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NU Pastime
12-04-2016, 02:38 PM
Some things never change. Only the uniforms, the civilians, the rink, and the trees on the upper parade. But Norwich is a great place which certainly did a lot for me.
NU56
Old Member
Maybe the Oldest

Absolutely. Some things change with the times but the values and principles remain the same.

NUProf
12-04-2016, 03:19 PM
Some things never change. Only the uniforms, the civilians, the rink, and the trees on the upper parade. But Norwich is a great place which certainly did a lot for me.
NU56
Old Member
Maybe the Oldest

Not going to disagree. It is amazing to hear about all of the issues that keep resurfacing. Every time they come up people think it's new. As a faculty member my only quarrel with the system was when Corps activities got in the way of teaching the students. That's another one of those things that comes and goes. Sometimes the Corps leadership want to focus on academic success and sometimes academic success is the lowest priority.

The best part right now is that I get to watch from afar instead of being caught up in it.

It's good to see the rebound that the team is having this year.

The Real Georgia Peach
12-04-2016, 06:59 PM
Just to add an opinion to the conversation. Norwich is a UNI...versity. Please explain the place for DI...versity. I look forward tothe conversation, even if it isn't hockey related. ;-)

Fishman'81
12-04-2016, 09:29 PM
[QUOTE=PSUChamps2001;6404352]For Sticks and Giggles....

Comparing 2001-2002 with 2016-2017 Average Attendance:

Positive Gains:
Utica +2067

These new fancy rinks, and all the technology (radio/video/live stats) it's just not worth it. On top of that the lack of "fun" allowed at rinks these days has gone out the window. I know I don't say and do the things I use to do 15 years ago at games, but kids these days are basically told to sit on their hands and give princess claps when the team scores. [QUOTE]

Not my take Champs, at least not in Utica... And the numbers bear me out.

People just seem to LOVE all the Jumbotron BS, the "Kiss-Cam", the "Smile-Cam", the "Dance-Cam" and all the other extraneous crap. (Nevermind that the camera chimps prance around during live play and obstruct the view of those of us trying to actually see some hockey, while we mere mortals are required to wait for a whistle to leave their seats.) And, just to be helpful, the Jumbotron tells them when they need to "MAKE SOME NOISE"!

There are lots of kids at Utica games, and I doubt they'd want to be there if there wasn't some video board to watch. So, the parents can let the Jumbotron entertain their offspring, while they themselves play with their phones incessantly, like so many sheep... That's just the world we live in now.

NU Pastime
12-05-2016, 08:26 AM
Just to add an opinion to the conversation. Norwich is a UNI...versity. Please explain the place for DI...versity. I look forward tothe conversation, even if it isn't hockey related. ;-)

This went over my head. Clarification?

NU Pastime
12-05-2016, 08:44 AM
Not my take Champs, at least not in Utica... And the numbers bear me out.

People just seem to LOVE all the Jumbotron BS, the "Kiss-Cam", the "Smile-Cam", the "Dance-Cam" and all the other extraneous crap. (Nevermind that the camera chimps prance around during live play and obstruct the view of those of us trying to actually see some hockey, while we mere mortals are required to wait for a whistle to leave their seats.) And, just to be helpful, the Jumbotron tells them when they need to "MAKE SOME NOISE"!

There are lots of kids at Utica games, and I doubt they'd want to be there if there wasn't some video board to watch. So, the parents can let the Jumbotron entertain their offspring, while they themselves play with their phones incessantly, like so many sheep... That's just the world we live in now.

I don't know, I think there's some truth to this from a certain perspective, but I also think it's overstated. I can't really speak for the DIII experience in this regard, but the same thing is true at the NHL level. Being originally from St. Louis, I've been to countless St. Louis Blues games and in the past two years I've watched the Blues play the Bruins at TD Garden. In comparison, the TD Garden is a much nicer arena than Scottrade Center is in St. Louis, but the Blues have a lot more of the "gimics" than the Bruins do. The Blues' mascot is way more involved than the Bruins' mascot (who I didn't even know existed until the third period when I just happened to see him on the lower level), the Blues' jumbotron personalities, games, and skits are far more prevalent than the Bruins' (whose only one is pretty much the puck shuffle), St. Louis invests far more into the intermission entertainment than Boston does, and Blues fans are constantly prompted when to "make noise" where that is absent at the Garden. But I think far from making Bruins fans more tuned into the game and Blues fans more aloof, and perhaps defying Midwestern hospitality and Boston M******* stereotypes, I find the crowds at Scottrade Center to be far rowdier and enthusiastic than crowds in the Garden. People don't go to the games for the gimics, they go to watch hockey, but it keeps them involved and amped up during the timeouts.

