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MaizeRage
03-22-2016, 01:07 PM
So you'd rather forgo teams like Tech and Minnesota State making the NCAA tournament than have a power conference? If North Dakota, Denver, St. Cloud, and Duluth were still in the WCHA, and Miami still in the CCHA, would Minnesota State or Michigan Tech have made the NCAA tournament last year? No, they wouldn't have.

The same group of players from that MSU team made the NCAA Tournament two years prior in the old WCHA too, but sure, whatever you'd like to imagine.

Spartanforlife4
03-22-2016, 01:10 PM
So you'd rather forgo teams like Tech and Minnesota State making the NCAA tournament than have a power conference? If North Dakota, Denver, St. Cloud, and Duluth were still in the WCHA, and Miami still in the CCHA, would Minnesota State or Michigan Tech have made the NCAA tournament last year? No, they wouldn't have.

Now those school have an additional recruiting tool: come play for us and have a chance to play in the NCAA tournament on the big stage.

Then why not have 10 six team conferences, or 15 four team conferences? Then every school just has to be good for one weekend to make the NCAA tournament.

MaizeRage
03-22-2016, 01:14 PM
Fixed your post. The NCHC won't be joining any combined tournaments. They already have it too good to share, outdrawing both the BIG and WCHA combined.

The NCHC may be in better shape than the other two conferences, but that doesn't take much, and it doesn't mean they're doing great. They claim they're making enough money from the Frozen Faceoff to turn a small profit, but they haven't made enough money to give any back to the member schools yet. They got UMD and SCSU into the tournament this year and lost attendance from the previous year. That gives you a good idea of what the ceiling is for this tournament. They're entirely dependent on North Dakota making the tournament to barely do better than even. That's not a great position to be in, and there's definitely room for improvement.

gfmorris
03-22-2016, 01:17 PM
Then why not have 10 six team conferences, or 15 four team conferences? Then every school just has to be good for one weekend to make the NCAA tournament.

Howdy, y'all.

GFM

TheSiouxFan
03-22-2016, 01:32 PM
The Frozen Faceoff is 90% UND fans. UND hasn't missed a conference tournament in over a decade. We'll take our chances.

TheSiouxFan
03-22-2016, 01:35 PM
The NCHC may be in better shape than the other two conferences, but that doesn't take much, and it doesn't mean they're doing great. They claim they're making enough money from the Frozen Faceoff to turn a small profit, but they haven't made enough money to give any back to the member schools yet. They got UMD and SCSU into the tournament this year and lost attendance from the previous year. That gives you a good idea of what the ceiling is for this tournament. They're entirely dependent on North Dakota making the tournament to barely do better than even. That's not a great position to be in, and there's definitely room for improvement.

It's not even close to the ceiling yet. The ceiling will be once UND is actually in the championship game probably over 15,000....even more once they win one or two in a row.

BleedinBlueLaker93
03-22-2016, 01:36 PM
I have read with interest the comments and I am intrigued by this "mega championship" idea. Would this work for a championship weekend?

Thursday
2 pm - WCHA semi final 1
5 pm - NCHC semi final 1
8 pm - BGT semi final 1

Friday
2 pm - WCHA semi final 2
5 pm - NCHC semi final 2
8 pm - BGT semi final 2

Saturday
2 pm - WCHA Championship
5 pm - NCHC Championship
8 pm - BGT Championship

All can be played in the same building, TV coverage can be fed to various feeds from the arena broadcast system, most ticket scanners are set to read going in and going out now, you would solve the "attendance" issue by giving hockey fans an opportunity to attend other games then their own series and rotate the venue, St Paul, Detroit, Chicago.

Each year you could rotate the various conference games so that one conference is not always playing at 2. If there is OT that pushes up against another start time.....you can push the next start time back. The only thing I don't know about is how would the ice hold up with three games being played on it...anybody have some input on this.

