UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

[Hoser]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

I see your point but you're diluting effectiveness by going for list length. Schools have departures, it's a part of college hockey and with your generous reasons to make the list I would expect UVM below BU and BC. Most of the list I would attribute to the previous assistant coach(s) getting it wrong. The criticality of and the dependency on the assistant coach(s) can easily get overlooked. They are the ones on the road recruiting. Not to absolve Sneddon of guilt around the problem, he doesn't do enough to develop offensive capabilities of the players that come in. Chris McCarthy grew steadily but he's the exception, not the rule. Back to Sneddon, he doesn't take any BS and, to his credit IMHO, has the balls to tell players ahead of time that they aren't going to get playing time well in advance so they can plan accordingly. I've been impressed with every player I've met in person from Sneddon's tenure, probably around 5 including Sifers, McCarthy, Reynolds, Hoffman for sure. It was a shame Kyle Mountain didn't work out, classy guy but didn't make it skill wise. Sneddon likes to praise all his guys as much as he can in the press and keeps a lot of the feedback private. Considering this is college hockey, not pro, I consider that a mark of professionalism.

Anyway, my goal isn't to sing praises of a coaching staff that I would agree isn't taking the team to the heights I'd like to see it, hasn't shown signs of being able to change the program, doesn't seem to have the answer for the future. Skeptical next year will be a big improvement but was interested to see your bet. UVM was last for special teams effectiveness last year, so they can only go one way. Sneddon is a heck of a coach and while the wins/losses frustrate me, especially when I see the schedule for the season and figure many weekends we'll be lucky to get 1 point (BC, PC, ND, BU, UML), I never question his work ethic or dedication to bringing student-athletes of exceptional character on campus. Finding a viable alternative to Sneddon, what, are you going to suggest Jerry York should come to UVM? It does irritate me the Norm Bazin took UML to perennial hockey east powerhouse status while Sneddon got bumped down. What burns me up even more than that is UVM suggesting they need more $$ to be competitive. Non-sense. UVM has to generate more revenue than many of the teams in HE and I would expect is top 10 nationally yet they claim they need more money. Doesn't add up to me.

"Sneddon is a heck of a coach"
Why would you think that is even remotely the case?
Worst special teams in the NCAA.....sign of poor coaching. As has been discussed over and over again on this thread, there are no systems of any sophistication level......high off the glass out of the zone and dump in chase into the offensive zone. Come on.......
Another sign of a good coach is the ability to put the right players in the right situations. Power play not working....change the personnel if you think your system is good. Same players all year. Mike Lee on the point? Really? No shot and no savvy and he played every pp all year. Why? Good coaching? Mario had one of if not the worst shooting percentage in the NCAA. How many situations that could have been dangerous resulted in an easy save or a cleared puck because Mario decided that he didn't have teammates and took the shot from a non scoring position? Good coaching? The team is at the bottom of the NCAA in winning faceoffs. Did they ever practice it or try other players to see who could win more then 50% of their draws? Nope. Good coaching?
Wallack and Patrick appear to be fairly useless and this would be ok if Sneddon took charge and made it happen. He does not.

[Cat lover]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Bottom half of Hockey East.

I realize that many of the names I will list left or transferred under individual circumstances so I think its important to look at the "body of work" and not get into mice nut details on each of the kids. My point is on turnover and this list does not include the kids who have decomitted or gone the Major Junior route ( which I think is a poor reflection of recruiting time and effort) after an offer or commitment was made. It also does not include complete no shows which there have been 2-3 over his tenure:

Wahs Stacey
Christ Atkinson
Josh Franklin
Kyle Kuk
Tim Gevered
Jeff Hill
Justin Milo
Matt Marshall
David Pacan
Billy Faust
John Vazzano
Arther Griem
Brooks Harrington
Kyle Reynolds
Mike Montagna
Blake Doerring
Kyle Mountain
Alex Vanzanno
Caylin Walls
Pete Massar
Ryan Rosenthal
Brody Hoffman
Robert Polessello
Packy Munson

And there will be 2-3 more this year as soon as it is official bringing the total team turnover to 26-28. Trust me that this number is extremely high on a relative basis for an incumbent tenured coach.