I remember reading a Dierks Bentley interview where he talks about the feel of a concert and how it goes from him going on stage in front of a bunch of strangers to that song in the set where it clicks and everyone is there together as friends. At that point, it becomes a shared experience as opposed to a bunch of strangers in a room with similar interests looking for a show. If done right, all of those gimics and side entertainment can help the crowd reach that level of investment and identity. Just my experience. It can also just come across as a corny marketing chic.

NU56
12-05-2016, 12:03 PM
[QUOTE=PSUChamps2001;6404352]For Sticks and Giggles....

Comparing 2001-2002 with 2016-2017 Average Attendance:

Positive Gains:
Utica +2067

These new fancy rinks, and all the technology (radio/video/live stats) it's just not worth it. On top of that the lack of "fun" allowed at rinks these days has gone out the window. I know I don't say and do the things I use to do 15 years ago at games, but kids these days are basically told to sit on their hands and give princess claps when the team scores. [QUOTE]

Not my take Champs, at least not in Utica... And the numbers bear me out.

People just seem to LOVE all the Jumbotron BS, the "Kiss-Cam", the "Smile-Cam", the "Dance-Cam" and all the other extraneous crap. (Nevermind that the camera chimps prance around during live play and obstruct the view of those of us trying to actually see some hockey, while we mere mortals are required to wait for a whistle to leave their seats.) And, just to be helpful, the Jumbotron tells them when they need to "MAKE SOME NOISE"!

There are lots of kids at Utica games, and I doubt they'd want to be there if there wasn't some video board to watch. So, the parents can let the Jumbotron entertain their offspring, while they themselves play with their phones incessantly, like so many sheep... That's just the world we live in now.

I liked it the way it wuz...........chicken wire instead of plexiglass so our courteous cadets could spit upon the opponent of their choice. Fans were also close enough to tell their favorite opponent what they thought of their mothers, sisters and girlfriends. It seemed harmless at the time, but now I guess we would be jailed or escorted out the gate. And time marches on, and maybe changes after all. What the hell are these cams? And where did Wick come from?? Many thanks to all you younger fans who are helping me understand the future.
NU56
Old Member
Maybe the Oldest

NUProf
12-05-2016, 02:28 PM
And where did Wick come from?


That's a question that's been burning in my brain for years
Wich I could understand, but Wick?

17'sfanNU
12-05-2016, 03:48 PM
In one weekend, the Cadets go from #10 to #5 and Plattsburgh and Babson drop off the charts in the USCHO rankings. I do understand this is meaningless, that only the NCAA rankings at the end of the season matter. It sure is sweet though, and I am sure the players appreciate the compliment:D Positive thinking can go a long way!

NU Pastime
12-06-2016, 06:28 AM
For Sticks and Giggles....

Comparing 2001-2002 with 2016-2017 Average Attendance:

Positive Gains:
Utica +2067
GENESEO +1635
OSWEGO +1263
CORTLAND +540
FITCHBURG +521
PLYM STATE +466
ST.AS +425
LAWRENCE +387


NEGATIVE ATTENDANCE
MIDDLEBURY -1568
ELMIRA -739
NEC -693
HAMILTON -630
MSOE -512
TRINITY -368
SNC -343
WILLIAMS -276
BOWDOIN -257
COLBY --237
UWS -230
ST.MARY -218
POTSDAM -204

OTHER NOTABLES
PLATTSBURGH -41
NORWICH +2
HOBART +193
BROCKPORT +240
UWSP +286

I wil

Going back to this for a minute, there are a couple of noticeable trends. 1) The answer is yes, we appear to be exaggerating the attendance loss as it's almost exactly the same as it was 15 years ago at Norwich and Plattsburgh. 2) Significant gains by the other SUNYAC schools and significant losses by the NESCAC schools. What are the reasons for This? The gains are easier to explain - more invested programs, new and larger arenas. But what about the NESCAC losses? 1500 for Middlebury!? I know they're not in the same stratosphere that they used to be, but wow. I watched a bit of the Trinity game this past weekend and it was almost entirely empty. Literally. And this is a team two years removed from winning the national championship.

