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Dirty Dream No. 2
03-12-2016, 08:09 PM
Yikes!

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/06817e4b76c8448693fdd365caecd80f/big-ten-hockey-league-power-felt-more-ice-so-far


The new WCHA is made up of 10 teams holdovers, former CCHA members or independent. The league stretches from Alabama and Alaska, and its travel costs have increased an average of 40 percent since realignment.


The six-figure distributions the old WCHA paid to schools in its heyday significant to small-time athletic departments have dried up the last two years because the league's postseason tournaments have lost money or netted no profit. In addition, smaller schools no longer get the extra ticket revenue they counted on when Big Ten teams regularly visited their arenas.

Would like to know why the new WCHA isn't instituting a one-trip to Alaska limit for schools. If you have to play at both Alaska schools, you do it in a 11 day window instead of making two trips.

The idea of a "new" CCHA is intriguing, but what happens to Tech and Mankato?

Again, screw the Big 14 for destroying college hockey.

Spartanforlife4
03-12-2016, 08:30 PM
Again, no one made the NCHC members leave or forced ND to go to HE.

bravohankins
03-12-2016, 11:55 PM
It's not just WCHA teams that are hurting.

I don't believe Western and Miami can stay in the NCHC long term and survive financially. They have basically traded every home and home bus ride for airplane flights and hotel rooms.

I think you will see a league based of Western, Ferris, BGSU and Miami(OH) along with Robert Morris and whatever other Atlantic Hockey school wants to fund the full limit of scholarships.......RIT?? Maybe one of the Buffalo schools? That will get them to six teams to start and an auto-bid. It would be a 1-2 bid conference, but so is the current WCHA.

Tech and Mankato most likely swallow their pride at being left out and join the NCHC to replace the two eastern most schools. It all makes way more sense financially. What happens to NMU and LSSU?? not sure.....either way they have big travel.

With the education budget issues in Alaska already, and their poor attendance, its not too far fetched to see one or both of those programs gone from the landscape. How long can they foot the bill for all those visitor trips in??

JohnsonsJerseys
03-13-2016, 12:45 AM
what happens to Tech and Mankato?
Everyone keeps bringing up travel costs in the WCHA but I don't see how they are really that much worse than the old WCHA. Was the old Final Five a cash cow for the league? Yes. Travel was not cheap in the old WCHA either.

Changing leagues is not going to cut Tech's travel costs. Give up Alaska and Alabama for two trips to Colorado and another to Omaha? Where is the huge savings? If we assume you have 30 people to travel for a road game and it's $500 per plane ticket, that's $15 less the cost of the usual bus rental. Everything else (meals, hotels, etc) is a constant regardless of destination. So maybe you're spending an extra $15k for a plane vs bus trip once a year for AK. If you can't float another $15k per year, why are you in DI hockey? That's not even as much as the gate take for one home game. You go to AK, you get another home game if you want it - budget problem solved.

Ryan

SiouxFanatic
03-13-2016, 01:04 AM
Tech and Mankato most likely swallow their pride at being left out and join the NCHC to replace the two eastern most schools. It all makes way more sense financially.
It'd be Bemidji and Mankato if anything.

davyd83
03-13-2016, 01:12 AM
Everyone keeps bringing up travel costs in the WCHA but I don't see how they are really that much worse than the old WCHA. Was the old Final Five a cash cow for the league? Yes. Travel was not cheap in the old WCHA either.

Changing leagues is not going to cut Tech's travel costs. Give up Alaska and Alabama for two trips to Colorado and another to Omaha? Where is the huge savings? If we assume you have 30 people to travel for a road game and it's $500 per plane ticket, that's $15 less the cost of the usual bus rental. Everything else (meals, hotels, etc) is a constant regardless of destination. So maybe you're spending an extra $15k for a plane vs bus trip once a year for AK. If you can't float another $15k per year, why are you in DI hockey? That's not even as much as the gate take for one home game. You go to AK, you get another home game if you want it - budget problem solved.