I am pretty sure there are a few missing and I took liberties with some who had injury issues or something alike. What these kids did after leaving UVM (Unlike the opinion of the Free Press) is not at issue and should not be at issue here as in many cases a kid never gets another chance especially if the coaching staff throws them under the bus for what ever reason which is a bad habit of one of the staff members. What is at issue here is either bad initial recruiting and character discovery, or a staff that is too lazy to coach the kids they recruited up into bigger roles as they mature and instead takes a path of recruit and replace.

Oh one other fact to back up my previous posts. Sneddons record at UVM is 176-192-57 which is obviously a losing record and over 50 of those wins came with players he didn't recruit. The 57 ties is astronomical on a relative basis for example Jerry York has 67 ties in twice as many years and Jack Parker had 106 in 43 years so if you don't think we play a "hang on and hope to win" style the body of work says otherwise. Taking a leap of faith and losing a series of games to adapt the style to Hockey East will take more vision and patience than we currently have.

To be honest most the players on this list had more than enough chances to impress and didnt. And the ones that did show offen ability had other issues (Milo,Stacey). Packy was good but lets not call him the next Tim Thomas. His numbers were helped early by a weak part of the schedule. In league both played 11 games and Santa was 2.46 .914 and Packy 3.03 .899 he is good but lets not act like they let a All league goalie walk.

Not a single player on your list would be a top player on a team like BC/Bu etc. so lets not act like they ran Studs out of the locker room.

UVM doesnt get the Draft prospects the big schools do so they have to bring in more players to increase the chance they can find a diamond in the ruf. Cost of that is more turnover. And as long as we dont have a new arena this is what UVM will have to do.

[Vermont Ref]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

"Sneddon is a heck of a coach"
Why would you think that is even remotely the case?
Worst special teams in the NCAA.....sign of poor coaching. As has been discussed over and over again on this thread, there are no systems of any sophistication level......high off the glass out of the zone and dump in chase into the offensive zone. Come on.......
Another sign of a good coach is the ability to put the right players in the right situations. Power play not working....change the personnel if you think your system is good. Same players all year. Mike Lee on the point? Really? No shot and no savvy and he played every pp all year. Why? Good coaching? Mario had one of if not the worst shooting percentage in the NCAA. How many situations that could have been dangerous resulted in an easy save or a cleared puck because Mario decided that he didn't have teammates and took the shot from a non scoring position? Good coaching? The team is at the bottom of the NCAA in winning faceoffs. Did they ever practice it or try other players to see who could win more then 50% of their draws? Nope. Good coaching?
Wallack and Patrick appear to be fairly useless and this would be ok if Sneddon took charge and made it happen. He does not.

I am amazed at all the expertise we have on this thread. Seems so simple. I, like most, am dissapointed in how our team has done, but it isn't easy being in the best league and trying to recruit against the BC's etc. I do wish I knew how Norm Bazin turned UML around so quickly. UVM does have higher academic standards and a great rink but nothing as nice as UMLs. I do know Kevin has high standards for his players and he cares about them. Most will be better people when they leave. Last years schedule was the toughest of any team, and we did very well against those teams, just didn't get the w's, I don't know the assitants well. They are the recruiters so a lot rests with them, at least one of them. Maybe this is one of the weaknesses. I'm optimistic for 2016-17 and Kevin's ability to turn things around. I think Jeff, as the new AD, will be a positive force for all sports.

[Agganis]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

UVM doesnt get the Draft prospects the big schools do so they have to bring in more players to increase the chance they can find a diamond in the ruf. Cost of that is more turnover. And as long as we dont have a new arena this is what UVM will have to do.

This is not what successful schools who can't/don't get top prospects (QU, Union, UML, etc.) do, and IMO even if it did lead to success in the standings should not be done, as it is not the moral way to go about it.

[Nosmo King]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Maybe we can convince Hoser to leave Band Camp to come coach. He seems to be all knowing with all the answers.

[Ronnieb]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Maybe they should try a coaching staff that doesn't suck. Rough to be the new Wisco

[Hoser]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Maybe we can convince Hoser to leave Band Camp to come coach. He seems to be all knowing with all the answers.

LOL.......a horribly stern rebuke, especially coming from the King.
Perhaps you could tell me why I am wrong, in your esteemed opinion. Happy to learn.

[UVM Cat in Texas]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

This is not what successful schools who can't/don't get top prospects (QU, Union, UML, etc.) do, and IMO even if it did lead to success in the standings should not be done, as it is not the moral way to go about it.

Agreed.

