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HockeyRef
12-22-2016, 01:15 PM
As did I. Perhaps all of them with 4-5 exceptions. 90% of the away games too. I have some cred also. One difference is that I continue to attend. Just because i don't have 1000 posts doesn't mean I am ignorant. Did you make the welcome home after the overtime loss to Maine. It was at 12 midnight that Sunday when they returned to Durham. I respect your history and know you are a fan, but I will continue to attend and hope. And this is the only team I can speculate at the present time.

Being a relative newbie to UNH Hockey (and hockey in general but boy have I learned alot....) I totally understand where you are coming from. I also get the frustration of the veteran fans on this board; and even in my short tenure I do know the difference/understand the past of UNH hockey success and failures. After Merrimack last season I drove home thinking how tough it is to be a fan while at the same time, how worth it is can be too. While that loss was horrendous for me, I knew I would return. In it too deep now to back out! I also believe things go in cycles; I truly do, that UNH hockey IS going to return. You know me and that hope thing...

I do enjoy the chatter about the current team, players, etc. more of course as it's my point of reference but the past was indeed glorious and worth discussing. But things have changed for UNH hockey, and for college hockey as a whole. Players have a TON of options they did not have before; playing for UNH today as a choice for top, cream of the crop players isn't what it was 20 years ago; parity in programs, more options, all figure into where a player is going to land.

That being said, seems like Souza and Co. are pulling in a few recruits that have alot of potential. That's exciting even tho we won't see it for awhile. So right now is where we are at. Alot can happen in the second half of the season. Here's to you all; past and present fans; keep the flame alive for UNH hockey! Enjoy the spirit of the season and hope to see you at the SNHU game...and beyond.

E.J. Smith
12-22-2016, 01:29 PM
Players have a TON of options they did not have before;Such as?

HockeyRef
12-22-2016, 01:59 PM
Such as?

Top college picks for hockey for one thing; the competition to land the best out there has to be enormous and the players have more than just a few 'hockey schools' to choose from as the sport has grown has it not? Avenues to get to the college game, avenues to play elsewhere instead of college; this is what I am referring to. Not all roads lead to UNH hockey as they once might have. (See below)

Those of you who have been with this for eons; you tell me why we landed players 10/20 years ago that we don't today. It can't ALL be the coaches fault... The impression I've gotten reading this board for the 3 plus years I have was that top, highly sought players once FLOCKED to UNH...not so anymore and while the downward spiral has been slow (?) it has picked up exponentially in the past 4/5 years having not been "Regional Ready"....

I'll end by saying I will be the first to tell you that my knowledge of this kind of thing is not extensive and I am not pretending otherwise. I base this on what I've gleaned by reading about recruiting and how it goes down these days as opposed to the past. Sorry you won't get much more than that from me, and as always, I welcome the info/education. ;)

Lemonade
12-22-2016, 02:48 PM
Excellent post. I think you are exactly right that in most cases success is cyclical and UNH will be back to where it belongs in the very near future. College hockey seems like it has never had such parity and all it takes is a good team that gels to make a run at it. Look at Union/Quinnipiac/Yale/Providence...in fact there has been 6 different NCAA champs in the past 6 years. UNH has a unique offering that can and should attract recruits with a great campus, great rink and FAN SUPPORT which is a huge factor thats a major draw to players. I think once Souza gets full control he will absolutely give the program a youthful shot in the arm and propel it back to national prominence in no time. They are finally landing some blue chip recruits for the future and once you get a few of them on board the rest will follow (look at BU). Good players want to play with good players.

Dan
12-22-2016, 02:53 PM
No offense, of course Ref - but this is just an excuse that has been repeated enough times that you have naturally come to consider it. Mainly by those who would absolve the coaching staff of its accountability and responsibility.

UNH wasn't a destination until Holt came in and made it one. Then it wasn't, again, until Kullen and Staff and then McCloskey arrived and revived it as a destination. Borek lost ground, recruited less talented players gradually and then lost the ones he landed.

Imagine, if recruiting had been managed better this team could include Vecchione, Masters, Masonious, Ryzcek and potentially a returning Poturalski. Imagine...

