UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

[Dan]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

OK we will have to disagree on that last bit then.

Hey, no hard feelings, but we'll have to disagree on all of it. He was GREAT until opponents realized he was ALONE - his superior skill level was evident every time he touched the puck and even late in the season, guys just couldn't take the puck off his stick when he got free. We've talked about this roster all year. When team's realized what an extraordinary jump he made from his freshman season, they did everything the could to stop him and force someone else to beat them. They took that strategy farther than you could in most situations - because NO ONE else on the team could beat them. He still scored a point per game in the second half and he won't have to worry about that strategy as much at the next level because he wont be the ONLY player on his team with professional talent...

He was absolutely a Hobey worthy candidate considering what he accomplished this year with a terrible supporting cast. You know what. I think he should win! I think he was clearly the most valuable and dominant individual in college hockey. He obviously won't win because his numbers were limited by his teammates and UNH was a well below .500 team, but if you swap him out with Compher at UM or Schmalz at UND he puts up 65-70 points - and no I don't think that is hyperbole. Can you imagine Poturalski centering Motte & Connor or Boeser and Caggiula? OMG...

All three Michigan forwards are going to be Hobey Finalists - could they have earned the same playing at UNH with out the others?? Hobey's don't win Hobey's alone...

I noticed plenty of moments over the course of the season, including late in the second half where Poturalski not only refused to back down from the physical attention - but instigated it.

He's slim and that may turn out to be a problem - but it was going to be an issue for him and his career whenever it began. The only way he car refute that is by going pro and playing through it. Coming back to UNH as a 23 year old junior wouldn't do the trick. He knows this and will certainly try to add as much weight as he can. He can do that just as well - and maybe even better - in Charlotte. He's commented many times on the work he's putting into building his two-way game. I'm sure that work will amplify at the pro level. That's likely where he needs to be to truly develop that side of his game anyway...

He has absolutely nothing left to prove at this level - staying can only hurt him physically or perceptually. He's ready to skate a regular shift as a top-six AHLer tomorrow. You keep bringing up his injury - but if he was able to battle through it to play for UNH - planning on a procedure when the season ended - what difference does it make if he plays 10 more games before taking care of the issue? In my opinion his injury is irrelevant to his decision to leave. Its only relevance would be to prove that he has toughness and leadership qualities by playing through it in the first place...

Finally, take a look at some of the recent (comparable) UNH professionals...

* Downing leads the Iowa Wild in scoring and will get a chance in MN sometime soon
* Thompson & Sislo are scoring at high rates in the AHL and have recently debuted in the NHL
* Moses led the Swedish Elite League in scoring

Poturalski is a better offensive talent than all of them and I have no doubt he'll continue to work on his two-way play. Downing coasted a lot in college and its not like Moses is some giant defensive whiz. Thompson and Sislo have grittier games certainly - but they had to have that side to them. Well very good - they are not gifted offensively. If a team is going to give Moses an guaranteed NHL deal than Poturalski can certainly earn one. He's bigger and better. He'll be an easy AHLer - with a real chance to make the NHL. If he has to settle for torching the SEL and KHL like Moses, that's nothing to frown upon...

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

And even tho the ECHL is viewed as a much 'lesser league' than its upper level teams, Matt Willows is doing very well leading scorers for the Everblades. Of course I would say that. Personally I do wish Pots well and even tho it was alittle bit of a shock to see it initially he's headed for better things. Agree Dan that he (Pots) has his work cut out for him but that's why he's going in the first place. Top notch conditioning and coaching awaits and he will be playing I believe as soon as this weekend....He's ready. Not that we couldn't use him next season mind you...

We will pick up the pieces and move on. Totally agree the 'bright spot' here is there are a few forwards on this team now, and some coming in, that IF they get their shot and IF they are on lines that work (and it doesn't take 3/4 of the season to find out) we will be ok....I echo Snively in not feeling despondent. I'm way beyond those 'feelings' now...haha. You guys 'in the know' need to keep bringing good info here with recruits etc...UNH is on a rebuild officially; all is not lost.

Ps. Cool news that Grayson D is doing so well with the Wild...

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Can I also use this as an opportunity to rail against the stupid deferral process. I know Poturalski seemed to be the one who wanted to defer, but not taking the kids early has cost UNH (1) only getting Poturalski for 2 years, instead of 3, and (2) losing kids like Laleggia and Vecchione because they were deferred. (I will note Foegele was brought in on schedule, and that didn't work out that well.

