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Dutchman
02-07-2016, 01:26 PM
Within the ECAC, there are six Ivy League Schools. Harvard, Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell and Princeton. Each year, in addition to the ECAC Championship, they compete for the Ivy League Championship in Hockey. Four of the other teams in the ECAC compete primarily in the Liberty League in most other D-III sports. These are St. Lawrence, Clarkson, RPI and Union. (There are other Liberty League teams that compete in D-III hockey). Other ECAC teams like Colgate compete primarily in the Patriot League and Quinnipiac which competes primarily in the MAAC (Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference). These are both D-1.

This past weekend the Liberty league D-1 hockey members all faced off for the last time this season. If we had a Liberty League D-1 Hockey Championship, who would win it this year? We would have to calculate the wins and losses by each team against the other three teams. Should we also count non-conference? What about possible playoff meetings? Do we need a trophy?

Ralph Baer
02-07-2016, 01:40 PM
Don't forget RIT.

Dutchman
02-07-2016, 02:23 PM
"The Ivy League recognizes ice hockey champions for both sexes, but it does not sponsor the sport; it instead uses the results of regular-season ECAC Hockey matches involving two Ivy League schools to extrapolate an Ivy champion (all six Ivy League schools that sponsor varsity hockey do so for both men and women, and compete in the ECAC). The Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference-sponsored D-I men's hockey, but dropped the sport in 2003."

So we could just take the regular season matchups and extrapolate a winner. How do we include RIT in this? We all need to schedule RIT as an exhibition? Move RIT into the ECAC?

Dutchman
02-07-2016, 02:24 PM
Don't forget RIT.

Anyone else beside RIT ?? Not really.

"As of the current 2015–16 season, the NCAA's top level has 60 teams. Twenty-one schools are Division II or III athletic programs that "play up" to Division I in hockey, and 16 schools that are full Division I members are in the Football Bowl Subdivision, 6 of which compete in the Big Ten Conference."

Dutchman
02-07-2016, 05:06 PM
A member conference of the NCAA’s Division III, The Liberty League has ten full members and sponsors championships in 26 sports. The member institutions of the league place the highest priority on the overall quality of the educational experience and on the successful completion of its student-athletes’ academic programs. The member institutions seek to establish and maintain an environment in which a student-athlete’s athletic activities are conducted as an integral part of the educational experience.

Originally founded as the Upstate Collegiate Athletic Association in 1995, the conference was renamed the Liberty League during the summer of 2004. The league includes founding members Clarkson University, Hobart and William Smith Colleges, the University of Rochester, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, St. Lawrence University, Skidmore College, and Union College. Vassar College became a full member of the league during the 2000-01 academic year, and Bard College and Rochester Institute of Technology joined for the 2011-12 academic year. Founding member Hamilton College departed following the 2010-11 academic year in order to fully integrate its athletic programs within the New England Small College Athletic Conference.

The U.S. Merchant Marine Academy, Worcester Polytechnic Institute and Springfield College are associate members in football only.

At the beginning of the 2012-2013 season New York University became an associate member in both men's and women's golf, while Wellesley College and Mount Holyoke College became associate members in women's golf.

It looks like just RIT

Ed Trefzger
02-07-2016, 05:25 PM
Move RIT into the ECAC?

Many RIT fans would delight at this.

FlagDUDE08
02-07-2016, 07:44 PM
Many RIT fans would delight at this.

Who the heck are you going to travel partner with? And we're sure as heck not breaking that up.

joecct
02-07-2016, 11:21 PM
Who the heck are you going to travel partner with? And we're sure as heck not breaking that up.

The Ivy Group goes there own way.
Quinny joins HEA
The Empire Hockey Conference forms with
CCT, SLU, RPI, UC, COLG, RIT, NIA, CAN
Plays a 28 game conference schedule (2H/2A)
And there you have it.

joecct
02-07-2016, 11:28 PM
The Doomsday Scenario.
The money D1 schools decide they don't want the playups, but like what the D2s have done. So the form a National Collegiate Championship for men's ice hockey - just like the women.

This leaves the D3 playups with a choice to move their entire athletic programs to D2 or play D3 in all sports. If they choose the latter the Liberty League has
CCT, SLU, RPI, UC, RIT, Hobart & Skidmore. 7 teams are enough for a D3 AQ.