Recruiting is primarily based in effort, belief and salesmanship. A while back one mentioned Miami as a new threat - Miami only became a recruiting power when Blasi came in and made it happen. Same with Notre Dame and Jeff Jackson. Same with Providence and Leaman. Same with St Cloud and Motzko. Etc. it takes aggressive effort, selling and getting kids to reach campus. UNH coaches have simply NOT succededin doing that...

Major Junior has always existed and for every program that has risen up there is a Maine, a Michigan State, a Colorado College, a UNH that is no longer a factor.

It is not a vastly different landscape, nor is it a vastly different game/culture - it is a vastly different approach, philosophy and result from the coaches. That's it.

UConn was an also ran and now cavanaugh has them landing elite talent. Same with Omaha until Blaise. BU was great and then Parker went through an end of career lull - now with a new coach they're unstoppable. It comes down to the coaches ability to get it done or not. Anything else is just colored bubbles...

UNH has a trenendous package to sell, just as always. There is nothing that holds them back. It just hasn't happened.

None of the newcomer recruiting powers offer any more than UNH, except for Notre Dame - and that sure didn't help Dave Poulin...

We can only hope that Commesso, and not the extended droughts, are the true indication of who Souza is as a recruiter...

Nick Papagiorgio
12-22-2016, 03:04 PM
I wouldn't call this unfair, so much as I'd call it garbage. This is probably your worst post ever and that's saying something

Ah ..... Dan you could have just stopped right there!

Nick Papagiorgio
12-22-2016, 03:16 PM
They are fortunate to have played the bottom feeders in a very weak Hockey East up to now.

I sure am glad you are better at recognizing weak leagues and not specific teams! Lest I would have been "sorely disappointed" at Ford Field in 2010!! :D


The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

HockeyRef
12-22-2016, 03:16 PM
No offense, of course Ref - but this is just an excuse that has been repeated enough times that you have naturally come to consider it. Mainly by those who would absolve the coaching staff of its accountability and responsibility.

UNH wasn't a destination until Holt came in and made it one. Then it wasn't, again, until Kullen and Staff and then McCloskey arrived and revived it as a destination. Borek lost ground, recruited less talented players gradually and then lost the ones he landed.

Imagine, if recruiting had been managed better this team could include Vecchione, Masters, Masonious, Ryzcek and potentially a returning Poturalski. Imagine...

Recruiting is primarily based in effort, belief and salesmanship. A while back one mentioned Miami as a new threat - Miami only became a recruiting power when Blasi came in and made it happen. Same with Notre Dame and Jeff Jackson. Same with Providence and Leaman. Same with St Cloud and Motzko. Etc. it takes aggressive effort, selling and getting kids to reach campus. UNH coaches have simply NOT done that...

Major Junior has always existed and for every program that has risen up there is a Maine, a Michigan State, a Colorado College, a UNH that is no longer a factor.

It is not a vastly different landscape, nor is it a vastly different game/culture - it is a vastly different approach, philosophy and result from the coaches. That's it.

UConn was an also ran and now cavanaugh has them landing elite talent. Same with Omaha until Blaise. BU was great and then Parker went through an end of career lull - now with a new coach they're unstoppable. It comes down to the coaches ability to get it done or not. Anything else is just colored bubbles...

UNH has a trenendous package to sell, just as always. There is nothing that holds them back. It just hasn't happened.

None of the newcomer recruiting powers offer any more than UNH, except for Notre Dame - and that sure didn't help Dave Poulin...

We can only hope that Commesso, and not the extended droughts, are the true indication of who Souza is as a recruiter...

Like I said I do appreciate the education...and to my credit I do understand it's more than just 'parity' that has placed us where we are. (if that's what you meant by the 'excuse) I do hear what you guys have been saying... That being said tho, with the competition to land players what it is, you better believe you need to sell yourself, the program, the school...the entire package to land the 'right players' AND follow them through the admissions stuff etc etc etc.