I hope UNH uses this opportunity to take a top kid early. Any kid wanting to explore options because they can't get into another school, or a coaching change at the school causes them to look around, get ready to jump on them. Who cares if they are useless the first year, getting stronger and getting used to hockey. Rebuilding provides that flexibility. Build a foundation for 2017-2019. Get a top 99 kid from Canada and tell them they can come in immediately and play meaningful minutes. Right now that is your only advantage over the good to medium teams of the NCAA world.

If they go down the 2009 route of replacing White and Bourque with the 20 year old Austin Blocks and Jay Campers of the world -- just so UNH is not without depth next year -- I will scream. You are aspiring to competence rather than as Trump would say: "making UNH great again"

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

2015-16	2016-17	2017-18	2018-19	2019-20
Dan Correale	Liam Blackburn	Liam Blackburn	Liam Blackburn	Liam Blackburn
Max Gaudreault	BVR	BVR	BVR	BVR
Collin McDonald	Patrick Grasso	Patrick Grasso	Patrick Grasso	Patrick Grasso
Kyle Smith	Justin Fregona	Justin Fregona	Justin Fregona	Justin Fregona
Jamie Hill	Jamie Hill	Eric MacAdams	Eric MacAdams	Eric MacAdams
T.Kelleher	T.Kelleher	J.Cipollone	J.Cipollone	J.Cipollone
C.Bourque	Joe Sacco	Joe Sacco	Joe Sacco	Joe Sacco
Andrew Poturalski	TBD	TBD	TBD	TBD
Warren Foegele	Charlie Kelleher	Charlie Kelleher	Charlie Kelleher	Charlie Kelleher
Shane Eiserman	Shane Eiserman	Shane Eiserman	Eric Esposito	Eric Esposito
M.McNicholas	M.McNicholas	M.McNicholas	Jason O'Neill	Jason O'Neill
J.Salvaggio	J.Salvaggio	J.Salvaggio	A. O'Neill	A. O'Neill
Marcus Vela	Marcus Vela	Marcus Vela	Marcus Vela	TBD
A. Nazarian	A. Nazarian	A. Nazarian	A. Nazarian	TBD
Chris Miller	Chris Miller	Chris Miller	Chris Miller	TBD
J. Kalinowski	TBD	TBD	TBD	TBD
Harry Quast	Anthony Wyse	Anthony Wyse	Anthony Wyse	Anthony Wyse
Matias Cleland	Matias Cleland	TBD	TBD	TBD
Dylan Maller	Dylan Maller	Liam Darcy	Liam Darcy	Liam Darcy
John Furgele	John Furgele	John Furgele	TBD	TBD
Cam Marks	Cam Marks	Cam Marks	TBD	TBD
Rich Boyd	Rich Boyd	Rich Boyd	TBD	TBD
Dylan Chanter	Dylan Chanter	Dylan Chanter	Corson Green	Corson Green
Matt Dawson	Matt Dawson	Matt Dawson	Matt Dawson	TBD

[CatsFan1983]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

A rough couple of weeks + $150,000 signing bonus + good contract + chance to live a dream = hard to say no

oh well.

So Scoreboard was a little sarcastic with his response back to me but I guess he kind of missed my point. In Jan/Feb he was pretty much onboard for another year, wanted to gain some size and fill out/develop another year physically a little bit while trying to finish his degree in three years. Someone told me the week before the Merrimack series he had changed his tone and was way less committed to staying another year. Numerous factors go into a decision like that, but my point was something changed in those 3-6 weeks.

[JB]

So Scoreboard was a little sarcastic with his response back to me but I guess he kind of missed my point. In Jan/Feb he was pretty much onboard for another year, wanted to gain some size and fill out/develop another year physically a little bit while trying to finish his degree in three years. Someone told me the week before the Merrimack series he had changed his tone and was way less committed to staying another year. Numerous factors go into a decision like that, but my point was something changed in those 3-6 weeks.

Gotta love the backpedaling

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

UNH had All American goalies almost every year. We no longer do. Why? Because, after Lassonde left, we didn't have an assistant who recognized the raw ability that makes a good goalie and we had no one who could teach them fine points of the position. I know I am going to get pushback from this comment, but hockey is a results oriented business and the results the past few years have not been good.

