go to the NCAAs, they won't go to an "NIT" tournament. There's also too much other competition. You already have the NCAA men's and women's bball. As it is, they "moved" the Frozen Four so it wouldn't conflict with the NCAA basketball tournament. So when would you have it? You can't have it "after" that because we've ("we" meaning TV and other coverage) moved on the baseball and the spring sports. I just don't see how it's feasible and I don't think there is a market for it.
Good points. I was thinking playing the games in campus rinks might be enough to overcome the attendance issue. Might not make a difference in places like Boston, but in locations where college hockey is pretty much the one and only "thing" it could work. I could actually see UVM selling out for a tourney game. Maybe places like Clarkson, Cornell, Michigan Tech, etc. would too.

UVM Cat in Texas
03-26-2018, 12:14 PM
d.o.a. ..sorry.
Oh sure, I see. Now that you're an NCAA tourney team..... ;)

FlagDUDE08
03-26-2018, 01:00 PM
Not sure you need a "My team got screwed!" tournament when the selection is objective.

buoldtimer
03-26-2018, 02:47 PM
I have a very vague memory of just such a tournament, many, many years ago (late '70's, early '80's). Sean?

UncleRay
03-26-2018, 03:23 PM
Maybe this has been proposed before......Maybe?? :rolleyes:

Some genius comes up with this brilliant idea for the first time every year. In fact, I've already seen it this year. I'm just too lazy to track it down.

At the end of regular season play, who has been eliminated from the national tourney except Arizona? The bottom two in the WCHA? Again, too lazy to look it up. Everybody else plays in their conference tournament for a seed in the national tourney.

UVM Cat in Texas
03-26-2018, 04:28 PM
Maybe?? :rolleyes:

Yes, maybe. Also too busy to look it up. :rolleyes:


At the end of regular season play, who has been eliminated from the national tourney except Arizona? The bottom two in the WCHA? Again, too lazy to look it up. Everybody else plays in their conference tournament for a seed in the national tourney.
In basketball teams can win their conference tourney and go to the Big Dance. That said, they still have an NIT. So your "analysis" is relevant to the topic, how?

Sorry for the response, but if you're gonna get smarmy, at least bring something to the table.

Ralph Baer
03-26-2018, 04:44 PM
I have a very vague memory of just such a tournament, many, many years ago (late '70's, early '80's). Sean?

1974. I remember it quite well. :)

It was a failure and one now might even be worse.

semis
UVM 3 Lake State 2,
Duluth 6 St Louis 3

consolation St Louis 7 Lake State 5
championship Duluth 7 UVM 4

UVM was an ECAC-2 school then.

It was called the National Invitational Hockey Tournament (NIHT).

buoldtimer
03-27-2018, 11:59 AM
1974. I remember it quite well. :)

It was a failure and one now might even be worse.

semis
UVM 3 Lake State 2,
Duluth 6 St Louis 3

consolation St Louis 7 Lake State 5
championship Duluth 7 UVM 4

UVM was an ECAC-2 school then.

It was called the National Invitational Hockey Tournament (NIHT).

Ralph, do you remember any other detail?

Whose idea was it? Where was it held? Attendance?

joecct
03-27-2018, 12:11 PM
Ralph, do you remember any other detail?

Whose idea was it? Where was it held? Attendance?

I THINK it was at the Gutt.

TigerFan86-87
03-27-2018, 12:25 PM
I could actually see UVM selling out for a tourney game. Maybe places like Clarkson, Cornell, Michigan Tech, etc. would too.
Except that as opposed to UVM, those three teams made the NCAA's this year. Cornell makes it quite often and may turn down a bid to the Butt-Hurt Hockey Tournament.
:D

UVM Cat in Texas
03-27-2018, 12:27 PM
I THINK it was at the Gutt.
Actually, according to this little bio of Ted Castle, a player on the UVM team that year, it was held in Duluth, MN.
https://uvmathletics.com/hof.aspx?hof=208

