PDA

View Full Version : 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 [15] 16 17

shelfit
03-22-2017, 10:30 AM
Tiley vs ARD for all tourney...both had shut outs, both allowed 3 goals. Was ARD's shutout more valuable because that game was 0-0 until 16 seconds left? Was Tiley's more valuable because it was in the title game and it was 0-0, 1-0 and 2-0 during the critical parts of the game? I was surprised ARD got it. Obviously to me it is not clear cut, and I would have had no problem with Tiley getting it, but I understand ARD getting it.

Except ARD only let in 2 goals. Clarkson's 3rd goal was an empty netter. I agree that maybe the winning goalie should probably have won the all-tournament award. ARD already won the Patty Kaz, so whoever picks the all-tournament team shouldn't have felt like she should be all-tournament no matter what.

robertearle
03-22-2017, 10:49 AM
Except ARD only let in 2 goals.

.., and quite likely at the time the voting was taking place, ARD had allowed only one goal.

(Katie Burt played the best game of the weekend; maybe she should have gotten the award.)

vicb
03-22-2017, 10:57 AM
I will say you could put Katie Burts goaltending in a losing cause to Wisco into the mix but I am not gonna go there. ;) ARD was great in the Semifinal and made a couple of great saves in the final. Tiley was good enough in the semifinal to get the win and she made all the saves that were required in the final. Wisco was shooting wide a lot but I think Tiley had something to do with that. She came out to the top of the crease squared up and did not give the Wisco players much to shoot at. I'm OK with giving the award to ARD but you can be sure she would rather have what Tiley and Clarkson got (the win).

edit: did not see robertearles post prior to mine on Katie Burt :o

D2D
03-22-2017, 11:19 AM
In the FWIW category, save percentages for the game(s) played:

Peters - .840
ARD - .951
Tiley - .958
Burt - .972

Timothy A
03-22-2017, 12:52 PM
In the FWIW category, save percentages for the game(s) played:

Peters - .840
ARD - .951
Tiley - .958
Burt - .972

Peters didn't play that bad. The first goal was an ugly rebounder, but the next 2 were sniper shots that D left too much space, the 4th was a rebound/chip shot/scrum, what are you going to do. I think in that game Tiley and Peters played evenly.

Sean Pickett
03-22-2017, 01:09 PM
Yes, but that was a classic old rink, this one is relatively new. Newer rinks should conform to minimum standards.The NCAA actually has no minimum standards according to the NCAA Ice Hockey 2016-17 and 2017-18 Rules and Interpretations (http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/IH18.pdf):

1.2 Dimensions - As nearly as possible, the dimensions of the rink shall be 200 feet long and 85 feet wide. The corners should be rounded in the arc of a circle with a radius of 20 feet.

By the way, when Army's old Smith Rink opened on 10 January 1931 it was 232'x90' and the New York Times stated it was "the largest skating surface in the United States."

Sean

ARM
03-22-2017, 02:45 PM
Having voted for FF All-Tourney teams in the past, they usually ask for the ballots back so early that it excludes the last 10 minutes in the third period. Sometimes, you have to vote "Winning goaltender" because the game is still tied.

robertearle
03-22-2017, 04:46 PM
Having voted for FF All-Tourney teams in the past, they usually ask for the ballots back so early that it excludes the last 10 minutes in the third period. Sometimes, you have to vote "Winning goaltender" because the game is still tied.

Right. So at the time the ballots were voted, Desbiens had given up a single goal, while Tiley had given up three.

pokechecker
03-22-2017, 06:28 PM
so if everyone is done harping about the St. Charles arena and who was the best goalie ...

who ended up winning the freshman of the year award for college hockey, I haven't seen that

ARM
03-22-2017, 06:39 PM
who ended up winning the freshman of the year award for college hockey, I haven't seen thatWhen Cameranesi was so recognized in 2014, it was announced in April. Last year, Potomak was announced as the winner prior to the FF. Maybe it is one of those things that they get to it when they get to it?

Puckdrop14
03-23-2017, 01:22 AM
so if everyone is done harping about the St. Charles arena and who was the best goalie ...

who ended up winning the freshman of the year award for college hockey, I haven't seen that

The best goalie was Burt by a long shot. ARD was outplayed in both her games while Tiley had great and not so great moments.I suppose if one of the other 2 were a Senior, it might have made a difference as it seems that tenure weighs in to many decisions.

bluffrinkrat
03-23-2017, 07:32 AM
The best goalie was Burt by a long shot. ARD was outplayed in both her games while Tiley had great and not so great moments.I suppose if one of the other 2 were a Senior, it might have made a difference as it seems that tenure weighs in to many decisions.

