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D1/D2 scheduling alliance for 2017-18

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  • #16
    Re: D1/D2 scheduling alliance for 2017-18

    Originally posted by GTOWN View Post
    Sacred Heart is also a D1 independent, do they have to make a move as well at some point?
    Holy Cross didn't really have to. They chose to after the NEHC made it clear that they would only keep DIII members going forward. I think they should try and play a DI schedule, but Sacred Heart can probably just keep doing what they're doing if they want to.
    Frozen Four: 1998, 2018

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    The Ohio State University '18
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    • #17
      Re: D1/D2 scheduling alliance for 2017-18

      A conference made up of D1 and D2 women's teams is a legit conference for the National Collegiate Championship.

      I think HC and SH should play for a while in this conference. HC could be a big fish as opposed to a minnow in WHEA.
      CCT '77 & '78
      4 kids
      5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
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      ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
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      • #18
        Re: D1/D2 scheduling alliance for 2017-18

        Wow this is fascinating stuff.

        People need to stop asking "conference" questions. This is a scheduling agreement, not a conference. As such there's no "autobid" at play.

        Having said that, no one has yet mentioned the interesting part of this. These teams are playing 20 games between each other. That means they will (obviously) have played 20 D1/D2 games and are eligible for the NCAA tournament.

        I'm willing to bet that since they are playing in their own little scheduling "bubble" that one of them has a high enough RPI to make it interestingly close to actually getting in...
        Last edited by TonyTheTiger20; 01-18-2017, 04:59 PM.
        Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
        Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
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        • #19
          Re: D1/D2 scheduling alliance for 2017-18

          Tony

          But it should be a conference! The possibility of a weak team from a weaker conference getting an AQ is going to throw the other leagues into a tizzy.
          Last edited by joecct; 01-18-2017, 11:34 PM.
          CCT '77 & '78
          4 kids
          5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
          1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

          ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
          - Benjamin Franklin

          Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

          I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by joecct View Post
            Tony

            But it should be a conference! The possibility of a weak team from a weaker conference getting an AQ is going to through the other leagues into a tizzy.
            If they don't create a conference they don't get an AQ. I don't see any of these teams getting an at large bid either. I hope nobody loses any sleep over this. Lol.

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            • #21
              Re: D1/D2 scheduling alliance for 2017-18

              Originally posted by shelfit View Post
              If they don't create a conference they don't get an AQ. I don't see any of these teams getting an at large bid either. I hope nobody loses any sleep over this. Lol.
              The way RPI works, one of them can absolutely can get an at-large bid. If one team is solidly better than the other teams (which is absolutely possible if not probable), then they will absolutely be in the at-large conversation. Since they would only be playing each other, RPI won't be able to determine how good that group of teams are relative to the rest of the teams (not that it does a good job of that anyway, but I digress).

              For example, I just plugged into my calculator having Holy Cross go 4-1 in its first round-robin against the rest of these teams, with the other teams having 3-2 or 2-3 records, give or take, and Holy Cross made the tournament. Not only that, but St. Anselm was knocking on the door as well. The others were scattered throughout the field.

              1 Wisconsin 0.6679
              2 St. Lawrence 0.6314
              3 Minnesota-Duluth 0.6119
              4 Clarkson 0.6106
              5 Minnesota 0.6041
              6 Holy Cross 0.5938
              7 Boston College 0.5910
              8 Robert Morris 0.5879
              9 St. Anselm 0.5704
              10 Quinnipiac 0.5561
              11 Cornell 0.5541
              12 North Dakota 0.5459
              13 Princeton 0.5428
              14 Vermont 0.5368
              15 Colgate 0.5359

              (Note that other team's RPI's don't match what the rest of the teams have right now because I swapped out Merrimack for Post since they aren't yet built into my calculator and deleted Merrimack's games against everyone else.)

              So, expand that out to a full season with Holy Cross going 16-4, and that should be plenty good enough to make it into the tournament. Ditto to anyone else.

              One of thes teams making the tournament next year is not only a possibility, but it's a realistic one.
              Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
              Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
              Twitter: @Salzano14


              Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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              • #22
                Re: D1/D2 scheduling alliance for 2017-18

                Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                The way RPI works, one of them can absolutely can get an at-large bid. If one team is solidly better than the other teams (which is absolutely possible if not probable), then they will absolutely be in the at-large conversation. Since they would only be playing each other, RPI won't be able to determine how good that group of teams are relative to the rest of the teams (not that it does a good job of that anyway, but I digress).

                For example, I just plugged into my calculator having Holy Cross go 4-1 in its first round-robin against the rest of these teams, with the other teams having 3-2 or 2-3 records, give or take, and Holy Cross made the tournament. Not only that, but St. Anselm was knocking on the door as well. The others were scattered throughout the field.

