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DDad16
09-14-2016, 09:55 AM
Anyone know what is going on at SUNY-Cortland? Earl Utter is no longer the coach and they STILL have yet to name a replacement.

hockey1122
09-14-2016, 10:47 AM
Rumor has it Richard Filighera.

GTOWN
09-14-2016, 01:36 PM
I had heard in the past that women's hockey wasn't a big focus for Cortland, is that true? Would the delay be a reflection of the quality of coaches applying?

PSUChamps2001
09-14-2016, 03:01 PM
Hockey in general isn't. . . . . .

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
09-14-2016, 05:10 PM
I had heard in the past that women's hockey wasn't a big focus for Cortland, is that true? Would the delay be a reflection of the quality of coaches applying?

Cortland's Athletics Department excels on the national level, and dominates the SUNYAC, in just about every sport if plays... except hockey, of any gender.

Mission
09-15-2016, 06:30 AM
Agree with prior comment on Cortland athletics overall being excellent (except any gender hockey). Couple of comments on that front.........

Womens hockey has improved in the last 4 years dramatically to the point where they have made playoffs the last 2 consecutive seasons. In spite of the improvement, there is still no comparison hockey-wise to the likes of Platty, Elmira, etc. That being said, the athletic administration does seem to take the "path of least resistance" when it comes to servicing the "squeaky wheel" syndrome. In this instance for womens hockey, regardless of the year-over-year improvement, there is a seemingly always unhappy group of parents (vocal minority) who plowed a path repeatedly to the AD over the years to complain about everything under the sun. The sad part is their kids probably got more ice time and special treatment more than anyone else on the team. The problem should have been "nipped in the bud" years earlier and it would not have manifested itself to this point (old coach getting fired). Equal blame to go around though with old head coach for not dealing with it head-on from the beginning, and the administration for rewarding a bad behavior from the parents who became a pain in their butt that they didn't want to deal with, as they have multiple other sports on cruise control. Pefect example is how long it took them to find new head coach (still not officially announced) since they made determination to terminate old coach.

As for hockey on men's side, the potential is there. Long time mens coach left a couple of years ago due to personal reasons, retiring. New coach the last couple of years is recruiting hard; however, isn't hitting the mark on quality (player and people) recruits as a few have flunked out, one decided to inexplicably retire after 1 season, etc. etc. The potential is there on paper, but chemistry and cohesiveness appear to be a larger than expected hurdle in the near term.

Great school, great academics, hopefully on the hockey front they figure it out both administratively and on the coaching front.

PSUChamps2001
09-15-2016, 07:55 AM
Agree with prior comment on Cortland athletics overall being excellent (except any gender hockey). Couple of comments on that front.........

Womens hockey has improved in the last 4 years dramatically to the point where they have made playoffs the last 2 consecutive seasons. In spite of the improvement, there is still no comparison hockey-wise to the likes of Platty, Elmira, etc. That being said, the athletic administration does seem to take the "path of least resistance" when it comes to servicing the "squeaky wheel" syndrome. In this instance for womens hockey, regardless of the year-over-year improvement, there is a seemingly always unhappy group of parents (vocal minority) who plowed a path repeatedly to the AD over the years to complain about everything under the sun. The sad part is their kids probably got more ice time and special treatment more than anyone else on the team. The problem should have been "nipped in the bud" years earlier and it would not have manifested itself to this point (old coach getting fired). Equal blame to go around though with old head coach for not dealing with it head-on from the beginning, and the administration for rewarding a bad behavior from the parents who became a pain in their butt that they didn't want to deal with, as they have multiple other sports on cruise control. Pefect example is how long it took them to find new head coach (still not officially announced) since they made determination to terminate old coach.

As for hockey on men's side, the potential is there. Long time mens coach left a couple of years ago due to personal reasons, retiring. New coach the last couple of years is recruiting hard; however, isn't hitting the mark on quality (player and people) recruits as a few have flunked out, one decided to inexplicably retire after 1 season, etc. etc. The potential is there on paper, but chemistry and cohesiveness appear to be a larger than expected hurdle in the near term.

Great school, great academics, hopefully on the hockey front they figure it out both administratively and on the coaching front.

