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gfmorris
10-11-2016, 10:38 AM
I would have liked to have saw them call the center ice interference a little more where the D-man cuts a guy off after a dump/chip in, but hopefully in time, that will go away as well.

These kinds of infractions are as frustrating to me as the (highly dangerous and need to be out of the game) checking from behind calls, which UAH took in each game in Connecticut. The latter change games and lives, but the former completely blows up the way that the game is played, and that makes me frustrated and sad. For all we know, we have some top-level offensive talent in this league, but we're not often given the chance to see it.

GFM

Bale
10-11-2016, 11:13 AM
These kinds of infractions are as frustrating to me as the (highly dangerous and need to be out of the game) checking from behind calls, which UAH took in each game in Connecticut. The latter change games and lives, but the former completely blows up the way that the game is played, and that makes me frustrated and sad. For all we know, we have some top-level offensive talent in this league, but we're not often given the chance to see it.

GFM

EXACTLY!!

I know people wrote it off last year due to bitterness, but I think it spoke volumes when Kreiger transferred from UAF to UMD and talked about the style of play in the conference. I'm sure you have to take some of it with a grain of salt, but that seemed too specific to just blow off. If the conference has a reputation (fair or not) for that style of play, it can have affects for a long time. Deal with it now, so you don't have to deal with it later.

JohnsonsJerseys
10-11-2016, 11:53 AM
Dirty play happens in every conference / league at every level of play. That's just a former player trying to justify their decision. The league didn't change their style of play in the last two years. So when UAF offered him a roster spot he was ok with it. Now when UMD offers him a chance to get off the UAF roster suddenly style of play is unacceptable for him. Saying the style of play is an issue for you (assuming it hasn't changed recently) means you didn't have any idea what you were getting into when you agreed to play for UAF and never watched a WCHA game before you committed to play for the team/conference. Right.....
Ryan J

Bale
10-11-2016, 12:15 PM
Dirty play happens in every conference / league at every level of play. That's just a former player trying to justify their decision. The league didn't change their style of play in the last two years. So when UAF offered him a roster spot he was ok with it. Now when UMD offers him a chance to get off the UAF roster suddenly style of play is unacceptable for him. Saying the style of play is an issue for you (assuming it hasn't changed recently) means you didn't have any idea what you were getting into when you agreed to play for UAF and never watched a WCHA game before you committed to play for the team/conference. Right.....
Ryan J

I disagree. There was a distinct change in style of play over the last 2 years. He wasn't the only one saying it. People/writers all over the place were and are saying the same thing.

I agree that you have to take some of what he says with a grain of salt, but it's not fair to discount what he says completely. That being said, if that is a perception that is starting to make it's way through the players, it's a problem. Perception is reality when it comes to opinions. If highly skilled players have the perception that the league as a whole is going to allow clutching and grabbing and it hampers open play that allows them to showcase their skills, that's a BIG problem. It's better to address the problem on the front end than it is to wait and see the repercussions.

beaverhockeyfan
10-11-2016, 01:44 PM
BSU was named College Hockey News' Team of the Week

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2016/10/11_team_of_the_week_bemidji.php

manurespreader
10-11-2016, 02:32 PM
Can some UAH person comment on how good UConn is. Are they the real deal or was Ferris just that bad.

gfmorris
10-11-2016, 07:19 PM
Can some UAH person comment on how good UConn is. Are they the real deal or was Ferris just that bad.

Time and time again, UAH let UConn forwards get in close. Tage Thompson was the recipient of that. I don't think that it was so much superior speed (although they were faster) as much as just some seriously bad D-zone play. A lot of those goals were in-close, no-coverage goals. UAH started off the weekend taking a ton of penalties and never really seemed to recover. I have modest expectations for this weekend —*I'd love a split but Houghton is a dead zone for us.

###

http://blog.wchaplayoffs.com/below/ is a brief explainer on the rating project I've been working on since December. I welcome questions and comments.

GFM

UAHHerd4
10-11-2016, 08:53 PM
Can some UAH person comment on how good UConn is. Are they the real deal or was Ferris just that bad.

After watching both weekends. To quickly sum it up, UAH looked better week one against Ferris. I think Ferris is still trying to find their identity a bit, defense was a problem for them and the PP. UConn just flat out outplayed UAH. Tage Thompson and Letunov were fantastic. From the beginning of the Friday night game UAH struggled and it resulted in a 6-0 loss. Saturday wasn't much different but I think UAH played a little better. UConn definitely has some fire power and was well coached.