This statement shows that you know not of what you speak! DL knew talent and I"m sure he probably was a positive for the goalies. But knowing talent and bringing that talent to Durham are 2 very different things. And then there's bringing that All American to Durham with a BU/BC type arrangement is still another. This is contrary to the truth! This is pure fiction!

??? Dave Lassonde knew talent? Well yes. He was a goalie as a player, he was an instructor at goalie camps and, when goalies got to UNH, he made them better when they left than when they entered. He recruited and coached the likes of Matile, Conklin, Ayers, Pietrisiak, Foster, and Regan, all who see records at UNH and many of whom were All-Americans. Last time I checked, he was doing this while competing against the likes of Maine, BC, and BU all of which won national championships during DL's time at UNH. Somehow he was able to succeed. Scott Borek? I suppose he knows a good goalie when he sees one but, because he was not a goalie nor a goalie coach, he would have to leave the coaching to others. But that wouldn't preclude him from going after these guys, just like Lassonde did, despite the supposed invincible aura of BC and BU. When I read your comment to me it seems just another in a line of lame excuses.

[bomberhockey]

??? Dave Lassonde knew talent? Well yes. He was a goalie as a player, he was an instructor at goalie camps and, when goalies got to UNH, he made them better when they left than when they entered. He recruited and coached the likes of Matile, Conklin, Ayers, Pietrisiak, Foster, and Regan, all who see records at UNH and many of whom were All-Americans. Last time I checked, he was doing this while competing against the likes of Maine, BC, and BU all of which won national championships during DL's time at UNH. Somehow he was able to succeed. Scott Borek? I suppose he knows a good goalie when he sees one but, because he was not a goalie nor a goalie coach, he would have to leave the coaching to others. But that wouldn't preclude him from going after these guys, just like Lassonde did, despite the supposed invincible aura of BC and BU. When I read your comment to me it seems just another in a line of lame excuses.

The only problem with your proclamation is that not only did DL have nothing to do with initially recruiting, Regan and Foster, he had to be talked into them, he initially didn't want them or CDS. Those 3 turned out to be pretty good net minders don't you think?
That is a fact, just because you don't like SB for whatever reason, don't make things up!

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

So Scoreboard was a little sarcastic with his response back to me but I guess he kind of missed my point. In Jan/Feb he was pretty much onboard for another year, wanted to gain some size and fill out/develop another year physically a little bit while trying to finish his degree in three years. Someone told me the week before the Merrimack series he had changed his tone and was way less committed to staying another year. Numerous factors go into a decision like that, but my point was something changed in those 3-6 weeks.

He just wasn't the same player at UNH, once they returned after the break.

In retrospect, one would think a little birdie (or 19 birdies) may have visited with his advisor, and there was a shift of focus from putting out and winning games for the program, to preserving himself for the eventual payoff he received earlier this week. And considering the purported level of interest, the $185,000 signing bonus and two year, two-way entry level deal doesn't strike me as that great a deal ...

http://www.seacoastonline.com/articl.../NEWSLETTER100

Let's compare that to what UFA junior Danny DeKeyser (Western Michigan 3 yrs. ago) and senior Jason Krog (UNH 17 yrs. ago) fared with their original NHL deals:

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.s...an_deke_1.html

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments...danny-dekeyser

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...les_sign_krog/

To recap - DeKeyser opted to stick around for his junior season at WMU, despite receiving more interest and better offers than Poturalski after their respective sophomore seasons. Like Poturalski, DeKeyser felt he needed another season to get stronger physically. And when the end of his junior season arrived, his patience, focus, commitment and dedication led to even better contract offers that landed him directly in the NHL from Day One. In all respects, he was/is a better player than Poturalski. But he waited, and it paid off ... big time.

And Krog, who was the same age, had a similar physical build, and a very similar uptick at UNH after his soph season as Poturalski, put in four years at UNH, avoided the "risk of injury", and was rewarded to the tune of $2MM plus bonuses when he signed with the Islanders after his graduation from UNH. And again, that was seventeen (17) years ago.

Just seems to me like Poturalski was pretty eager to leave, and if he had more faith in his abilities - or in fairness, more faith in his UNH coaches' capacity to further develop his abilities - waiting another year or two could have netted him a significantly better deal than the one he just got. But what's done is done, so sayonara Poturalski.