PSUChamps2001
12-06-2016, 08:13 AM
Going back to this for a minute, there are a couple of noticeable trends. 1) The answer is yes, we appear to be exaggerating the attendance loss as it's almost exactly the same as it was 15 years ago at Norwich and Plattsburgh. 2) Significant gains by the other SUNYAC schools and significant losses by the NESCAC schools. What are the reasons for This? The gains are easier to explain - more invested programs, new and larger arenas. But what about the NESCAC losses? 1500 for Middlebury!? I know they're not in the same stratosphere that they used to be, but wow. I watched a bit of the Trinity game this past weekend and it was almost entirely empty. Literally. And this is a team two years removed from winning the national championship.

We can try to ignore the facts of being a true fan, win or lose, but people just don't support a losing team. Games mean less, who wants to go see my team lose, ect ect. And flip side, a team (Brockport or Buff State) years ago were known as "point night". How many points will a Plattsburgh player get playing said teams. It wasn't a question of if we win, but how much. Now students, community members know there is a chance Plattsburgh / Oswego can be "upset" and or beaten. They have good hockey to finally watch (or at least much better).

Middlebury is just the opposite. Part of that is due to the $$ and part of it is due to the NESCAC catching up to Middlebury. Just as UMB has done to Norwich, Buff St has done to Plattsburgh.

Tradition and past only caries you so far. It's all about adjusting the way you play, recruit, and prepare. Some schools just don't care if they are 20-2 or 2-20. Just the way things are in DIII.

Old Rook NU'66
12-06-2016, 01:40 PM
The Norwich Admissions office posted this photo of the 1979 Norwich-West Point game yesterday on Facebook. Pretty cool. https://www.facebook.com/norwichadmissions/photos/a.357253324355331.85912.347982828615714/1207823619298293/?type=3&theater

This photo just reminded me that about 20 years ago, about the time Kreitzberg Arena was being dedicated, the late NU hockey coach, Bob Priestly, told a luncheon group of NU hockey fans about a visiting West Point hockey team.

Actually, it may have happen when this photo was taken as Bob retired at the end of 1979. Those were the years before DI through DIII and NU hockey was still playing in Taylor Arena (a converted cavalry indoor riding hall). Taylor was a bandbox affair...that could barely hold a standing room only crowd of a 1,200 strong NU Corp of Cadets—with chain link fencing toping the boards instead of glass. But the fence was still low enough that spectators could hang over the top of the fencing and accidentally swipe an opponent when the skated by. Naturally, the day Army came calling, there was not an empty seat in the joint.

The Army coach seemed surprised by NU's Spartan facilities and made a friendly crack to Priestly before the game about our beloved old cavalry hall (a.k.a hockey rink). Later in a surprise upset...Army lost that game but before departing Priestly reminded the Army coach with a smile that "the next time you come to play us in our old riding hall be sure to bring some stronger horses.":)

My best personal recollection of Taylor Arena was a Bowdoin game in late ’62. The Bowdoin Team was given our "Rook" class club as a place to relax before game time and I had a chance to talk with the Polar Bears goalie. He said he hated playing NU in Northfield because in his words....“Taylor Arena is so small that you end up playing the entire crowd of NU Cadets instead of only six opponents.” Sure enough, that night during the 1st period the crowd was unmerciful and when Bowdoin appeared on the ice for the second period—that same goalie skated around the entire rink giving the crowd “the finger.” The cadets ate it up.:D

NUProf
12-06-2016, 01:50 PM
The other remarkable home ice advantage in Krietzberg. The rafters were only about 10 feet off the ice. Flipping the puck in the air to put it over the opposition was almost impossible, because the attempts would hit the rafters, and bring about a face off back in the defensive zone. In fact, when Krietzberg opened, I remember at a BLC luncheon that McShane talked about having to teach remind his team that elevating the puck was a viable strategy.

Old Rook NU'66
12-06-2016, 02:08 PM
The other remarkable home ice advantage in Krietzberg. The rafters were only about 10 feet off the ice. Flipping the puck in the air to put it over the opposition was almost impossible, because the attempts would hit the rafters, and bring about a face off back in the defensive zone. In fact, when Krietzberg opened, I remember at a BLC luncheon that McShane talked about having to teach remind his team that elevating the puck was a viable strategy.