UAFHockeyFan314
10-12-2016, 04:28 AM
Dirty play happens in every conference / league at every level of play. That's just a former player trying to justify their decision. The league didn't change their style of play in the last two years. So when UAF offered him a roster spot he was ok with it. Now when UMD offers him a chance to get off the UAF roster suddenly style of play is unacceptable for him. Saying the style of play is an issue for you (assuming it hasn't changed recently) means you didn't have any idea what you were getting into when you agreed to play for UAF and never watched a WCHA game before you committed to play for the team/conference. Right.....
Ryan J

Krieger was a prima donna that wanted to score SC top 10 goals every night after the one Buccigross retweeted a couple of years ago. In reality, he skates the puck coast to coast, gets double teamed and turns the puck over and goes the other way. He doesn't pass, or play worthy defense. He's a very talented hockey player that cares about his stat line more than his team's win/loss record. His playing time last year should be a strong indication of that. Don't think I saw a single line chart with him above the 3rd line.

I'm curious to see how UMD takes to that style of play. I think the only gains he will see if he doesn't listen to his coaches there, is he will be a bit closer to home.

Bale
10-12-2016, 09:36 AM
Krieger was a prima donna that wanted to score SC top 10 goals every night after the one Buccigross retweeted a couple of years ago. In reality, he skates the puck coast to coast, gets double teamed and turns the puck over and goes the other way. He doesn't pass, or play worthy defense. He's a very talented hockey player that cares about his stat line more than his team's win/loss record. His playing time last year should be a strong indication of that. Don't think I saw a single line chart with him above the 3rd line.

I'm curious to see how UMD takes to that style of play. I think the only gains he will see if he doesn't listen to his coaches there, is he will be a bit closer to home.

He very well may be that. I don't know. I think that may be missing the point. The truth doesn't matter. Perception is what matters. If players have the perception of a league that takes away all of the skill and allows players to be pulled, grabbed, tripped, held, etc, that's all that matters. Skilled players are going to be scared off by that. Right or wrong, kids are going to be influenced by that.

JohnsonsJerseys
10-12-2016, 09:39 AM
I disagree. There was a distinct change in style of play over the last 2 years. He wasn't the only one saying it. People/writers all over the place were and are saying the same thing. If that is a perception that is starting to make it's way through the players, it's a problem. Perception is reality when it comes to opinions.
Honestly winning is all that matters. If the WCHA wins the next three national championships, no one is going to care what the style of play happens to be. Now the WCHA is battling to be the top dog so all these little things come to the surface as excuses.

"Thanks for the scholarship offer coach. I would really like to play for your team and in your conference because you win a ton of games and national championships. It would be awesome to be part of this winning tradition. However your conference plays "clutch and grab" so I'm going to have to decline your offer go play somewhere else where I can skate freely end to end for a losing team" said no real hockey player, ever.

Ryan J

davyd83
10-12-2016, 11:05 AM
Honestly winning is all that matters. If the WCHA wins the next three national championships, no one is going to care what the style of play happens to be. Now the WCHA is battling to be the top dog so all these little things come to the surface as excuses.

"Thanks for the scholarship offer coach. I would really like to play for your team and in your conference because you win a ton of games and national championships. It would be awesome to be part of this winning tradition. However your conference plays "clutch and grab" so I'm going to have to decline your offer go play somewhere else where I can skate freely end to end for a losing team" said no real hockey player, ever.

Ryan Ji just wonder if there is such thing as "tampering" rules in the NCAA?

Bale
10-12-2016, 11:40 AM
Honestly winning is all that matters. If the WCHA wins the next three national championships, no one is going to care what the style of play happens to be. Now the WCHA is battling to be the top dog so all these little things come to the surface as excuses.

"Thanks for the scholarship offer coach. I would really like to play for your team and in your conference because you win a ton of games and national championships. It would be awesome to be part of this winning tradition. However your conference plays "clutch and grab" so I'm going to have to decline your offer go play somewhere else where I can skate freely end to end for a losing team" said no real hockey player, ever.

Ryan J

You can mock and ridicule it all you want, but you're kidding yourself if you think that kids are OK with playing a boring style of hockey. You're also kidding yourself if you think that kids don't want to showcase themselves for the next level. You're also kidding yourself if you think skill won't win out over slow, plodding, clutch and grab hockey the majority of the time.

Let's face it, if a skilled player that is being recruited by a free skating team that has a chance to win or a slow plodding team that has a chance to win, they are likely to lean toward the style of hockey that is going to make them look better individually. It would be naive to think that skilled players that have a chance to move on to the next level aren't going to look at that.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people are so against opening the game up by enforcing the rules. People sit and **** and moan about the low scoring and games not being exciting, but then **** and moan that the league wants to clean up the game. The reality is that we WILL lose casual fans if they don't do something to pick up the pace of games. Schools are hemorrhaging money because they can't get people in the seats and they won't unless the quality of the game is better. They're trying something with the new overtime rules and that's not acceptable to people. Now they try to enforce the rules and that's not acceptable to people. What do people want?