[zoofer]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

CatsFan83, the signing bonus and a 2-way contract might sound great but unless he was in dire need of the money, leaving early puts him into the minor league pool, where you can drown awful fast! Chances are your contract says you have to play 40 games in the Apple to get the upper money level, so at 35-36-37 you'll be brought back down for some obtuse reason.....next year is promised to no one......sure there are more options now with Europe for a few players but on the whole, many a scout will tell you to stay in school (off the record).....this obviously does not apply to the Eichels of the world!

[bomberhockey]

??? Dave Lassonde knew talent? Well yes. He was a goalie as a player, he was an instructor at goalie camps and, when goalies got to UNH, he made them better when they left than when they entered. He recruited and coached the likes of Matile, Conklin, Ayers, Pietrisiak, Foster, and Regan, all who see records at UNH and many of whom were All-Americans. Last time I checked, he was doing this while competing against the likes of Maine, BC, and BU all of which won national championships during DL's time at UNH. Somehow he was able to succeed. Scott Borek? I suppose he knows a good goalie when he sees one but, because he was not a goalie nor a goalie coach, he would have to leave the coaching to others. But that wouldn't preclude him from going after these guys, just like Lassonde did, despite the supposed invincible aura of BC and BU. When I read your comment to me it seems just another in a line of lame excuses.

And please don't tell Borek recruited them from a bantam b team and DL coached them up. And what I meant in the 1st post was not only did Borek bring them in, but he got them at substantially less than other programs were offering. I'm the only one making an argument(excuses) for Borek he didn't, until the day he left he felt he had a superior product and sold it as such! The things I mention, pay, facilities, workload, were real things all this staff were and are aware of and dealt with, but that's not what Borek presented to PSAs, as I'm sure he's doing now at PC. You want to hang all the bad on him, yet there were some pretty sought after players that he committed here, some didn't actually get here for one reason or another, but many did. In the end he did his job here and as much as you don't believe it he did some other's jobs as well. Am I an SB defender absolutely, he might have been his own worst enemy, had he just let things get exposed back when they naturally would have been instead of covering up. He did everything in his power, including using his personal resources when budget dried up to get the best players he could in blue and white for Us loyal UNH hockey fans! Did he make mistakes on recruits, absolutely, of course he did!
He's certainly moved on and now simply coaches and recruits. all the other things he and the other UNH staff have to do has been eliminated from his plate at PC!
Only a look a ways down the road in the rear view mirrors will show whether he was effective here or not. But few are going to even look at it or care because he was just an assistant! An assistant that has been assigned a lot of criticism while he was here and even more since he's left.

[Felger]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

He just wasn't the same player at UNH, once they returned after the break.

In retrospect, one would think a little birdie (or 19 birdies) may have visited with his advisor, and there was a shift of focus from putting out and winning games for the program, to preserving himself for the eventual payoff he received earlier this week. And considering the purported level of interest, the $185,000 signing bonus and two year, two-way entry level deal doesn't strike me as that great a deal ...

http://www.seacoastonline.com/articl.../NEWSLETTER100

Let's compare that to what UFA junior Danny DeKeyser (Western Michigan 3 yrs. ago) and senior Jason Krog (UNH 17 yrs. ago) fared with their original NHL deals:

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.s...an_deke_1.html

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments...danny-dekeyser

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...les_sign_krog/

To recap - DeKeyser opted to stick around for his junior season at WMU, despite receiving more interest and better offers than Poturalski after their respective sophomore seasons. Like Poturalski, DeKeyser felt he needed another season to get stronger physically. And when the end of his junior season arrived, his patience, focus, commitment and dedication led to even better contract offers that landed him directly in the NHL from Day One. In all respects, he was/is a better player than Poturalski. But he waited, and it paid off ... big time.

And Krog, who was the same age, had a similar physical build, and a very similar uptick at UNH after his soph season as Poturalski, put in four years at UNH, avoided the "risk of injury", and was rewarded to the tune of $2MM plus bonuses when he signed with the Islanders after his graduation from UNH. And again, that was seventeen (17) years ago.