                1 Wisconsin 0.6679
                2 St. Lawrence 0.6314
                3 Minnesota-Duluth 0.6119
                4 Clarkson 0.6106
                5 Minnesota 0.6041
                6 Holy Cross 0.5938
                7 Boston College 0.5910
                8 Robert Morris 0.5879
                9 St. Anselm 0.5704
                10 Quinnipiac 0.5561
                11 Cornell 0.5541
                12 North Dakota 0.5459
                13 Princeton 0.5428
                14 Vermont 0.5368
                15 Colgate 0.5359

                (Note that other team's RPI's don't match what the rest of the teams have right now because I swapped out Merrimack for Post since they aren't yet built into my calculator and deleted Merrimack's games against everyone else.)

                So, expand that out to a full season with Holy Cross going 16-4, and that should be plenty good enough to make it into the tournament. Ditto to anyone else.

                One of thes teams making the tournament next year is not only a possibility, but it's a realistic one.
                I don't think the selection committee has to automatically choose teams based on PairWise, so I don't see this happening. Even if it could, it shouldn't.
                "So life's a *****. What do you want to do, cry about it? " - Kara "Starbuck" Thrace

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Arafel View Post
                  I don't think the selection committee has to automatically choose teams based on PairWise, so I don't see this happening. Even if it could, it shouldn't.
                  Exactly. Strength Of Schedule in this case should read Weakness Of Schedule. It's not going to happen. Guaranteed.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by shelfit View Post
                    Exactly. Strength Of Schedule in this case should read Weakness Of Schedule. It's not going to happen. Guaranteed.
                    Then form a conference and get the AQ.
                    CCT '77 & '78
                    4 kids
                    5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                    1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                    ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                    - Benjamin Franklin

                    Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                    I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                    • #25
                      Re: D1/D2 scheduling alliance for 2017-18

                      On the men's side, back in the early days of Atlantic Hockey, I'm pretty sure the NCAA explicitly said that they reserved the right not to award them an at large bid until they played enough games against the rest of the D1 conferences to make a comparison meaningful.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Arafel View Post
                        I don't think the selection committee has to automatically choose teams based on PairWise, so I don't see this happening. Even if it could, it shouldn't.
                        I mean, I'm just going off their own explicitly written selection criteria. Play 20 D1/D2 games and you're eligible. Once eligible, here's how they're selected: x, y, z.

                        Otherwise what's the point of having a combined D1/D2 tournament if D2 teams can't be selected?

                        RPI is pretty explicitly written into the selection criteria.
                        Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                        Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                        Twitter: @Salzano14


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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Eeyore View Post
                          On the men's side, back in the early days of Atlantic Hockey, I'm pretty sure the NCAA explicitly said that they reserved the right not to award them an at large bid until they played enough games against the rest of the D1 conferences to make a comparison meaningful.
                          It says in the women's criteria that they must play 20 games against D1/D2 teams to be selected. That's exactly what they're doing.
                          Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                          Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                          Twitter: @Salzano14


                          Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                            It says in the women's criteria that they must play 20 games against D1/D2 teams to be selected. That's exactly what they're doing.
                            According to USCHO, the 3 criteria are
                            RPI
                            Common Opponents
                            Head to Head

                            If the NEWSA (New England Women's Scheduling Alliance) plays just those 20 games amongst themselves, CoP and H2H drop in comparison so the only criteria would be RPI.

                            Oh what a mess you've gotten us in, Ollie!
                            CCT '77 & '78
                            4 kids
                            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                            - Benjamin Franklin

                            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                            • #29
                              Re: D1/D2 scheduling alliance for 2017-18

                              Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                              It says in the women's criteria that they must play 20 games against D1/D2 teams to be selected. That's exactly what they're doing.
                              That's what the men's criteria said, too, but the NCAA overrode them. I was incorrect about it being Atlantic Hockey; rather, it was the AHA's predecessor the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference that was denied at-large bids that RPI said they ought to get. In 2000, Quinnipiac finished the season with the 4th best RPI in the country, but it did not get a tournament invite. In 2001, both Quinnipiac and Mercyhurst had top 10 RPIs, but neither got in.

                              I suspect that the NCAA will do the same thing in this case.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Eeyore View Post
                                That's what the men's criteria said, too, but the NCAA overrode them. I was incorrect about it being Atlantic Hockey; rather, it was the AHA's predecessor the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference that was denied at-large bids that RPI said they ought to get. In 2000, Quinnipiac finished the season with the 4th best RPI in the country, but it did not get a tournament invite. In 2001, both Quinnipiac and Mercyhurst had top 10 RPIs, but neither got in.

                                I suspect that the NCAA will do the same thing in this case.
                                Didn't you say that there was something in the criteria saying they had the ability to do so?
                                Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                                Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                                Twitter: @Salzano14


                                Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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