Ryanthe plane tickets to Fairbanks cost over $1000 plus baggage fees from Marquette. I flew separate from the team and on a different airline and my ticket was about $700 plus baggage.

davyd83
03-13-2016, 01:24 AM
Yikes!

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/06817e4b76c8448693fdd365caecd80f/big-ten-hockey-league-power-felt-more-ice-so-far



Would like to know why the new WCHA isn't instituting a one-trip to Alaska limit for schools. If you have to play at both Alaska schools, you do it in a 11 day window instead of making two trips.

The idea of a "new" CCHA is intriguing, but what happens to Tech and Mankato?

Again, screw the Big 14 for destroying college hockey.If you put a one trip to Alaska per team max out there, then each Alaska school board only host five teams and play only 10 games. As for the 11 day trip, the teams that do it usually do it in conjunction with spring break, semester break, or Thanksgiving break. The Alaska schools also like to make a two weekends trip of their own or two to the lower 48. So you really are limited in the number of chew weekend trips that could be made to Alaska.

BGFan
03-13-2016, 01:26 AM
It's not just WCHA teams that are hurting.

I don't believe Western and Miami can stay in the NCHC long term and survive financially. They have basically traded every home and home bus ride for airplane flights and hotel rooms.

I think you will see a league based of Western, Ferris, BGSU and Miami(OH) along with Robert Morris and whatever other Atlantic Hockey school wants to fund the full limit of scholarships.......RIT?? Maybe one of the Buffalo schools? That will get them to six teams to start and an auto-bid. It would be a 1-2 bid conference, but so is the current WCHA.

Tech and Mankato most likely swallow their pride at being left out and join the NCHC to replace the two eastern most schools. It all makes way more sense financially. What happens to NMU and LSSU?? not sure.....either way they have big travel.

With the education budget issues in Alaska already, and their poor attendance, its not too far fetched to see one or both of those programs gone from the landscape. How long can they foot the bill for all those visitor trips in??
NMU and LSSU were both in the old CCHA, I don't see why they wouldn't be invited to be in a new CCHA.

LSSULaker889294
03-13-2016, 03:11 AM
The most logical thing IMO is Western and Miami go to the WCHA with Mankato and Bemidji go to the NCHC. Then add Robert Morris and Niagara to make it 12 teams with two divisions of 12 teams each with one Alaska school in each division....

North Division: LSSU, NMU, MTU, FSU, WMU, UA
South Division: BGSU, MU, UAH, RMU, NU, UAA

beaverhockey
03-13-2016, 03:21 AM
Everyone keeps bringing up travel costs in the WCHA but I don't see how they are really that much worse than the old WCHA. Was the old Final Five a cash cow for the league? Yes. Travel was not cheap in the old WCHA either.

Changing leagues is not going to cut Tech's travel costs. Give up Alaska and Alabama for two trips to Colorado and another to Omaha? Where is the huge savings? If we assume you have 30 people to travel for a road game and it's $500 per plane ticket, that's $15 less the cost of the usual bus rental. Everything else (meals, hotels, etc) is a constant regardless of destination. So maybe you're spending an extra $15k for a plane vs bus trip once a year for AK. If you can't float another $15k per year, why are you in DI hockey? That's not even as much as the gate take for one home game. You go to AK, you get another home game if you want it - budget problem solved.

Ryan

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My opinion is that you couldn't be more wrong. It is substantially more expensive for 90% of the WCHA members now than it was for 90% of the WCHA members from the old WCHA.

For the following, 1 day = 10 hours (the law for 1 bus driver in a day)

Bemidji, North Dakota, Duluth, St Cloud, Mankato, Tech, Omaha, Wisconsin...could bus to each other in 1 day in the old WCHA.

For the current WCHA:

Bemidji, Mankato, Tech, Northern can bus to each other now in 1 day.

Ferris, Lake State, BG can bus to each other in 1 day.