LTsatch
02-07-2016, 11:30 PM
The Ivy Group goes there own way.
Quinny joins HEA
The Empire Hockey Conference forms with
CCT, SLU, RPI, UC, COLG, RIT, NIA, CAN
Plays a 28 game conference schedule (2H/2A)
And there you have it.


We don't need anymore lowly automatic qualifiers for the pairwise. ;)

joecct
02-07-2016, 11:33 PM
We don't need anymore lowly automatic qualifiers for the pairwise. ;)

It would draw though. Maybe even a TV contract with TWS?!

LTsatch
02-07-2016, 11:44 PM
Interesting concept, but I do not think the NCAA would like to have more and smaller conferences. A six team Ivy League would be very problematic and a scheduling nightmare.

Ralph Baer
02-08-2016, 02:43 AM
The Doomsday Scenario.
The money D1 schools decide they don't want the playups, but like what the D2s have done. So the form a National Collegiate Championship for men's ice hockey - just like the women.

This leaves the D3 playups with a choice to move their entire athletic programs to D2 or play D3 in all sports. If they choose the latter the Liberty League has
CCT, SLU, RPI, UC, RIT, Hobart & Skidmore. 7 teams are enough for a D3 AQ.

As I said when they wanted to eliminate scholarships for the D-III play-ups, I would rather have RPI drop hockey than move to D-III. I wonder if the Navy needs a new warehouse.


Edit: and I agree with LTsatch that overall it is beneficial to both the Ivies and non-Ivies to have a single conference.

Dutchman
02-08-2016, 06:36 AM
There was a great write-up, I think it was about 4-5 years ago, written by a current or former athletic director at Yale, that talked about the great fit in the ECAC between the Ivy's and the non-ivy's because of academics and academic emphasis, long traditional rivalries, geography, shared values, notion of the "student-athlete", other synergies, etc. I think the league is even stronger and more cohesive given its recent success and the increased popularity of College Hockey.

drshoen
02-08-2016, 09:44 AM
"The Ivy League recognizes ice hockey champions for both sexes, but it does not sponsor the sport; it instead uses the results of regular-season ECAC Hockey matches involving two Ivy League schools to extrapolate an Ivy champion (all six Ivy League schools that sponsor varsity hockey do so for both men and women, and compete in the ECAC). The Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference-sponsored D-I men's hockey, but dropped the sport in 2003."

So we could just take the regular season matchups and extrapolate a winner. How do we include RIT in this? We all need to schedule RIT as an exhibition? Move RIT into the ECAC?

Since RIT played Clarkson and SLU in non-conference and lost both, I think we can put them last in the league.

Of the other 4 teams, by my count, I have Clarkson, SLU, and RPI with 7 points each in 6 games. Union has 3 points, so that puts them 4th. I suggest breaking the tie by points in the 4 games. Clarkson has 5 points, SLU has 4, RPI has 3.

So, I have them Clarkson, SLU, RPI, Union, RIT

Dutchman
02-08-2016, 03:19 PM
So, I have them Clarkson, SLU, RPI, Union, RIT

I am very pleased to announce that the winner of 2016 Liberty League D-I Hockey Championship is:
CLARKSON UNIVERSITY based on their head to head play against other league teams !!!!

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2966521

We need to contact the League Office ...

LordofBrewtown
02-08-2016, 08:12 PM
Edit: and I agree with LTsatch that overall it is beneficial to both the Ivies and non-Ivies to have a single conference.

I don't really understand this. Why not split into 2 conferences to get the 2nd auto-bid, and maintain some kind of scheduling arrangement so that the majority of your non-conference games come from each other/still play the other 6 every other year if not every year? That guarantees you are not scrambling for home dates, maintain the rivalries and you likely get another bid 2 or 3 years. You could even make it a contract so that if a schools would drop hockey or otherwise leave, the Ivy would go back into the ECAC - no harm/no foul.

Playing off of that idea, in the perfect scenario, Penn reignites their program, giving the Ivy 7 teams and RIT joins their Liberty league partners in the ECAC. Ivy/ECAC split into two 7 team leagues, maintaining a scheduling agreement. You can either go 3x6=18 conf games, plus 7 non against the other, for 25 games, or go 4x6=24 conf, plus 4 against the other for 28 guaranteed games.
Or if you really want to maintain the traveling partners, you could play each of the other 13 teams 2x, for 26 games, and only count 10 conference games for standings.

Same principal without expansion/if you split the current 12 into ECAC/Ivy.