Bale
03-22-2016, 02:01 PM
So you'd rather forgo teams like Tech and Minnesota State making the NCAA tournament than have a power conference? If North Dakota, Denver, St. Cloud, and Duluth were still in the WCHA, and Miami still in the CCHA, would Minnesota State or Michigan Tech have made the NCAA tournament last year? No, they wouldn't have.

Now those school have an additional recruiting tool: come play for us and have a chance to play in the NCAA tournament on the big stage.

Thats just plain ignorant of reality. Msu for sure and probably tech would have made it last year. Msu was the #1 overall seed. It ridiculous to say it was only because of the weakened conference. Msu made it in the last year of the old wcha and were improving. Ferris was in the national championship in 2012 and went again in the 2014 and won a game there.

The reality is that no one knows if it opened up opportunities for these teams. They were already improving and we're be oming players in the old conference. The undeniable reality is that these schools are worse off financially. Leaving out conference tournaments, expenses are up and revenues are down for most/all wcha schools. In the short run they MAY be seeing more on ice success, but whether that creates long term Fina vial stability is highly in doubt.

I'm not certain that the changes have even had unintended benefits as you suggest. It's just too early to know that. I D9 take issue with the blanket assumption that it has benefitted the wcha schools. I think pretty evident that it's a resounding "not at all" and at best a "maybe....a5 some point in the future". I'm all for finding ways to make the conference work as is or re-aligned or whatever, but trying to gloss over reality doesn't do anyone any good.

billmich88888
03-22-2016, 02:03 PM
I have read with interest the comments and I am intrigued by this "mega championship" idea. Would this work for a championship weekend?

Thursday
2 pm - WCHA semi final 1
5 pm - NCHC semi final 1
8 pm - BGT semi final 1

Friday
2 pm - WCHA semi final 2
5 pm - NCHC semi final 2
8 pm - BGT semi final 2

Saturday
2 pm - WCHA Championship
5 pm - NCHC Championship
8 pm - BGT Championship

All can be played in the same building, TV coverage can be fed to various feeds from the arena broadcast system, most ticket scanners are set to read going in and going out now, you would solve the "attendance" issue by giving hockey fans an opportunity to attend other games then their own series and rotate the venue, St Paul, Detroit, Chicago.

Each year you could rotate the various conference games so that one conference is not always playing at 2. If there is OT that pushes up against another start time.....you can push the next start time back. The only thing I don't know about is how would the ice hold up with three games being played on it...anybody have some input on this.

you need 3.5 hours between games
2.5 for the game and 1 hour in between, look at the scheduling of all conference and NCAA double headers.

also, you have to play semis on the same day, cant give one team an extra days rest over another. This also unnecessarily drived up hotel expendetures.

This is a non-starter

Bale
03-22-2016, 02:04 PM
It's not even close to the ceiling yet. The ceiling will be once UND is actually in the championship game probably over 15,000....even more once they win one or two in a row.

So the entire conference is dependant on a single team winning the tournament 2 years in a row? That's not exactly what I'd call a solid business plan.

Iwearpurple
03-22-2016, 02:05 PM
[QUOTE=Arafel;6302478]So you'd rather forgo teams like Tech and Minnesota State making the NCAA tournament than have a power conference? If North Dakota, Denver, St. Cloud, and Duluth were still in the WCHA, and Miami still in the CCHA, would Minnesota State or Michigan Tech have made the NCAA tournament last year? No, they wouldn't have.

Uh. The number 1 team in the pairwise last year would not have made the tournament?????

dxmnkd316
03-22-2016, 02:05 PM
My question about a mega tournament is: Who's going to get the tv rights? right now, three different networks are aligned with the HCHC,WCHA and Big 10. Will they play nice or brawl over who gets to cover what? It could get pretty crowded in the booth and camera positions.