[UVM Cat in Texas]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Packy was good but lets not call him the next Tim Thomas. His numbers were helped early by a weak part of the schedule. In league both played 11 games and Santa was 2.46 .914 and Packy 3.03 .899 he is good but lets not act like they let a All league goalie walk.

Packy may not have been the next Tim Thomas, but we'll never know, at least not at UVM. He was certainly off to a good start though. Good enough to be picked up by one of the premier programs in college hockey!!! If the rumors related to his departure are to be believed, it's a real screw up by someone, and I'd have to say that someone is Sneddon given that he's the head coach.

[Jayden_Stoff]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Packy may not have been the next Tim Thomas, but we'll never know, at least not at UVM. He was certainly off to a good start though. Good enough to be picked up by one of the premier programs in college hockey!!! If the rumors related to his departure are to be believed, it's a real screw up by someone, and I'd have to say that someone is Sneddon given that he's the head coach.

Question for the forum - who is the most successful player more or less asked to leave (meaning they didn't leave early and sign some sort of pro contract) under Sneddon's tenure? I'm going to go with David Pacan. My understanding is that he was asked to leave for complications with under aged drinking and was considered too much of a liability to have on Campus. Mike Adkinson might be a candidate in IMHO. He collected around 50 points playing for QU. He was asked to leave UVM after crashing a car into a building on campus while drunk before playing any games or maybe even starting to practice with the team.

[4th liner]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Question for the forum - who is the most successful player more or less asked to leave (meaning they didn't leave early and sign some sort of pro contract) under Sneddon's tenure? I'm going to go with David Pacan. My understanding is that he was asked to leave for complications with under aged drinking and was considered too much of a liability to have on Campus. Mike Adkinson might be a candidate in IMHO. He collected around 50 points playing for QU. He was asked to leave UVM after crashing a car into a building on campus while drunk before playing any games or maybe even starting to practice with the team.

I believe Pacan was dismissed by the university for violation of the student conduct code, not the hockey team for violation of the student-athlete code of conduct. This decision was taken out of the hands of the hockey team since he apparently had other such violations. Atkinson I believe you are correct but it happened before the season so I didn't know if that was a university or team decision. Either way, it would seem a bit difficult to categorize his departure in the same context of the many "ran him off the team" accusations levied against the UVM coaching staff (The "run off" might or might not be true in other cases; can't say).

And while this is being discussed, I believe several players who reportedly left through dissatisfaction or were forced to leave the actually never did. Jeff Hill graduated and is the team's current goalie coach; John Vazzano stayed until graduation, perhaps even a fifth year, although Alex Vazzano did go to Sacred Heart (I think). Kyle Reynolds fought injuries, but he came to UVM with only three years of eligibility and stayed for the three plus I believe an injury red-shirt year; he was past the age of 21 entering UVM and consequently lost a year of eligibility. Matt Marshall graduated, then went to Northeastern as a grad student for his final year of eligibility but I don't think he played or played very little. As an older goalie and a free agent, it seems unlikely Hoffman would have stayed beyond his junior year under any circumstances. Pete Massar transferred to UVM with two years of eligibility and played two years. Doerring was another who's career was hurt by injuries before he transferred. I believe but am not certain that Greims was a family situation; I think he started the year but left before hockey began.

Others? Who knows? Certainly anyone can and has the right to criticize, and there certainly have been things worthy of criticism, but sometimes "facts" can be misconstrued in building cases for or against the current coaching regime.

Just my perspective.

[Catamount93]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Long time no post for me, though I read often. As my name implies, I graduated UVM in 1993, and my brother attended before me, so I've been following UVM hockey pretty consistently for 30 years.

My two cents on the current state of affairs:

I grew up in the Gilligan era, and I was excited when Sneddon was hired. Gilligan's teams were frustrating in that they tantalized with enough quality division one talent to make you think they could be pretty good (LeClair, Soucy, Miller, Ducharme, etc) but usually made a couple of boneheaded plays a game that kept them from really being competitive at the highest levels. Stuff I always felt could have been coached better....bad line changes, stupid penalties, etc. Then came the St. Louis/Perrin/Thomas era, and we all know how great that was. While everyone needs a little luck, in retrospect I feel like the Cats getting all three of those guys at the same time and having them perform at that level was quite a stroke of luck. Then we fell off quickly, scandal, etc. I understand and respect his place in Vermont hockey history, but I was ready for Gilligan to go long before he left.

