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HockeyRef
02-14-2017, 10:01 PM
Don't look now, but Merrimack is unbeaten in their last 6 and now tied with UNH for 7th place (Wildcats hold the tiebreaker).

Ok I won't look...Merrimack, Providence making their run. UNH being pointless in too many HE games in second half is feeling the pressure. Maybe it sparks much needed urgency.

Darius
02-15-2017, 12:01 PM
... From the sounds on the BU thread, their offense this season is a lot like ours. Dump and chase, 2-3 forwards behind the net, hoping for an open point to shoot directly into the goalies chest plate...Perhaps as a team, maybe because of their youth. Stating the obvious, their individual talent is off the charts. If they get it together as a team before half the players leave for the pros... look out!

deltabravo62
02-15-2017, 12:23 PM
Perhaps as a team, maybe because of their youth. Stating the obvious, their individual talent is off the charts. If they get it together as a team before half the players leave for the pros... look out!

Maybe I should have clarified that, the chatter is that their offensive schemes are similar. Yes, the talent level on that team is "Yuge", look out if they start to bring things together.

Chuck Murray
02-15-2017, 02:36 PM
I think next year with Mike Robinson coming in there will be definite competition for gk. Of course, Mike is a 'big guy' and plays a more conventional style than DT does as mentioned in your post. Not to mention D1 hockey will require a break in period and who knows if Mike gets the chance to get playing time? Soooo many variables and there's AC to consider as well. Not to impugn DT's size, style...but can't help but notice that most teams like Harvard, BU, BC etc. seem to have 'that kind' of GK; big, squares to the shot style of play.

First ... love the "gk/GK" references, HR. I think you see that used more often in the other sports we follow. :D

Just going on past history, I don't see any amazing competition breaking out next season for goalie playing time. As unusual as it will be to see a kid like Clark spend his career gradually receding from first string to second string, and then to 3rd string for what projects to be his junior season - assuming he even returns? - it would be even more unusual to see a kid like Tirone (who's basically started regularly since his arrival, and now for 2 1/2 seasons overall in his UNH career) somehow get played out of anything more that spot starts by Robinson in the latter's Frosh season. Regardless of your thoughts on Tirone - and I know many of you don't hold him in the same regard as I do - it's pretty clear the only guy whose opinion counts (Umile) holds him in high esteem. I would be shocked to see Coach break long-established form and go in a different direction in what will almost certainly be his last season at UNH - Quest or no Quest.

----------

I've tried to avoid getting too opinionated on the whole goalie issue lately, as that seems to have sparked a lot of the more *passionate* disagreements between some of us on here this season. But let me just say this ... if the NHL, other pro leagues, NCAA, etc. aren't going to give ground on cutting WAY back on the size/bulk of the goalies' protective padding (and what they've done to date has been very limited), then the only remaining solution to the "let's get the biggest guys to fill as much of the goal as possible" problem is to add a foot to the height of the goal cages. At some point,, widening them should probably be considered too. But when you see these 6' 3"+ kids spending most of their time on their knees trying to simply fill four feet of vertical space with bulk, and still fitting comfortably under the crossbar ... there's something wrong, and the powers that be who govern the sport need to do something to get those kids up on their skates again.

Oh - and let's cut the size of the catching gloves down to something that reasonably approximates the size of the catching gloves from the past generation. There's never been a rash of goalie injuries in the past to justify the silliness that's led to the extension of all the extra crap that is used further down the goalie's catching wrist/arm. It's no doubt within the framework of the rules as they now stand, but if it's under the guise of "protection" then that's bogus.

I want to see the athleticism of goalies rewarded - guys like Hasek and Quick, for example. As it stands, there is an alarming trend that favors bulk over athleticism in the position. We've seen this in the past in other sports and other settings/positions ... I remember when Ken Dryden first made it to the NHL, and how large he was compared to the typical NHL goalie of the time. But if you look at the padding (and glove) he used, it's remarkable how much less bulk even he had in the goal compared to his same-size, modern-day successors.

Raise the crossbar, take away the extra trimming to purported goalie "protection", and let's see what happens.