UVM Cat in Texas
03-27-2018, 12:44 PM
Except that as opposed to UVM, those three teams made the NCAA's this year. Cornell makes it quite often and may turn down a bid to the Butt-Hurt Hockey Tournament.
:D
Right, realized that after posting it. Was just trying to think of a few schools where hockey is king. Maybe a school like Cornell would turn it down, but then again it'd probably be up to the players, and college players like playing hockey. There'd also have to be some encouragement from the NCAA -- i.e., some kind of request that eligible schools do their best to help out a fledgling tournament.

buoldtimer
03-27-2018, 01:15 PM
Right, realized that after posting it. Was just trying to think of a few schools where hockey is king. Maybe a school like Cornell would turn it down, but then again it'd probably be up to the players, and college players like playing hockey. There'd also have to be some encouragement from the NCAA -- i.e., some kind of request that eligible schools do their best to help out a fledgling tournament.

You're joking, right?

Sean Pickett
03-27-2018, 01:17 PM
1974. I remember it quite well. :)

It was a failure and one now might even be worse.

semis
UVM 3 Lake State 2,
Duluth 6 St Louis 3

consolation St Louis 7 Lake State 5
championship Duluth 7 UVM 4

UVM was an ECAC-2 school then.

It was called the National Invitational Hockey Tournament (NIHT).


Ralph, do you remember any other detail?

Whose idea was it? Where was it held? Attendance?The first mention I found of it in TIHN (The Intercollegiate Ice Hockey Newsletter) was the 26 February 1974 issue:

N.I.H.T to Feature Top Teams in Post-Season Championship Competition
The first annual NIHT will be held March 14, 15, and 16 at the Duluth (Minn) Arena-Auditorium coincident with the NCAA Hockey Championship dates at Boston Garden.
A four-member selection committee, consisting of an eastern coach, a western coach and two members of the NIHT Board of Directors, will select two eastern teams and two western teams to participate in the tournament. A field of four outstanding teams, exclusive of those competing in the NCAA event, is expected.
The NIHT, which will be co-sponsored by the city of Duluth and the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame, has received responses from 45 colleges indicating an interest in participation if invited. Schools that have expressed an interest include all of the WCHA teams except Michigan State and most of the eastern schools except for Ivy League members, where an apparent conflict in obtaing University approval prior to the scheduled dates may preclude their possible participation.

In the final issue (dated April 1974) of TIHN for the season associate editor Arthur Kaminsky mentioned the NIHT in his column Open Net:

About the NIHT - what a terrible execution of a good idea. The organizers displayed absolutely no promotional talent at all. Not a word about the tournament emanated from Duluth all season, players of many teams knew nothing of its existence, and most college hockey people just forgot about it. So it was no surprise when early March came around and no one wanted to trek to Duluth. No financial inducements were given and since the coaches of the top clubs that were possible invitees (UNH, RPI, Wisconsin) hadn't been sounded out in advance, a last minute bid logically fell on deaf ears. It was embarrassing that only one eastern club even wanted to go. Hopefully, next year, the event will be well publicized, possible entrants more effectively sounded out in advance and maybe it can be turned into the first class event which all college hockey people would welcome.

I'm having issue with ProQuest, so I'm currently not able to check The Boston Globe for further articles.

Sean

Middle Street
03-27-2018, 01:40 PM
In 1974 only 4 teams made the NCAA tournament correct? Having an alternate 4 team NIT tournament at that time would allow you to invite some very good competition.

Now that we have 16 teams in the tournament, having an NIT with 4-8 more teams just doesn't seem all that appealing. Would the event be any more interesting than the ice breaker or any of the current in season holiday tournaments? I doubt it.

UVM Cat in Texas
03-27-2018, 01:46 PM
You're joking, right?
Haha, keep in mind I started thinking about this a couple of days ago. It's a work in progress! :)
Guess I was thinking, like the big dance itself, the NCAA would be involved. There'd be no conflict, right? It's not like it would take away from that event. If they're not involved in any way, you're right, I certainly wouldn't expect them to encourage teams to play.