MaizeRage
10-12-2016, 12:30 PM
Time and time again, UAH let UConn forwards get in close. Tage Thompson was the recipient of that. I don't think that it was so much superior speed (although they were faster) as much as just some seriously bad D-zone play. A lot of those goals were in-close, no-coverage goals. UAH started off the weekend taking a ton of penalties and never really seemed to recover. I have modest expectations for this weekend —*I'd love a split but Houghton is a dead zone for us.

###

http://blog.wchaplayoffs.com/below/ is a brief explainer on the rating project I've been working on since December. I welcome questions and comments.

GFM

This is part of the problem the WCHA has. For the bottom half of their league, those teams know they have no hope of getting an at-large bid to the NCAA tourney, so what do non-conference games matter? Yeah, they're all competitive people and want to win, but the same defensive discipline and personal abandon to block shots that they need to be successful isn't there. Even for coaches, it's tough to justify shortening the bench and burning out the top guys for a game like that. Meanwhile, it matters a lot in league play because grinding out a tie or win against a top team can be the difference in making the playoffs or playoff position.

purpleinnebraska
10-12-2016, 12:39 PM
You can mock and ridicule it all you want, but you're kidding yourself if you think that kids are OK with playing a boring style of hockey. You're also kidding yourself if you think that kids don't want to showcase themselves for the next level. You're also kidding yourself if you think skill won't win out over slow, plodding, clutch and grab hockey the majority of the time.

Let's face it, if a skilled player that is being recruited by a free skating team that has a chance to win or a slow plodding team that has a chance to win, they are likely to lean toward the style of hockey that is going to make them look better individually. It would be naive to think that skilled players that have a chance to move on to the next level aren't going to look at that.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people are so against opening the game up by enforcing the rules. People sit and **** and moan about the low scoring and games not being exciting, but then **** and moan that the league wants to clean up the game. The reality is that we WILL lose casual fans if they don't do something to pick up the pace of games. Schools are hemorrhaging money because they can't get people in the seats and they won't unless the quality of the game is better. They're trying something with the new overtime rules and that's not acceptable to people. Now they try to enforce the rules and that's not acceptable to people. What do people want?

I think it's also undeniable that it IS affecting recruiting. Of course winning helps with recruiting, but programs like UConn, Western Michigan, Northeastern, even CC -schools that haven't been winning recently- are getting better recruits than anyone in the WCHA. You're not going to put up numbers in the league as it currently is, you're going to have a hard time showing any skills, and you're going to have a hard time making it to the next level. Kids know that. The concern is that these things tend to snowball, and all of a sudden, you find out that recruits think your school is a lot closer to AH than it is ECAC or NCHC

gfmorris
10-12-2016, 02:50 PM
This is part of the problem the WCHA has. For the bottom half of their league, those teams know they have no hope of getting an at-large bid to the NCAA tourney, so what do non-conference games matter? Yeah, they're all competitive people and want to win, but the same defensive discipline and personal abandon to block shots that they need to be successful isn't there. Even for coaches, it's tough to justify shortening the bench and burning out the top guys for a game like that. Meanwhile, it matters a lot in league play because grinding out a tie or win against a top team can be the difference in making the playoffs or playoff position.

If you're implying that UAH was dogging it against UConn, I can tell you that our team's mindset is anything but that. Go look at how they played North Dakota last year — yes, with some of their top talent out for World Juniors. UAH simply just had a bad weekend in Hartford. It was Week 2 and the whole program wanted to build on what was accomplished in Big Rapids.

Furthermore, here are the 2015-16 non-conference results (http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?113362-WCHA-2015-16-So-here-s-what-we-think-that-we-know&p=6280105&viewfull=1#post6280105):

-5 against Hockey East (3-2-0)
-4 against Atlantic Hockey (3-0-1)
-26 against the NCHC (4-20-2)
-24 against the Big10 (10-9-5)
-7 against the ECAC (4-2-1)
-6 against Arizona State (3-3-0)

Bottom-feeders:
ALABAMA-HUNTSVILLE (6) 2-4-0
ALASKA-ANCHORAGE (6) 3-2-1
ALASKA (6) 2-4-0

Mid-pack:
BEMIDJI STATE (8) 5-2-1
FERRIS STATE (7) 2-3-2
LAKE SUPERIOR STATE (10) 3-7-0
NORTHERN MICHIGAN (8) 3-3-2

Top-tier:
BOWLING GREEN (10) 4-5-1
MICHIGAN TECH (6) 3-1-2
MINNESOTA STATE (8) 2-6-0

There's no discernible correlation — at a 50,000-ft level —*between "quality of team" and "non-conference performance". Bemidji State was the team with the best record OOC, and they were a #6 seed; Mankato was a top-seed and had the worst one.