JMHO. Now please feel free to have a go at it. :D

Lemonade
02-15-2017, 04:11 PM
First ... love the "gk/GK" references, HR. I think you see that used more often in the other sports we follow. :D

Just going on past history, I don't see any amazing competition breaking out next season for goalie playing time. As unusual as it will be to see a kid like Clark spend his career gradually receding from first string to second string, and then to 3rd string for what projects to be his junior season - assuming he even returns? - it would be even more unusual to see a kid like Tirone (who's basically started regularly since his arrival, and now for 2 1/2 seasons overall in his UNH career) somehow get played out of anything more that spot starts by Robinson in the latter's Frosh season. Regardless of your thoughts on Tirone - and I know many of you don't hold him in the same regard as I do - it's pretty clear the only guy whose opinion counts (Umile) holds him in high esteem. I would be shocked to see Coach break long-established form and go in a different direction in what will almost certainly be his last season at UNH - Quest or no Quest.

----------

I've tried to avoid getting too opinionated on the whole goalie issue lately, as that seems to have sparked a lot of the more *passionate* disagreements between some of us on here this season. But let me just say this ... if the NHL, other pro leagues, NCAA, etc. aren't going to give ground on cutting WAY back on the size/bulk of the goalies' protective padding (and what they've done to date has been very limited), then the only remaining solution to the "let's get the biggest guys to fill as much of the goal as possible" problem is to add a foot to the height of the goal cages. At some point,, widening them should probably be considered too. But when you see these 6' 3"+ kids spending most of their time on their knees trying to simply fill four feet of vertical space with bulk, and still fitting comfortably under the crossbar ... there's something wrong, and the powers that be who govern the sport need to do something to get those kids up on their skates again.

Oh - and let's cut the size of the catching gloves down to something that reasonably approximates the size of the catching gloves from the past generation. There's never been a rash of goalie injuries in the past to justify the silliness that's led to the extension of all the extra crap that is used further down the goalie's catching wrist/arm. It's no doubt within the framework of the rules as they now stand, but if it's under the guise of "protection" then that's bogus.

I want to see the athleticism of goalies rewarded - guys like Hasek and Quick, for example. As it stands, there is an alarming trend that favors bulk over athleticism in the position. We've seen this in the past in other sports and other settings/positions ... I remember when Ken Dryden first made it to the NHL, and how large he was compared to the typical NHL goalie of the time. But if you look at the padding (and glove) he used, it's remarkable how much less bulk even he had in the goal compared to his same-size, modern-day successors.

Raise the crossbar, take away the extra trimming to purported goalie "protection", and let's see what happens.

JMHO. Now please feel free to have a go at it. :D


Interesting stuff....I absolutely think size is now the #1 factor when looking for goalies and its absurd. Nevermind if the kid is athletic or can stop pucks - he has to be 6'2+ nowadays or wont even get a look. I think like all positions it should be an open competition and the best player play no matter if he is a freshman or senior...returner or not...its about competition and putting the best team out on the ice. If Robinson gives them a .00000001% better chance of winning he should get the start. Nothing should be given.

Regarding the goalie pad/protection - one thing you did not mention is the advancement of technology in the player sticks. Shots are now coming in harder and more accurate than ever. I agree some of padding maybe a bit overboard but so is the technology and flex of the composite sticks nowadays.

chickod
02-15-2017, 04:11 PM
But let me just say this ... if the NHL, other pro leagues, NCAA, etc. aren't going to give ground on cutting WAY back on the size/bulk of the goalies' protective padding (and what they've done to date has been very limited), then the only remaining solution to the "let's get the biggest guys to fill as much of the goal as possible" problem is to add a foot to the height of the goal cages.

Very interesting and provocative proposal. Not unlike raising the basketball hoop to 12 feet in the NBA. I can vividly remember sitting behind the net about 12 rows up at the 2004 Frozen Four final at the Garden (that 1-0 Denver win over Maine after Maine's first goal was disallowed because a player's skate was a tenth of an inch into the crease - but I digress). Sitting next to me was a former prominent "old time" Division I goalie whose name will go unmentioned. Apparently he hadn't been to many games recently, because when he saw the teams come out for warmups he went on this rant about "When WE played, the equipment was all leather and heavy. It would get soaked with perspiration and weigh five times as much. Now THESE guys have this synthetic equipment that weighs nothing and covers the entire net." It was funny the way he told it (the typical "Back in the day...." story), but he had a good point.