Until Cortland decides to get their head out of the sand and start offering FA and getting players north of the border, they will continue to be at or near the bottom of the list. Again, it goes back to the administration not giving two-sheets of a care about hockey at Cortland.

GTOWN
09-15-2016, 01:31 PM
Coach Utter told my daughter not to bother because she is Canadian and he couldn't offer her anything. At the time we weren't sure if he was being honest or just brushing her off. Given that she's now playing D3 and the comments below it's unfortunate that this really is the case......

Mission
09-15-2016, 01:41 PM
Until Cortland decides to get their head out of the sand and start offering FA and getting players north of the border, they will continue to be at or near the bottom of the list. Again, it goes back to the administration not giving two-sheets of a care about hockey at Cortland.

Silliest comment I have read. I have been in hockey a loooonnnngggg time. "Players north of the border" are not the secret sauce to success. Plenty of excellent players in the states to compete with just fine.

Platty and Elmira are in a class by themselves and good on them. Like I mentioned before, Cortland has improved significantly the last few years, plenty of good roster talent, but have likely not gotten the most out of the talent due to the administrative structure and coaching that catered likely too much to the unhappy few. That being said there is plenty of upside on the roster talent-wise, and a great school academically that certainly manages to attract top athletic talent in all other sports to compete on elite level nationally. Hockey should be no different, they don't need to go fishing in Canada to have a better program with a higher level of success.

Mission
09-15-2016, 01:51 PM
Coach Utter told my daughter not to bother because she is Canadian and he couldn't offer her anything. At the time we weren't sure if he was being honest or just brushing her off. Given that she's now playing D3 and the comments below it's unfortunate that this really is the case......

Glad your daughter is playing D3, I am sure she earned/deserves it. The commentary within this thread should not lead you to assume that the prior coach was completely at fault -- nobody is perfect, and I haven't met a perfect coach yet. Additionally, specifically related to hockey the administration is a huge enabler to success or lack thereof hockey-wise. Perhaps Cortland didn't offer your daughter or pursue her strongly because at the time they may of had higher priority recruits coming in at same position, or maybe it was "fit", etc. etc. Really no need to throw a now ex-coach who maybe didn't recruit her hard for reasons unknown under the bus.

Best of luck to your daughter and whatever team she is on this upcoming season.

PSUChamps2001
09-15-2016, 01:59 PM
Silliest comment I have read. I have been in hockey a loooonnnngggg time. "Players north of the border" are not the secret sauce to success. Plenty of excellent players in the states to compete with just fine.

Platty and Elmira are in a class by themselves and good on them. Like I mentioned before, Cortland has improved significantly the last few years, plenty of good roster talent, but have likely not gotten the most out of the talent due to the administrative structure and coaching that catered likely too much to the unhappy few. That being said there is plenty of upside on the roster talent-wise, and a great school academically that certainly manages to attract top athletic talent in all other sports to compete on elite level nationally. Hockey should be no different, they don't need to go fishing in Canada to have a better program with a higher level of success.

Obviously you haven't been around that long or you needto lay off the kool aid lol. It's black and white, typical Cortland fan lol

PSUChamps2001
09-15-2016, 02:03 PM
Coach Utter told my daughter not to bother because she is Canadian and he couldn't offer her anything. At the time we weren't sure if he was being honest or just brushing her off. Given that she's now playing D3 and the comments below it's unfortunate that this really is the case......

Yea it has always been the case and one of the main reasons Cortland finds itself on the outside looking in. It doesn't take a rocket scientists to see the advantages in recruiting north of the border and giving them FA breaks, but Cortland feels they can be competitive without. How's that worked out for them? Sad because its a really good sports school.

shelfit
09-15-2016, 02:09 PM
"Again, it goes back to the administration not giving two-sheets of a care about hockey at Cortland."

Most accurate comment on this thread. They have a very loooonnnngggg-standing reputation for not caring about hockey there, especially compared to how much they care about their other sports. Anyone not familiar with this reputation has NOT been around loooonnnngggg enough to properly comment on the situation at Cortland. The new coach just made a career mistake by taking this job.

Mission
09-15-2016, 02:10 PM
Obviously you haven't been around that long or you needto lay off the kool aid lol. It's black and white, typical Cortland fan lol

Been around well over 30 years, it's a small hockey world. Anyhow I am sure nobody is interested in resume comparisons.