GFM

JohnsonsJerseys
10-12-2016, 02:58 PM
I think the point many of you miss is that a real scout isn't going to be fooled by an inflated stat line. If you have talent and you play in a league that bogs you down, a true talent scout is going to see that player has the skills to play at the same level. By the same token a player to puts up 40 pts in a wide-open league without basic skills isn't going to the next level regardless of what their stats say. That same scout will take one look at their game and notice they are not facing any tough opposition and understand that once the competition gets tough they are not going to be racking up the points any more.

Hey if a kid just wants to rack up stats, go play D-III or club hockey. They can take even a minimal amount of D-I level skill and be the next Great One. If you really want to get to the next level, things like who coached you, how much you improved year-to-year, and physical skills have way more to do with you getting pro attention than your stat line.

Only fans are impressed by great stats.

Ryan J

Bale
10-12-2016, 04:03 PM
I think the point many of you miss is that a real scout isn't going to be fooled by an inflated stat line. If you have talent and you play in a league that bogs you down, a true talent scout is going to see that player has the skills to play at the same level. By the same token a player to puts up 40 pts in a wide-open league without basic skills isn't going to the next level regardless of what their stats say. That same scout will take one look at their game and notice they are not facing any tough opposition and understand that once the competition gets tough they are not going to be racking up the points any more.

Hey if a kid just wants to rack up stats, go play D-III or club hockey. They can take even a minimal amount of D-I level skill and be the next Great One. If you really want to get to the next level, things like who coached you, how much you improved year-to-year, and physical skills have way more to do with you getting pro attention than your stat line.

Only fans are impressed by great stats.

Ryan J

And, honestly, I think scouts are irrelevant to this discussion.

In my mind, the only things that matter are the players and the fans....or more accurately, the perceptions of the players and the perceptions of the fans. Look at it from a player's perspective. Assume this player is a talented/skilled player. They are being recruited by teams from the NCHC (say UMD in this case), the ECAC (assume Quinnipiac) and the WCHA (assume MSU). All things being equal, the player likes all the schools the same. Their main goal is to go to college, work on their game and get an education in the process. Now, all other things being equal, they like the education at all schools, they like the coaches at all 3 schools, they like the facilities at all 3 schools, the success is somewhat equal between all 3 schools (I know MSU hasn't proven anything in the postseason), the location doesn't matter. The biggest thing that's different for this player is that they are different conferences and the style of play in the conferences. If they want to show off their skills, their perception is that a wide open style is going to be best for them. It doesn't matter how many times you tell a 17,18, or 19 differently, they are going to go for that style every time. If that happens repeatedly, the league as a whole suffers and each individual team suffers.

Now, look at it from a fan's perspective. All of us here are hard core fans, we're likely not going to go away no matter what. For those fans that only go to 3 or 4 games a year though, dropping that isn't a big deal. If they aren't entertained, they are going to go away. Which gets back to my point, clutch-and-grab hockey is not fun to watch for the casual fan. Slow and plodding is not fun to watch for the casual fan. It's not hard to put the cash back into my pocket and use it to pay for something that is entertaining.

So, while I agree, a kid CAN and WILL get recognized regardless of where they are at, that's not the perception. If it really mattered, kids wouldn't care about going to the Big Ten schools because of the name recognition (ie Blue Chip recruits wouldn't have been signing up to go to Wisconsin and Michigan State the last few years with the way the results on the ice were going). The fact of the matter is that it does matter to kids. Perceptions become reality in this instance. Calling the games in the way that the rules are written (not changing by the way, just enforcing) is a good way to do that. Giving skilled players the ability to showcase their skill is a good thing. That's not to say you can't still play a hard-nosed checking style of hockey, just do it within the rules.

Squarebanks
10-12-2016, 05:02 PM
Dirty play happens in every conference / league at every level of play. That's just a former player trying to justify their decision. The league didn't change their style of play in the last two years. So when UAF offered him a roster spot he was ok with it. Now when UMD offers him a chance to get off the UAF roster suddenly style of play is unacceptable for him. Saying the style of play is an issue for you (assuming it hasn't changed recently) means you didn't have any idea what you were getting into when you agreed to play for UAF and never watched a WCHA game before you committed to play for the team/conference. Right.....
Ryan J

UAFHockeyFan314 pretty much said it all regarding Krieger. Nobody in Fairbanks is going to miss that guy. Good luck to him in Duluth.

Critical Thinker
10-12-2016, 05:06 PM
If top forwards are staying away from the WCHA because it's low scoring, then shouldn't it logically follow that the top defensemen and goalies would be committing in droves?