Sneddon seemed like a good hire when we brought him on, I was really excited about it. I was interested in a new start and getting past the hazing scandal. For the first part of his tenure I really did see some improvements, and I felt like we were going in the right direction. I was ready to give Sneddon a long leash. It seemed like that paid off in 2009 with another Frozen Four trip. But with the benefit of hindsight and a 2003-present body of work to reflect on, I'm sad to say that my patience has worn thin. The 2009 trip to the frozen four seems like we lucked out, an at large birth and a weak regional where the top two seeds lost. And Sneddon's career winning percentage is now effectively tied with Bill Ruffner for the worst all time in school history. Bill coached two years. Coach Sneddon has a 12 year track record now. I get that we are in a tough league now and all that. Still, think about that. Worst winning percentage in school history....over TWELVE years.

I have a lot of respect for Coach Sneddon, I really do. I'm not here to bash him. My point is simple...I think we know enough to know that he's not the guy to pick us up to the next level. And that's ok. He might be perfect for another school as he's clearly a good hockey coach. But he's not the guy that's going to get us, Vermont, to be competitive in Hockey East on a regular basis.

To pre-emptively answer, yes I do understand how hard it is to be competitive in Hockey East. But we are talking about the University of Vermont, a state university here in the great USA. It is time we acted like we have some expectations to be successful. Why is it that we don't expect success like other schools do? Why do our coaches seem to always stay until they choose to leave? Do we ever fire coaches? We do not have football, a decision I fully agree with. We have dropped baseball, which was likely the right financial decision but was troubling to me. We are, in my view, acceptably competitive in soccer (and hopefully on the rise in lacrosse). But the two remaining "big four" sports are basketball and hockey. I can understand the high hurdles to national prominence in basketball and overall I'm pretty happy with our performance there. But hockey is the one place where I think we could, and should, truly excel on the national level. Yet we do not. As a contributing alum, I in fact do expect more from our hockey program and think it is time for a change of leadership.

Finally, to pile on the numerous other posts on this topic, it escapes me why we are not already building a new multi use facility. I think it would quickly pay off in increased alumni interaction, more applications, more donations, etc. It is a proven model, athletic success benefiting schools greatly. It would most benefit both hockey and basketball, the two sports where we can hope to have some success (I define success in basketball as making the NCAA tourney 3-5X per decade and winning a first round NCAA game once in a very great while. In Hockey East I think we should be making the Garden and NCAA tourney 5X per decade and winning HE and making a frozen four 1X per decade.) To me, this does not seem impossible with a new facility and new leadership. I'm ready for the change and hope to see it happen. However, I am worried that as a community UVM doesn't have the gumption to aim for such an improvement. Hope I'm wrong.

Go Cats.

[jcarter7669]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

Question for the forum - who is the most successful player more or less asked to leave (meaning they didn't leave early and sign some sort of pro contract) under Sneddon's tenure? I'm going to go with David Pacan. My understanding is that he was asked to leave for complications with under aged drinking and was considered too much of a liability to have on Campus. Mike Adkinson might be a candidate in IMHO. He collected around 50 points playing for QU. He was asked to leave UVM after crashing a car into a building on campus while drunk before playing any games or maybe even starting to practice with the team.

I'd probably say Wahs Stacey or Justin Milo. My $0.02.

[Catamount93]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

I agree, Stacey or Milo.

I'd probably say Wahs Stacey or Justin Milo. My $0.02.

[13617205401]

Re: UVM 2016 Off-Season Thread

I've followed UVM casually for a long time and I will probably start paying closer attention now that one of my kids will be a student there.

I never liked Sneddon's teams when he was at Union. They were consistently one of the least skilled and dirtiest teams in the league - and one of the worst college games I ever saw actually was a game I watched on television between Union and UVM. Nothing but holding, interference, slashing, and cheap shots for 60 minutes. I don't know how the UVM players made it through that game without pulling a Marty McSorley. I've never thought his UVM teams played that way, probably because at the time he made the move he had access to much better players at UVM than he did at Union. To be fair, they did improve while he was there and he probably laid the groundwork for what Leaman accomplished. But I still never liked the way they played and I think it was a reflection on the head coach. My biggest beef with him at UVM is that I've never liked the way he acts and speaks after losses. He thinks nothing of throwing individual guys under the bus, and I think he has a tendency to blame the players when things don't go right without acknowledging that he's the guy who brought them in and is supposed to be teaching them to play. A lot of coaches will go out of their way to shield their players from undue criticism. It's always felt to me like Sneddon does just the opposite.