The conference of the teams playing. I'm not saying toss everyone into a single bracket, though that would be a lot of fun.

dxmnkd316
03-22-2016, 02:10 PM
you need 3.5 hours between games
2.5 for the game and 1 hour in between, look at the scheduling of all conference and NCAA double headers.

also, you have to play semis on the same day, cant give one team an extra days rest over another.
this is a non-starter

The WCHA commissioner proposed this being closer to a week-long tournament compared to a three-day tournament.

SJHovey
03-22-2016, 02:15 PM
It's not even close to the ceiling yet. The ceiling will be once UND is actually in the championship game probably over 15,000....even more once they win one or two in a row.No chance. Even in the heyday of the WCHA, with UND playing Minnesota and other traditional rivals, we never saw anything approaching those types of numbers from UND fans.

Candidly, we've probably seen about what we'll see out of UND fan support. If they're not going to come and watch a 30 win team, why will more come in other years?

My fear, as others have expressed, is what happens when UND goes through a stretch like we did in the early to mid-90's. Don't kid yourself. We are destined to see that happen again. That happens, and unless something else has changed, the NCHC is going to be in rough financial shape regarding its tournament.

I actually think the NCHC, certainly more than the current WCHA, would benefit financially from all playoff series being played on campus, as it was when I was in college. The rinks would be jammed. The members of the conference, for the most part, have nice sized rinks.

Take this year for example. Lets say instead of the Frozen Face off, following the first round series, DU traveled to SCSU for a best of 3 and UMD traveled to UND for a best of three. And lets say both series were won in two games by the home team, so the final weekend would be a best of three between SCSU and UND in Grand Forks.

You'd have 10,300 fans see the SCSU-DU games, 23,200 fans see the UMD-UND games, and another 23,200 see the SCSU-UND finals. That's a heck of a lot more than we've seen at Target Center for the weekend. IMHO, that's the way the NCHC needs to go. Was successful for years in the old WCHA.

aparch
03-22-2016, 02:19 PM
GLI final was still available on FSN Detroit and Fox College sports, not to mention it is "NOT" a Big Ten event
Which is fine and well, but that's for TV broadcast. BTN+ was the provider of the webstream, of which they upcharged to view it.

joecct
03-22-2016, 02:25 PM
No chance. Even in the heyday of the WCHA, with UND playing Minnesota and other traditional rivals, we never saw anything approaching those types of numbers from UND fans.

Candidly, we've probably seen about what we we'll see out of UND fan support. If they're not going to come and watch a 30 win team, why will more come in other years?

My fear, as others have expressed, is what happens when UND goes through a stretch like we did in the early to mid-90's. Don't kid yourself. We are destined to see that happen again. That happens, and unless something else has changed, the NCHC is going to be in rough financial shape regarding its tournament.

I actually think the NCHC, certainly more than the current WCHA, would benefit financially from all playoff series being played on campus, as it was when I was in college. The rinks would be jammed. The members of the conference, for the most part, have nice sized rinks.

Take this year for example. Lets say instead of the Frozen Face off, following the first round series, DU traveled to SCSU for a best of 3 and UMD traveled to UND for a best of three. And lets say both series were won in two games by the home team, so the final weekend would be a best of three between SCSU and UND in Grand Forks.

You'd have 10,300 fans see the SCSU-DU games, 23,200 fans see the UMD-UND games, and another 23,200 see the SCSU-UND finals. That's a heck of a lot more than we've seen at Target Center for the weekend. IMHO, that's the way the NCHC needs to go. Was successful for years in the old WCHA.

And they'll even play to a champion (which the old WCHA rarely did)! I think the WCHA should do it too, but they have more travel issues than the NCHC.

Spartanforlife4
03-22-2016, 02:26 PM
Which is fine and well, but that's for TV broadcast. BTN+ was the provider of the webstream, of which they upcharged to view it.

FSGo was also a provider of the stream. Most cable companies offer it for the Fox national and Fox locals you are subscribed to, unless you are with the devil that is Comcast which does not have an agreement with FS Detroit.