Ugh...hated reading the names you rattled off; it's hard to read about those players doing so well elsewhere when they could be...nevermind. Oh well it is what it is I guess and I will obviously continue to support the players we have while keeping a watchful eye on the future. It's interesting Souza's first big 'get' is a goalie...he has said that the key to winning college hockey games is in goal tending. And from what I have seen so far in the college landscape? He's right on the money. (and no am not suggesting goal tending is the only piece to that puzzle)

Dan
12-22-2016, 03:19 PM
Like I said I do appreciate the education...and to my credit I do understand it's more than just 'parity' that has placed us where we are. (if that's what you meant by the 'excuse) I do hear what you guys have been saying... That being said tho, with the competition to land players what it is, you better believe you need to sell yourself, the program, the school...the entire package to land the 'right players' AND follow them through the admissions stuff etc etc etc.

Ugh...hated reading the names you rattled off; it's hard to read about those players doing so well elsewhere when they could be...nevermind. Oh well it is what it is I guess and I will obviously continue to support the players we have while keeping a watchful eye on the future. It's interesting Souza's first big 'get' is a goalie...he has said that the key to winning college hockey games is in goal tending. And from what I have seen so far in the college landscape? He's right on the money. (and no am not suggesting goal tending is the only piece to that puzzle)

I wasn't implying it was your excuse, but it is a sentiment hat has been expressed so often and loudly on this board that it has largely been accepted. UNH just needs to believe in itself and go after what it wants confidently. It sounds simple, but that's the battle. And you can only do that if the belief is legitimate. I'm not sure it always was. Hopefully it is...

Lemonade
12-22-2016, 03:30 PM
No offense, of course Ref - but this is just an excuse that has been repeated enough times that you have naturally come to consider it. Mainly by those who would absolve the coaching staff of its accountability and responsibility.

UNH wasn't a destination until Holt came in and made it one. Then it wasn't, again, until Kullen and Staff and then McCloskey arrived and revived it as a destination. Borek lost ground, recruited less talented players gradually and then lost the ones he landed.

Imagine, if recruiting had been managed better this team could include Vecchione, Masters, Masonious, Ryzcek and potentially a returning Poturalski. Imagine...

Recruiting is primarily based in effort, belief and salesmanship. A while back one mentioned Miami as a new threat - Miami only became a recruiting power when Blasi came in and made it happen. Same with Notre Dame and Jeff Jackson. Same with Providence and Leaman. Same with St Cloud and Motzko. Etc. it takes aggressive effort, selling and getting kids to reach campus. UNH coaches have simply NOT succededin doing that...

Major Junior has always existed and for every program that has risen up there is a Maine, a Michigan State, a Colorado College, a UNH that is no longer a factor.

It is not a vastly different landscape, nor is it a vastly different game/culture - it is a vastly different approach, philosophy and result from the coaches. That's it.

UConn was an also ran and now cavanaugh has them landing elite talent. Same with Omaha until Blaise. BU was great and then Parker went through an end of career lull - now with a new coach they're unstoppable. It comes down to the coaches ability to get it done or not. Anything else is just colored bubbles...

UNH has a trenendous package to sell, just as always. There is nothing that holds them back. It just hasn't happened.

None of the newcomer recruiting powers offer any more than UNH, except for Notre Dame - and that sure didn't help Dave Poulin...

We can only hope that Commesso, and not the extended droughts, are the true indication of who Souza is as a recruiter...

Dan,
You are absolutely correct on all accounts. I think you could have a valid comparison with BU (with Parker) and UNH (with Umile) as they both seem to have an end of career lull which I would relate to probably not being able to connect with young recruits. Once Quinn took over you have a younger and energetic coach that would attract players. I am hopeful that UNH will have the same situation once Souza takes over. The last wave of recruits (Wazny/Commesso) are a step in the right direction. Wazny is averaging a pt per game and Commesso is leading all of prep hockey so far with an insane .986 save percentage as a true freshman. Future is bright at UNH!

Chuck Murray
12-22-2016, 03:31 PM
Those of you who have been with this for eons; you tell me why we landed players 10/20 years ago that we don't today. It can't ALL be the coaches fault... The impression I've gotten reading this board for the 3 plus years I have was that top, highly sought players once FLOCKED to UNH...not so anymore and while the downward spiral has been slow (?) it has picked up exponentially in the past 4/5 years having not been "Regional Ready"....