Just seems to me like Poturalski was pretty eager to leave, and if he had more faith in his abilities - or in fairness, more faith in his UNH coaches' capacity to further develop his abilities - waiting another year or two could have netted him a significantly better deal than the one he just got. But what's done is done, so sayonara Poturalski.

You have outlined some of the reasons well, but I wanted to add a couple others.

Lets not forget that those first half numbers came against a less than stellar schedule that even the footie pajama wearing UNH fans had to admit was soft.

Also, I read an early Hobey Baker column back in December that posited that Poturalski's numbers would go down once he was playing in league contests since HE had several of the nation's top goaltenders. And as we have learned from these threads in the last couple days the "Three Stars of the Game" is the best metric for determining star players, and the top four players in that category in HE are all goalies.

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Peace. We have a sense of what led us here.
For better or worse, there is just one more domino to fall, and then we'll have a sense of how the new regime will work out. Let's hope Mike is thoughtful enough to analyze the flaws in his mentor, not be narrow minded, and not make the same mistakes. And find a head recruiter with the connections so that he's not caught flat footed.

To go back to a meme that Chuck will understand

He's got to make his own mistakes
And learn to mend the mess he makes
He's old enough to know what's right
But young enough not to choose it
He's noble enough to win the world
But weak enough to lose it
He's a New World Man...

.....

He's not concerned with yesterday
He knows constant change is here today
He's noble enough to know what's right
But weak enough not to choose it
He's wise enough to win the world
But fool enough to lose it
He's a New World Man...

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Lets not forget that those first half numbers came against a less than stellar schedule that even the footie pajama wearing UNH fans had to admit was soft.

That made me laugh out loud, Felger. I hope e.cat doesn't take too much offense at that ...

Peace. We have a sense of what led us here.

For better or worse, there is just one more domino to fall, and then we'll have a sense of how the new regime will work out. Let's hope Mike is thoughtful enough to analyze the flaws in his mentor, not be narrow minded, and not make the same mistakes. And find a head recruiter with the connections so that he's not caught flat footed.

To go back to a meme that Chuck will understand

He's got to make his own mistakes
And learn to mend the mess he makes
He's old enough to know what's right
But young enough not to choose it
He's noble enough to win the world
But weak enough to lose it
He's a New World Man...

.....

He's not concerned with yesterday
He knows constant change is here today
He's noble enough to know what's right
But weak enough not to choose it
He's wise enough to win the world
But fool enough to lose it
He's a New World Man...

'Watcher again reinforces my long-held belief that any issue can be analyzed through the use of Rush lyrics.

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

The deferral process is just one of many Talent Management techniques used by Umile that mystify me. It obviously plays off his distrust of younger players (younger meaning under 30) but I think it’s also part of his depth fetish, aka quantity over quality. He can’t bring in a kid who can’t play next year – not true, but in his mind it is – if it means being caught short a 4th or 5th liner. Stating the obvious here but he absolutely loves those generic, no ceiling, grinders. He can’t give them up, even if it means deferring true talent, and the risk of loss that brings into the picture.

Deferrals also shows how out of touch he is with today’s younger players. Most of these kids have been playing up since they were Squirts, have had their parent’s phones ringing off the hook to be on any number of regular season and Spring teams since they were 10, had every prep and junior team contacting them, and now have big time college coaches waiting outside their locker room door every time they play at 15 and 16. They’re ready, they know they’re ready, and everyone in the hockey world has been telling them they’re ready, for years and years, and now this guy wants me to wait? He’s either too out of touch, too arrogant, or both to see or accept the way things are now.

Other questionable tactics:
• Splitting scholarships. 3 ponies don’t equal a horse – see his love of grinders above. As Dan pointed out earlier, 18 scholarships, used as fulls, should be more than enough to bring in high end talent.
• Only team in HE to never have a European. Why? UNH is so successful they don’t need to try everything?
• Why not try the load up on one class technique, at least once. Go all in on one 10 -12 man class and hope they do some damage as juniors and seniors. Not the ideal method, but wasn’t it worth a shot at some point?
• Stockpiling a roster of 25+ guys - detracts from being a tight knit team, no camaraderie – and leads to deferrals and partials.

I guess the summary would be, in my opinion, he uses the wrong strategies to begin with, won’t move off them when they’re shown not to work or stop working, and is unwilling to be creative or exhaust all available options, even when what he’s doing clearly isn’t enough or isn’t working at all.