The counter argument to that I suppose would be the fact that the synthetic sticks today are like rocket launchers. They weigh half as much as the old wood sticks and with the amount they flex there is ridiculous force applied to the shots, not to mention crazy trajectories. And you could make the same argument in golf, where players who could barely hit a drive 200 yards are now launching the ball out there 270 with this equipment.

So what's the solution? Some would say the "enhanced" goalie equipment (sorry, "GK" equipment :)) is necessary to counterbalance the stick technology. One thing is for certain...we are never going backwards. We're not going back to steel shafts and persimmon heads, and we're not going back to wood sticks and leather goalie pads. I think your suggestion of widening the goals is one that probably should be given consideration.

EDIT: Lemonade...you beat me to it! ha ha

e.cat
02-15-2017, 04:40 PM
Very interesting and provocative proposal. Not unlike raising the basketball hoop to 12 feet in the NBA. I can vividly remember sitting behind the net about 12 rows up at the 2004 Frozen Four final at the Garden (that 1-0 Denver win over Maine after Maine's first goal was disallowed because a player's skate was a tenth of an inch into the crease - but I digress).

And the Denver backstop, goalie, sieve, GK was diminutive IIRC from my vantage point behind the net up about 12 rows as well!

Question, Is the Hickey kid out for this weekend? He took a pretty nasty boarding check(no call!) in the Harvard game and had to be helped off the ice?

chickod
02-15-2017, 04:43 PM
Question, Is the Hickey kid out for this weekend? He took a pretty nasty boarding check(no call!) in the Harvard game and had to be helped off the ice?

Not sure yet. He was actually up and skating around (although he didn't take a shift). It's still early in the week. :)

e.cat
02-15-2017, 05:11 PM
Not sure yet. He was actually up and skating around (although he didn't take a shift). It's still early in the week. :)

Glad/Hope he is good to go but we need any edge we can get at this point; )

chickod
02-15-2017, 05:29 PM
Glad/Hope he is good to go but we need any edge we can get at this point; )

This may come as a surprise, but I expect two very close games. We have not exactly been putting the puck in the net with any frequency!

<table style="margin-top: 2px">
<thead>
<tr>
<td>Team</td>
<td>GF in HE</td>
<td>GA in HE</td>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>BU</td>
<td><b>47*</b></td>
<td>35</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>UNH</td>
<td><b>56*</b></td>
<td>56</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>

*BU - 8th in Hockey East in goals scored
*UNH - Tied for 4th in Hockey East in goals scored (but only 1 goal behind 3rd)

Also, the visiting team has done very well in this series; UNH plays well at Agganis and we play well at Lake Whitt. Should be interesting!

EDIT: Sorry...don't know why the huge space is there... :(

HockeyRef
02-15-2017, 07:59 PM
This may come as a surprise, but I expect two very close games. We have not exactly been putting the puck in the net with any frequency!

<table style="margin-top: 2px">
<thead>
<tr>
<td>Team</td>
<td>GF in HE</td>
<td>GA in HE</td>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>BU</td>
<td><b>47*</b></td>
<td>35</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>UNH</td>
<td><b>56*</b></td>
<td>56</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>

*BU - 8th in Hockey East in goals scored
*UNH - Tied for 4th in Hockey East in goals scored (but only 1 goal behind 3rd)

Also, the visiting team has done very well in this series; UNH plays well at Agganis and we play well at Lake Whitt. Should be interesting!

EDIT: Sorry...don't know why the huge space is there... :(

The past couple of years have been close with UNH being highly competitive in this series as I pointed out...we need HE points out of fheweekend and hope Maine can do something with surging Merrimack. I'm cautiously thinking/hoping split but....

It would be nice if we do something against a ranked team like BU. I don't buy it for a second that they are "reeling" with the Beanpot loss; more like empowered. Anything can happen I suppose! Be nice to have some confidence going into the Yukon series where I suspect home ice will be decided (like last season but I won't go there)...

Haha Chuck I always call every goalie a gk guess all of those years playing-coaching-officiating FH and Lax are too engrained in me I will work on it! Go 'Cats!!!

Chuck Murray
02-15-2017, 08:22 PM
Interesting stuff....I absolutely think size is now the #1 factor when looking for goalies and its absurd. Nevermind if the kid is athletic or can stop pucks - he has to be 6'2+ nowadays or wont even get a look.