BG, and Huntsville can bus to each other in 1 day

Alaska and Anchorage can bus...but fly cheaply to each other

EVERY other trip for a league member now is a flight or 2 days on a bus with hotel for an extra day or a sleeper bus and all the added costs involved with that (2 drivers, etc).

How is it not any more expensive for most of the league...when you had 8 teams within 10 hours of each other before...and now you have at most four?

joecct
03-13-2016, 06:34 AM
Isn't attendance down in both the NCHC, WCHA & B1G compared to the old WCHA & CCHA days?

Ancient rivalries were destroyed in favor of cash.

And playing what the heck, if raiding AHA is on style..

Far West conference: ASU, USAFA, CC, DU, AK, UAA
WCHA3: UNO, UND, BSU, SCSU, UMM, UMD, MTU
CCHA2: UAH, BGSU, FSU, WMU, NMU, LSSU, MIA

It's ugly, but ancient rivalries restored, travel reduced, money can be made, though the FWC does make me wince and filling OOC for some of the FWC schools may be an issue.

AKSWF
03-13-2016, 08:16 AM
Would like to know why the new WCHA isn't instituting a one-trip to Alaska limit for schools. If you have to play at both Alaska schools, you do it in a 11 day window instead of making two trips.

Again, screw the Big 14 for destroying college hockey.

This is exactly what I had said upon the nWCHA, but it wasn't met with rave reviews from my fellow fans and the nWCHA fellas.

IrishHockeyFan
03-13-2016, 09:03 AM
Again, no one made the NCHC members leave or forced ND to go to HE.

A misconception here needs to be corrected. No where will you find anything that says Notre Dame wanted to go anywhere when all of this was happening. They in fact were the last team to land. It was only when the NCHC was being formed and Miami (and later Western Michigan) indicated they would leave the CCHA -- leaving it in an untenable position whether or not Notre Dame was a part of it -- that Notre Dame began to consider finding a new league was in its best interest. Jeff Jackson repeatedly stated that his first choice was that the CCHA remain a viable league, something that was probably possible with the 8 teams that remained. When the NCHC formed, Notre Dame briefly considered that to be the best spot for them. But a pizzing match with the power structure there over TV contracts was in the offing and only after MU, WMU and the NCHC announced partnerships and the TV tussle ensued did Notre Dame decide to accept the Hockey East invitation. Any other interpretation of the way the events unfolded might be fun, but they ain't correct.

davyd83
03-13-2016, 09:33 AM
This is exactly what I had said upon the nWCHA, but it wasn't met with rave reviews from my fellow fans and the nWCHA fellas.

The savings aren't as great as you'd think when you add an extra 4 days of hotels, meals, ice rental, workout facilities, etc. Then you add that an 11 day trip means you have to find activities for the players or they get stuck spending a lot of hotel time. That 11 day trip, as any 11 day trip anywhere for anyone, is extremely fatiguing. I know of a couple coaches who have done it and thought it was a good idea at the time, but would rather do two trips the next time they double dip Alaska.

alfablue
03-13-2016, 09:48 AM
A misconception here needs to be corrected. No where will you find anything that says Notre Dame wanted to go anywhere when all of this was happening. They in fact were the last team to land. It was only when the NCHC was being formed and Miami (and later Western Michigan) indicated they would leave the CCHA -- leaving it in an untenable position whether or not Notre Dame was a part of it -- that Notre Dame began to consider finding a new league was in its best interest. Jeff Jackson repeatedly stated that his first choice was that the CCHA remain a viable league, something that was probably possible with the 8 teams that remained. When the NCHC formed, Notre Dame briefly considered that to be the best spot for them. But a pizzing match with the power structure there over TV contracts was in the offing and only after MU, WMU and the NCHC announced partnerships and the TV tussle ensued did Notre Dame decide to accept the Hockey East invitation. Any other interpretation of the way the events unfolded might be fun, but they ain't correct.