With that, it's not as black and white as you suggest. Different schools have different priorities, and not every school needs to demonstrate recruiting to the utmost level (ie players north of the border) to "win Championships or bust" in order to be more relevant on the field of play. Last I looked US Womens national team looked pretty good vs. Canadian womens team. The World Cup American mens team, and the American players on the Team North America, look pretty good to me. US developed players can suit any US college just fine. My point is perhaps Cortland hasn't gotten the most out of talent due to tangential reasons.

Try to absorb that concept before you hit "quick reply", and also maybe your 8,210 previous post data factoid indicates that maybe you need to step away from keyboard, lay off the computer and this forum for a few hours, and enjoy the beautiful day outside. ;) Seriously have a good day from this "typical Cortland fan".

GTOWN
09-15-2016, 03:42 PM
Glad your daughter is playing D3, I am sure she earned/deserves it. The commentary within this thread should not lead you to assume that the prior coach was completely at fault -- nobody is perfect, and I haven't met a perfect coach yet. Additionally, specifically related to hockey the administration is a huge enabler to success or lack thereof hockey-wise. Perhaps Cortland didn't offer your daughter or pursue her strongly because at the time they may of had higher priority recruits coming in at same position, or maybe it was "fit", etc. etc. Really no need to throw a now ex-coach who maybe didn't recruit her hard for reasons unknown under the bus.

Best of luck to your daughter and whatever team she is on this upcoming season.

Not throwing the ex-coach under the bus at all. Actually dealt with him a few times and he seemed nice enough. At the time we just wondered if he was being honest or perhaps "softening the blow". Looking back on the recruiting process now, in our experience, coaches have been very truthful. Some told my daughter that they were interested, some obviously offered her a spot, and some said she was on the depth chart but not at the top of what they were looking for, not always easy to hear but always truthful.

PSUChamps2001
09-15-2016, 04:21 PM
Been around well over 30 years, it's a small hockey world. Anyhow I am sure nobody is interested in resume comparisons.

With that, it's not as black and white as you suggest. Different schools have different priorities, and not every school needs to demonstrate recruiting to the utmost level (ie players north of the border) to "win Championships or bust" in order to be more relevant on the field of play. Last I looked US Womens national team looked pretty good vs. Canadian womens team. The World Cup American mens team, and the American players on the Team North America, look pretty good to me. US developed players can suit any US college just fine. My point is perhaps Cortland hasn't gotten the most out of talent due to tangential reasons.

Try to absorb that concept before you hit "quick reply", and also maybe your 8,210 previous post data factoid indicates that maybe you need to step away from keyboard, lay off the computer and this forum for a few hours, and enjoy the beautiful day outside. ;) Seriously have a good day from this "typical Cortland fan".

I'm not sure what kind of hockey you've been watching for 30 years, but it surely hasn't been Division III.

Since the 2001-2002 season, the D3 Womens NCAA Champion has had on average 39% of their roster comprised of non-American players....coincidence? :rollseyes:

Cortland has had TWO.....in 12 years (I just stopped counting past that...)

Cortland is NOT Division I, Cortland is NOT a NESCAC school. Their "name" is not going to draw in quality players to a school with a losing tradition and lack of support. You can wish all you want. Hockey is NOT basketball, it is NOT football, it is NOT baseball, it is NOT soccer....

Sure there are some good US born players, but by closing off your recruit pool because your school doesn't want to support its hockey program (give out FA), your talent pool is shrunk tremendously, and thus you are a cellar dweller. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.

Yes, I may have 8,000 posts, but unlike you I've "stepped away" from the keyboard and actually watched Division III Ice Hockey for 30 years. I've seen teams change (better to worse, worse to better), I've seen leagues change (SUNYAC in mens hockey) and there is one constant, the introduction of FA (thus non-American born players Ala Buff State Men's, Brockport Men's, Neumann women). Are you next going to tell us that New York women's players are where its at? Since that's the majority of recruits Cortland can get or have ever got?

If you want to get excited over finishing 6th in the league and "making the playoffs" ....congrats. You've gained enough points to beat Neumann and Chatham in the standings....*princess clap*

Mission
09-15-2016, 04:49 PM
I'm not sure what kind of hockey you've been watching for 30 years, but it surely hasn't been Division III.