Tiley was certainly the best goalie in the tournament, but ARD was outplayed in both games? Her 22 save shutout was too easy? Or was it because she almost scored a goal for BC? I think I hear the faint sound of a harp coming closer. :rolleyes:

Sean Pickett
03-23-2017, 09:43 AM
Tiley was certainly the best goalie in the tournament, but ARD was outplayed in both games? Her 22 save shutout was too easy? Or was it because she almost scored a goal for BC? I think I hear the faint sound of a harp coming closer. :rolleyes:Well, wouldn't a 22 save shutout be easier than a 41 save shutout?

Sean

shelfit
03-23-2017, 09:53 AM
Well, wouldn't a 22 save shutout be easier than a 41 save shutout?

Sean

Katie Burt clearly had the best single game performance of the weekend but Tiley obviously had the best body of work for the weekend because she walked out of there with a national championship for her efforts. There's no better argument for all tournament goalie than that! This is not a total goals against competition or anything like that. The only statistic that counts is who won the national championship and it was her!

D2D
03-23-2017, 10:16 AM
Katie Burt clearly had the best single game performance of the weekend but Tiley obviously had the best body of work for the weekend because she walked out of there with a national championship for her efforts. There's no better argument for all tournament goalie than that! This is not a total goals against competition or anything like that. The only statistic that counts is who won the national championship and it was her!
I would agree with all the points you made, with one addition to your last comment: She not only helped her team win the national championship, she shut out the other team in the championship game. You simply cannot ask a goaltender to do any more than that.

I totally agree that the Patty Kazmaier Award should have gone to Ann-Renee Desbiens, but my vote for goalie on Frozen Four All-Tournament Team would have gone to Shea Tiley.

robertearle
03-23-2017, 10:26 AM
I would agree with all the points you made, with one addition to your last comment: She not only helped her team win the national championship, she shut out the other team in the championship game. You simply cannot ask a goaltender to do any more than that.

I totally agree that the Patty Kazmaier Award should have gone to Ann-Renee Desbiens, but my vote for goalie on Frozen Four All-Tournament Team would have gone to Shea Tiley.

Once more, at the time the votes for the All-Tournament team were cast, who would be the goalie of the winning team was not known, was still very much in doubt. That, to the extent possible, should in the future change. But for the vote on Sunday, whether Tiley or Desbiens would be the goalie of the winning team was not known.

D2D
03-23-2017, 10:42 AM
Once more, at the time the votes for the All-Tournament team were cast, who would be the goalie of the winning team was not known, was still very much in doubt. That, to the extent possible, should in the future change. But for the vote on Sunday, whether Tiley or Desbiens would be the goalie of the winning team was not known.
At what point in the championship game is the team selected? If it's too early, i.e. before knowing which players would figure heavily into determining the game's outcome, it can make casting votes in favor of the right players kind of a crapshoot.

KTDC
03-23-2017, 10:46 AM
so if everyone is done harping about the St. Charles arena and who was the best goalie ...

who ended up winning the freshman of the year award for college hockey, I haven't seen that

Congrats goes to Princeton goaltender Steph Neatby

http://www.uscho.com/2017/03/23/princetons-neatby-earns-womens-d-i-rookie-of-year-nod/

bluffrinkrat
03-23-2017, 10:50 AM
Well, wouldn't a 22 save shutout be easier than a 41 save shutout?

Sean

Yes it would. My issue was with the statement that Burt "outplayed" ARD in the first game. A 22 save shutout for ARD versus 35 saves for Burt, but who also allowed the winning goal. I suppose it's debatable based on who had the more difficult saves and other factors as well. Tiley certainly had one of the greatest games ever in the NCAA tournament. No more harping from me on the goalie debate.

robertearle
03-23-2017, 10:56 AM
At what point in the championship game is the team selected? If it's too early, i.e. before knowing which players would figure heavily into determining the game's outcome, it can make casting votes in favor of the right players kind of a crapshoot.

Earlier on this thread Arlan said "Having voted for FF All-Tourney teams in the past, they usually ask for the ballots back so early that it excludes the last 10 minutes in the third period. Sometimes, you have to vote 'Winning goaltender' because the game is still tied." Somebody over the weekend posted a photo of their ballot for the men's Big Ten Tournament (I thought it was Todd Milewski, but looking at his twitter feed right now, I'm not seeing it) and the instructions at the top of the ballot said much the same thing as Arlan said; "Ballots are due before five minutes remaining in the third period" or some such (even though that game went into double-overtime).

Yes, I think such a process is silly, and should be changed. Yes, I think who gets on an all-tournament team is pretty trivial and unimportant. But within the context, just saying "the goalie of the winning team should have won the award" simply ignores the process, and what the voters did and did not know at the time they had to make their choice. At the time they had to make their choice, ARD was a completely reasonable choice to make.