How about just rephrasing it to - the WCHA and the CCHA didn't have to break apart- they had two solid conferences even after losing 2 or 3 teams... That way, nobody is accused of being greedy (other than the B1G)... :)

It's one thing for a set of teams that are in a larger conference to be a hockey conference, it's another for teams to go out and form a conference because other teams are not willing to put hockey on some kind of mountain.

alfablue
03-13-2016, 09:53 AM
BTW- while this maybe the opposite of what people see the WCHA doing, but a reasonable option is to help other western schools get hockey going.

There are some out there- similar to how ASU *might* get some P12 schools going. But that would let the WCHA split east/west, and be big enough to not force all teams to travel to Alaska more than once a year.

That's not going to help the tournament at all, as you get a bunch of new small schools. But that does get you less travel, with a TV deal, more eyes, etc. And there are western schools that want to add hockey. Well, I know of one. But it's a long, long way off.

IrishHockeyFan
03-13-2016, 10:11 AM
How about just rephrasing it to - the WCHA and the CCHA didn't have to break apart- they had two solid conferences even after losing 2 or 3 teams... That way, nobody is accused of being greedy (other than the B1G)... :)

It's one thing for a set of teams that are in a larger conference to be a hockey conference, it's another for teams to go out and form a conference because other teams are not willing to put hockey on some kind of mountain.

Spot on. I actually never even thought the B1G deserved "blame" for what happened in college hockey. Sure they got the dominoes falling but the real issue was always the formation of the NCHC and how the other teams decided to deal with that. While I don't think the B1G hockey conference has necessarily been good for the 6 teams in it, I don't think it has been bad for college hockey.

Miss the back and forth with you UM posters, by the way. I never post anymore and only even occasionally lurk. I actually came online to see how my fellow Irish hockey fans were reacting to our *ahem* efforts this weekend and see we don't even have an active thread! Your boys showed up at both ends of the ice this weekend. Had to give the team a jolt of confidence heading into the postseason.

alfablue
03-13-2016, 10:15 AM
Miss the back and forth with you UM posters, by the way. I never post anymore and only even occasionally lurk. I actually came online to see how my fellow Irish hockey fans were reacting to our *ahem* efforts this weekend and see we don't even have an active thread! Your boys showed up at both ends of the ice this weekend. Had to give the team a jolt of confidence heading into the postseason.

Me, too. And I miss getting together with fellow CCHA fans in Detroit every year. At the moment, the B1G does nothing compared to what little the CCHA did to promote the tournament. So we meet and BS with nobody.

It is what it is....

davyd83
03-13-2016, 10:25 AM
Spot on. I actually never even thought the B1G deserved "blame" for what happened in college hockey. Sure they got the dominoes falling but the real issue was always the formation of the NCHC and how the other teams decided to deal with that. While I don't think the B1G hockey conference has necessarily been good for the 6 teams in it, I don't think it has been bad for college hockey.

Miss the back and forth with you UM posters, by the way. I never post anymore and only even occasionally lurk. I actually came online to see how my fellow Irish hockey fans were reacting to our *ahem* efforts this weekend and see we don't even have an active thread! Your boys showed up at both ends of the ice this weekend. Had to give the team a jolt of confidence heading into the postseason.
If it hasn't been bad for college hockey, why is attendance down at at least half the schools in the B10, NCHC and WCHA? Why is conference attendance dropped so much? Why do the so called "Big Time" programs refuse to visit the smaller schools without at least a 2 for 1 deal?

Huskiefan906
03-13-2016, 10:27 AM
Far West conference: ASU, USAFA, CC, DU, AK, UAA
WCHA3: UNO, UND, BSU, SCSU, UMM, UMD, MTU
CCHA2: UAH, BGSU, FSU, WMU, NMU, LSSU, MIA

It's ugly, but ancient rivalries restored, travel reduced, money can be made, though the FWC does make me wince and filling OOC for some of the FWC schools may be an issue.

I would hope MTU, Minnesota State, and Bemidji would not even consider joining that Motley group. The only team in that mix Tech has any affinity for is UMD besides its current WCHA brethren.

I am not sure what will happen, but that proposal stinks in my opinion.