Since the 2001-2002 season, the D3 Womens NCAA Champion has had on average 39% of their roster comprised of non-American players....coincidence? :rollseyes:

Cortland has had TWO.....in 12 years (I just stopped counting past that...)

Cortland is NOT Division I, Cortland is NOT a NESCAC school. Their "name" is not going to draw in quality players to a school with a losing tradition and lack of support. You can wish all you want. Hockey is NOT basketball, it is NOT football, it is NOT baseball, it is NOT soccer....

Sure there are some good US born players, but by closing off your recruit pool because your school doesn't want to support its hockey program (give out FA), your talent pool is shrunk tremendously, and thus you are a cellar dweller. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.

Yes, I may have 8,000 posts, but unlike you I've "stepped away" from the keyboard and actually watched Division III Ice Hockey for 30 years. I've seen teams change (better to worse, worse to better), I've seen leagues change (SUNYAC in mens hockey) and there is one constant, the introduction of FA (thus non-American born players Ala Buff State Men's, Brockport Men's, Neumann women). Are you next going to tell us that New York women's players are where its at? Since that's the majority of recruits Cortland can get or have ever got?

If you want to get excited over finishing 6th in the league and "making the playoffs" ....congrats. You've gained enough points to beat Neumann and Chatham in the standings....*princess clap*



Well, I have tried to explain it to the best of my ability. Either I have failed or you choose not to see the point trying to be made. Either way you just don't get it...............ready for this.............."Typical Platty fan".......... Just had to go there. :) Have a great weekend, we can chat again when you are at 10,427 posts.

PSUChamps2001
09-15-2016, 05:01 PM
Well, I have tried to explain it to the best of my ability. Either I have failed or you choose not to see the point trying to be made. Either way you just don't get it...............ready for this.............."Typical Platty fan".......... Just had to go there. :) Have a great weekend, we can chat again when you are at 10,427 posts.

You've explained nothing. You're trying to compare other sports at Cortland to hockey. Its been proven time and time again. Keep dreaming and enjoying those "participation" awards and wondering ever summer why your team is no good..... The writing is right there on the wall, black and white. Take the weekend and try and come up with some other excuse for the school.

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
09-15-2016, 05:43 PM
I'm not saying Canadian players are the "secret sauce" or that American players are inherently inferior. But there are quite a few examples of schools cutting the Financial Aid to Canadian players and taking a dip in on-ice performance. Plattsburgh is one of them... In the mid-2000s, they cut the Canadian-specific aid, and The men's team regressed towards .500. I would certainly say it had more of an impact on the men's team, but when you add the aid back for 06-07, a certain women's team wins a National Championship those 2 years, and the men's team is the clear #1 (but lose in the NCAA tournament) in both 08 and 09.

Or the Neumann 08-09 team where they had a grant package that was going 99% to Hockey and Lacrosse players, and the men won a National Championship that year (how that wasn't vacated is beyond me... It was a blatant violation of the rules...)

So I will concede that it has more of an impact on the men's game than the women's game, but a school like Cortland that's trying to find a group of players to buck a lower-tier reputation in hockey circles would be better served looking in two countries. It's like trying to find the "diamond in the rough" but only looking in one of the two diamond mines available to them...

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
09-15-2016, 05:52 PM
In this instance for womens hockey, regardless of the year-over-year improvement, there is a seemingly always unhappy group of parents (vocal minority) who plowed a path repeatedly to the AD over the years to complain about everything under the sun. The sad part is their kids probably got more ice time and special treatment more than anyone else on the team. The problem should have been "nipped in the bud" years earlier and it would not have manifested itself to this point (old coach getting fired). Equal blame to go around though with old head coach for not dealing with it head-on from the beginning, and the administration for rewarding a bad behavior from the parents who became a pain in their butt that they didn't want to deal with, as they have multiple other sports on cruise control.

One of those wouldn't happen to be the Cortland parent who was seemingly unprepared for Plattsburgh actually having a (relatively tame) student section at their women's games and took exception to a little playful goalie-heckling? I get being upset because they're not praising your daughter's team, but responding to the "seive/It's all your fault" by threatening to take a freshmen "outside" to "stomp their throat in" is a bit excessive...