Tipsy McStagger
03-22-2016, 02:27 PM
Thats just plain ignorant of reality. Msu for sure and probably tech would have made it last year. Msu was the #1 overall seed. It ridiculous to say it was only because of the weakened conference. Msu made it in the last year of the old wcha and were improving. Ferris was in the national championship in 2012 and went again in the 2014 and won a game there.

The reality is that no one knows if it opened up opportunities for these teams. They were already improving and we're be oming players in the old conference. The undeniable reality is that these schools are worse off financially. Leaving out conference tournaments, expenses are up and revenues are down for most/all wcha schools. In the short run they MAY be seeing more on ice success, but whether that creates long term Fina vial stability is highly in doubt.

I think what he was saying is that if you were to sprinkle North Dakota, Denver, UNO etc. into MSU's schedule last year, where do they end up in the PWR? I don't think it's a stretch to say they aren't the #1 overall seed.

MSU was becoming a player in the WCHA? Before the final year where they got in, it had been like 10 years since they made the tournament. They certainly weren't pushovers but they weren't yearly contenders either. Tech making it to the Final Five was a cause for celebration. They were consistently in the bottom 3 of the conference. Part of the reason for their success now is probably Mel Pearson, but let's not pretend that MTU and MSU were about to take over the old WCHA.

Lastly, and this seems to be something none of the butthurt WCHA fans want to acknowledge, it is the responsibility of YOUR fanbase to support your team. No one feels bad for the little schools that are no longer getting the sweet conference tournament money that was largely brought in by North Dakota, Minnesota, and Michigan fans. It shouldn't be on the bigger schools to subsidize the smaller ones. If the community of Houghton or Bemidji or Sault Ste. Marie can't make their college hockey program profitable or even breakeven, that isn't the fault of the programs that wanted something better for themselves.

SJHovey
03-22-2016, 02:32 PM
I think what he was saying is that if you were to sprinkle North Dakota, Denver, UNO etc. into MSU's schedule last year, where do they end up in the PWR? I don't think it's a stretch to say they aren't the #1 overall seed.Five of MSU and Tech's former conference mates were good enough to make the tournament last year, even ignoring Minnesota. Pretty naive to think that the chances of MSU and Tech to make the tournament, or be the #1 overall seed, weren't affected by conference realignment, notwithstanding the fact that both programs were and are heading in the right direction under their current coaches.

jdmaxim23
03-22-2016, 02:49 PM
I think what he was saying is that if you were to sprinkle North Dakota, Denver, UNO etc. into MSU's schedule last year, where do they end up in the PWR? I don't think it's a stretch to say they aren't the #1 overall seed.

MSU was becoming a player in the WCHA? Before the final year where they got in, it had been like 10 years since they made the tournament. They certainly weren't pushovers but they weren't yearly contenders either. Tech making it to the Final Five was a cause for celebration. They were consistently in the bottom 3 of the conference. Part of the reason for their success now is probably Mel Pearson, but let's not pretend that MTU and MSU were about to take over the old WCHA.

Lastly, and this seems to be something none of the butthurt WCHA fans want to acknowledge, it is the responsibility of YOUR fanbase to support your team. No one feels bad for the little schools that are no longer getting the sweet conference tournament money that was largely brought in by North Dakota, Minnesota, and Michigan fans. It shouldn't be on the bigger schools to subsidize the smaller ones. If the community of Houghton or Bemidji or Sault Ste. Marie can't make their college hockey program profitable or even breakeven, that isn't the fault of the programs that wanted something better for themselves.


BSU has never relied on the bigger schools providing profit for them. Lets remember the facts that BSU had to pay to get into the WCHA and would not see any profits from the tournament for at least 3 years I believe? The WCHA wasnt around long enough after that to send any money their way. So although i understand the bigger ego schools of Denver and UND being frustrated with subsizing the smaller schools, its not fair to group BSU into that category.