That's pretty much how I'm seeing it, too. You hear and read a lot of different things about how the game is "evolving". Honestly, and I'm sorry if folks disagree ... but watching some oversized kid slide back and forth from post to post on his knees for 90+% of the time when his team is in its own defensive zone is not my idea of "evolution" of anything. De-evolution, more like it. So much is being done nowadays to take away the bottom of the goal ... the huge goalies kneeling comfortably under the crossbar to fill space, defensemen (and others) diving around more than ever to block shots. Those two have absolutely taken some of the offense out of the game in recent years. So raise the crossbar by a foot, and see if we can give goalies more reason to play up on their skates more often, and give attacking players more space to shoot for that might not be so impaired by what's happening closest to the ice surface.


I think like all positions it should be an open competition and the best player play no matter if he is a freshman or senior...returner or not...its about competition and putting the best team out on the ice. If Robinson gives them a .00000001% better chance of winning he should get the start. Nothing should be given.

I absolutely agree with you. Problem is, Coach doesn't have a track record of taking that approach. When it's happened, it's been because the incumbents have had subpar seasons to force the issue ... but not until well into the season, and rarely (if ever) from the outset. So if Tirone gets off to a poor start next season, and Robinson is looking good ... *maybe* it happens, and *maybe* not. But if that door does open, you'd better play well, or else the door slams shut on you, and things return quickly to status quo. See Clark, Adam.


Regarding the goalie pad/protection - one thing you did not mention is the advancement of technology in the player sticks. Shots are now coming in harder and more accurate than ever. I agree some of padding maybe a bit overboard but so is the technology and flex of the composite sticks nowadays.

True ... but to a degree, we've seen this before (or at least some of us older goats can claim is happened in our lifetimes). On entering the NHL, Bobby Hull terrorized the league with his unprecedented 100 MPH slapshot, and he and Chicago teammate Stan Mikita were the first players to use curved sticks (early '60's I believe?). The immediate change that forced was to goalie safety, and Jacques Plante was the first goalie to ever wear a protective mask. The NHL eventually stepped in to limit the amount of allowable curve to the sticks, so while evolving through some big changes, the game eventually found its equilibrium on stick curvature and head protection - both for goalies and then more pervasively for the rest of the players.

Nowadays, goalies have terrific head protection, and players' use of helmets is legislated up to and including the NHL. If the NHL were to raise the crossbar a foot, I think that would probably result in ALL players having to use a visor or cage to protect their eyes/faces ... but the NCAA already has that in place, so not an earth-shattering change.

I don't expect stick technology to change, but I do think the goalie protection can be trimmed back - the catching gloves have been beyond ridiculous for a long time now - and with the improvement in technology, the lighter weight equipment is a plus already. Goalies should not need to look like the frickin' "Michelin Man". And if they somehow need all that extra bulk padding, I do think we need to raise the crossbar a foot to get things back to equilibrium again.

Oh ... and cavbim nailed the trivia question about the high-scoring UNH alum and his Quad City exploits.

Chuck Murray
02-15-2017, 08:36 PM
Haha Chuck I always call every goalie a gk guess all of those years playing-coaching-officiating FH and Lax are too engrained in me I will work on it! Go 'Cats!!!

No, I'm right there with ya, HR. Same in my "other" sport. I probably read past your use of "GK" several times here (and likely dozens of times in other posts) before it dawned on me. :o So I'm just as "guilty" as you. No need to work on it - nothing's broken, so nothing to fix.

Hockey = goaltender (G). Slang = goalie. I've never heard a hockey goalie called 'tender or 'tend
Soccer etc. = goalkeeper (GK). Primary slang = 'keeper. Acceptable = 'keep, goalie

chickod
02-15-2017, 10:51 PM
Oh - and let's cut the size of the catching gloves down to something that reasonably approximates the size of the catching gloves from the past generation.