I understand that today students have other entertainment options at Norwich. I even saw TVs (god forbid) in some upper classmen's rooms on a visit. But my senior year ('66) even with what became a dismal 7-15 NU hockey record....there was still standing room only for all home games.

NU Pastime
12-06-2016, 06:04 PM
This photo just reminded me that about 20 years ago, about the time Kreitzberg Arena was being dedicated, the late NU hockey coach, Bob Priestly, told a luncheon group of NU hockey fans about a visiting West Point hockey team.

Actually, it may have happen when this photo was taken as Bob retired at the end of 1979. Those were the years before DI through DIII and NU hockey was still playing in Taylor Arena (a converted cavalry indoor riding hall). Taylor was a bandbox affair...that could barely hold a standing room only crowd of a 1,200 strong NU Corp of Cadets—with chain link fencing toping the boards instead of glass. But the fence was still low enough that spectators could hang over the top of the fencing and accidentally swipe an opponent when the skated by. Naturally, the day Army came calling, there was not an empty seat in the joint.

The Army coach seemed surprised by NU's Spartan facilities and made a friendly crack to Priestly before the game about our beloved old cavalry hall (a.k.a hockey rink). Later in a surprise upset...Army lost that game but before departing Priestly reminded the Army coach with a smile that "the next time you come to play us in our old riding hall be sure to bring some stronger horses.":)

My best personal recollection of Taylor Arena was a Bowdoin game in late ’62. The Bowdoin Team was given our "Rook" class club as a place to relax before game time and I had a chance to talk with the Polar Bears goalie. He said he hated playing NU in Northfield because in his words....“Taylor Arena is so small that you end up playing the entire crowd of NU Cadets instead of only six opponents.” Sure enough, that night during the 1st period the crowd was unmerciful and when Bowdoin appeared on the ice for the second period—that same goalie skated around the entire rink giving the crowd “the finger.” The cadets ate it up.:D

This reminds me of the stories Charlie used to tell me about the Middlebury and Coast Guard football games. Stories like these are why the "The Old Corps", for better and worse, has such a strong hold on the Norwich psyche. Makes me wish I could've experienced a game in Taylor.

bakdraft21
12-06-2016, 07:24 PM
I hear the old stories all the time from my Dad Old Guard 55' Football and Basketball and in the Norwich HOF,I think the stories get better each yr,I am sure there are more to come when we come to Norwich for the upcoming Tourney.:D

joecct
12-06-2016, 08:26 PM
I like the pictures along the wall behind the press box. There's a nice one of General Harmon shaking the hand of a Norwich player back in the dark ages. They were tough then. No facemasks!!

bakdraft21
12-07-2016, 08:58 AM
I like the pictures along the wall behind the press box. There's a nice one of General Harmon shaking the hand of a Norwich player back in the dark ages. They were tough then. No facemasks!! No facemasks in football or hockey:eek:.......I didnt wear a facemask as a kid playing hockey in the 70's:eek:

Old Rook NU'66
12-08-2016, 09:33 AM
I like the pictures along the wall behind the press box. There's a nice one of General Harmon shaking the hand of a Norwich player back in the dark ages. They were tough then. No facemasks!!

Ah...General Ernie "Gravel Voice" Harmon. There was one tough hombre...who at least once a year would join the Corp in the mess hall and when he stepped up to speak all he had to do is clear his throat and a roar of cheers would go up from 1,200 Cadets. Ernie never mixed words (four letter or otherwise) or BSed the Corp. Let me put it this way, George C. Scott's opening speech in the flick Patton was just a mild mannered fatherly chat by comparison to a Harmon speech to the Corp. :D

Harmon was perfect for our generation...just as Admiral Schneider has been perfect for this generation. And hopefully as each generation goes forward ---from President to Rook--that each will maintain that one constant we all share...the Norwich spirit. Now let's get back to hockey as we go about God's work as we face a Friday night fight with St. Michaels. Finishing of St. Mike's would set us up nicely for the 2nd half in the NEHC in what is unfolding to be a pretty good season. :)

NUProf
12-08-2016, 03:57 PM
Ah...General Ernie "Gravel Voice" Harmon.
Harmon was perfect for our generation...

When I arrived at Norwich in 1980, a lot of the faculty had been on staff when Harmon was President. All of them spoke favorably of him and his integrity. None of his successors has been given that level of universal acclaim by the faculty.