I've never claimed to have my finger on the recruiting pulse (at UNH or elsewhere), but my general impressions on some of the reasons things have changed include the following:

(1) Players came to UNH when they sold recruits on the energy of winning, new arena, big crowds, and winning;
(2) Borek's efforts moved away from McCloskey's "happy hunting grounds" in British Columbia and elsewhere;
(3) Borek purportedly tended to recruit players in volume, at a step down in quality ("quantity over quality");
(4) Borek got burnt in the 2009 e-mail recruiting violations, and shied away from early recruits well afterwards;
(5) Umile - who was never particularly active to begin with - increasingly delegated recruiting duties to Borek;
(6) Umile (and perhaps Borek?) never moved on to expand their horizons to recruit outside of North America;
(7) UNH's fortunes on the ice began to backslide, which in turn reduced their recruiting profile with top players;
(8) The "new car smell" of The Whitt wore off, and other programs renovated (PC) or built (BU) nicer facilities.

I think right now it's just an accumulation of negative momentum, and that's why some on here are eager for Souza to begin showing the way forward with his own guys. Guys like 'Watcher were sounding the alarm on this well before the last few years, so they saw it coming.

But at the end of the day, yeah, I think most of this does come to rest on Coach Umile's doorstep.

That's not a shot - that's an analysis, based on the list above. If I'm missing stuff, folks can add on.

Lemonade
12-22-2016, 03:33 PM
You absolutely have to build from the net out. Of course you need a complete team but it all starts with goaltending.

Felger
12-22-2016, 03:53 PM
Now THAT'S how to eat a cupcake:

http://unhwildcats.com/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=5058

scoreboard
12-22-2016, 05:12 PM
Now THAT'S how to eat a cupcake:

http://unhwildcats.com/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=5058

Good job Felger. That made me laugh. Does DW have a hockey team? If they do I bet they will be on the schedule next year.

Chuck Murray
12-22-2016, 05:13 PM
Now THAT'S how to eat a cupcake:

http://unhwildcats.com/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=5058

... and with D-3 Wheelock on their way next, the carnage could be even worse next time.

scoreboard
12-22-2016, 05:25 PM
... and with D-3 Wheelock on their way next, the carnage could be even worse next time.

Honestly, why is Marty dumbing down the OOC schedules for BB and hockey? There is only a downside to doing this as shown by this years hockey results. It's one thing to lose to North Dakota 5-1. Losing to Bentley by the same score is not a positive in the recruiting effort.

Greg Ambrose
12-22-2016, 05:30 PM
For your information I have been a UNH fan for a very long time. You also need to get a grip and realize my post was lighthearted. You need to hang up your skates....

Given the vitriol and psychoanalysis spewed in Umile's direction the last couple of years, I never assume "lighthearted" comments when his name is mentioned. Maybe a smiley face would have given me a clue.

Greg Ambrose
12-22-2016, 05:31 PM
A quote from Greg Ambose (AKA Bill Clinton) Early November 2016

A "lighthearted" comment no doubt?

Greg Ambrose
12-22-2016, 05:33 PM
As did I. Perhaps all of them with 4-5 exceptions. 90% of the away games too. I have some cred also. One difference is that I continue to attend. Just because i don't have 1000 posts doesn't mean I am ignorant. Did you make the welcome home after the overtime loss to Maine. It was at 12 midnight that Sunday when they returned to Durham. I respect your history and know you are a fan, but I will continue to attend and hope. And this is the only team I can speculate at the present time.

I continue to attend as well, most home games, many away games. But I live in Lynn and am not inclined to drive an hour to watch some college kids drag themselves off a bus at midnight. As a matter of fact, even if I lived in Durham I wouldn't do that. If that is your measuring stick of team loyalty, congratulations, you win.

scoreboard
12-22-2016, 05:37 PM
Given the vitriol and psychoanalysis spewed in Umile's direction the last couple of years, I never assume "lighthearted" comments when his name is mentioned. Maybe a smiley face would have given me a clue.

It was meant to be lighthearted. The fact remains Umile has over stayed his welcome. 😀