So, just by coincidence I watched the old movie "Love Story" (starring Ali MacGraw and Ryan O'Neal) from 1970 tonight. I'm sure you'd remember this, Chuck. There were a couple of sequences where Harvard played hockey games (first against Dartmouth and then Cornell). Especially since we have just been discussing it today, I paid particular attention to the equipment. It was hysterical. The goalies' catching gloves were smaller than a first baseman's mitt. And their "pads" barely extended beyond the outside of their shins (not to mention that they stopped barely above the knee). There was a lot of going down on their sides and "stacking the pads" (which didn't do a lot of good because they didn't cover much area). And it would probably remind you of the old Snively days...the spectators all wore heavy coats...it looked as though the hockey sequences were filmed in "chilly" Watson Rink. :)

HockeyRef
02-16-2017, 06:40 PM
Did anyone see that today UNH announced a 'presale' of the Northeast Regional "single session" tickets for the semi-finals? I'm assuming that's for both games that day? I'm going regardless if we are there just to see some great college hockey but was somewhat confused by the 'single session' wording...?

scoreboard
02-16-2017, 07:30 PM
Did anyone see that today UNH announced a 'presale' of the Northeast Regional "single session" tickets for the semi-finals? I'm assuming that's for both games that day? I'm going regardless if we are there just to see some great college hockey but was somewhat confused by the 'single session' wording...?

Single session means you get a ticket to the semifinals only. Does not include the final game. The semi games are back to back thus a single session.

HockeyRef
02-16-2017, 07:54 PM
Single session means you get a ticket to the semifinals only. Does not include the final game. The semi games are back to back thus a single session.

Thanks, that's what I thought. Wonder why they aren't offering the final game? I doubt I'll go anyway (unless a miracle happens)...but would do the semi's to see 2 games.

scoreboard
02-16-2017, 08:04 PM
Thanks, that's what I thought. Wonder why they aren't offering the final game? I doubt I'll go anyway (unless a miracle happens)...but would do the semi's to see 2 games.

Right now, they would like people to purchase the "all sessions" ticket which would include the semis and finals. The ticket sales are slow, since UNH won't likely make it, so they are trying to get tickets sold for the semis. The finals only tickets probably will not be on sale anytime soon. I did not receive the UNH email but did receive a similar email from the NCAA. It offered single session buys for all the regionals except the North Dakota regional. That regional is probably already sold out.

HockeyRef
02-16-2017, 08:30 PM
Right now, they would like people to purchase the "all sessions" ticket which would include the semis and finals. The ticket sales are slow, since UNH won't likely make it, so they are trying to get tickets sold for the semis. The finals only tickets probably will not be on sale anytime soon. I did not receive the UNH email but did receive a similar email from the NCAA. It offered single session buys for all the regionals except the North Dakota regional. That regional is probably already sold out.

I do not believe I received an email but saw it on the UNH Wildcats Facebook page...

ps Saturday's "blue out the 'Whitt" BU game and next week's final reg. season UConn game will be televised on ESPN3

Chuck Murray
02-16-2017, 11:21 PM
So, just by coincidence I watched the old movie "Love Story" (starring Ali MacGraw and Ryan O'Neal) from 1970 tonight. I'm sure you'd remember this, Chuck. There were a couple of sequences where Harvard played hockey games (first against Dartmouth and then Cornell). Especially since we have just been discussing it today, I paid particular attention to the equipment. It was hysterical. The goalies' catching gloves were smaller than a first baseman's mitt. And their "pads" barely extended beyond the outside of their shins (not to mention that they stopped barely above the knee). There was a lot of going down on their sides and "stacking the pads" (which didn't do a lot of good because they didn't cover much area). And it would probably remind you of the old Snively days...the spectators all wore heavy coats...it looked as though the hockey sequences were filmed in "chilly" Watson Rink. :)

The first movie I ever saw as a kid with rampant use of profanity ... and it was 90% from her, not him. :eek:

Anyway ... yeah, good point. And to take it a step further, if you check out Slapshot (which was only 5+ years later), the goalie's protective equipment hadn't evolved all that much further even then. To be clear, I don't have an issue with protecting goalies - it's just with how over-the-top the "protection" has become. It's gone WAY beyond protection now. The stuff being lighter in and of itself should be more than enough to help goalies be more quick and agile - y'know, athletic - as opposed to creating more mass, and cynically learning how to "block out the sun" with sheer bulk, positioning, and having a solid grasp of angles.

That's not to discount the importance of positioning and playing angles, which should be a big part of any goalie's tool kit, no doubt ... but while this is still a sport, I'd like to see more athleticism in the goalie position. Silly me.

So, trim back the mass of the padding almost everywhere (don't say it can't be done) OR raise the crossbar.

Oh, and since the subject did come up ... I want to issue a terse "no comment" to long-standing rumors that scenes from Oliver Barrett III's dad's shack in Love Story were actually filmed on the WIS Estate in Effingwoods. :D