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davyd83
11-25-2015, 12:55 AM
As if the on-ice embarrassments weren't enough.

I hate Jim Delany. This is the same out of touch ****** that invited Rutgers to the conference thinking it would work out, and the same idiot that has called for the return of freshmen ineligibility.
It's not just Delaney. It's Red. It's Anastos. It's Lucia. It's Barry Alvarez and all the coaches and AD's. Take away the AHA games and the non conference record is abysmal. It had to be stopped.

Critical Thinker
11-25-2015, 01:25 AM
I hate Jim Delany. This is the same out of touch ****** that invited Rutgers to the conference thinking it would work out

What do you mean Rutgers didn't work out? The B1G got the New York TV market because of it. That's all they ever wanted out of Rutgers.

Red Cows
11-25-2015, 01:53 AM
Here's a blog post that puts a great perspective on this whole thing:

http://www.withoutapeer.com/2015/11/a-rigged-game.html

Stratus
11-25-2015, 05:33 AM
Would the proposed change increase or decrease the graduation rate of the athletes in question?
Call me idealistic, but this is *college* and that ought to be one of the first concerns.

aparch
11-25-2015, 07:05 AM
For thirteen years, Tom Anastos watched college hockey flourish under his leadership of the CCHA. But now that he is currently 32-39-11 (.457) as a head coach, it's apparently all the small schools fault in recruiting "overaged canadians" that his team sucks and can't win games.

No problem with schools recruiting the would-be 25 year old seniors when he controlled 12 teams. Now that he controls one, it's a problem.

Split-N
11-25-2015, 07:08 AM
Here's a blog post that puts a great perspective on this whole thing:

http://www.withoutapeer.com/2015/11/a-rigged-game.html

This is a tremendous read. So do yourselves a favor and read it, if you haven't already.

And to paraphrase an earlier post, the best thing that could possibly happen to college sports (not just hockey) would be for the Power-5 to breakaway, do its own thing with its own kind, and let college sports go back to being college sports.

Scarlet
11-25-2015, 08:04 AM
Here's a blog post that puts a great perspective on this whole thing:

http://www.withoutapeer.com/2015/11/a-rigged-game.html

Excellent post. It's one thing that it's even something that was put forth. It's another, to me, that the B1G coaches did this on their own without roping in all of college hockey. That's bothersome.

UMLFan
11-25-2015, 08:04 AM
This is a tremendous read. So do yourselves a favor and read it, if you haven't already.

Yes, it really was. Thanks to Red Cows for the original find.

The Exiled One
11-25-2015, 08:16 AM
Yet another view...

Current Minnesota Wild defenseman Christian Folin is certain this policy would have prevented him from playing in the NHL. (http://danmyers.blogspot.com/2015/11/folin-i-wouldnt-be-here-if-age-rule.html)

alslammerz
11-25-2015, 08:22 AM
Would the proposed change increase or decrease the graduation rate of the athletes in question?
Call me idealistic, but this is *college* and that ought to be one of the first concerns.

Probably decrease, for two reasons.

1. From at least some comments online (from professors that CHN retweeted), older students are more able to handle both the workload and playing hockey.
2. Most players coming in at that age aren't playing in the NHL, so they are going to go through 4 years of college to graduate, as opposed to an 18-yo draft prospect who is more likely to jump to juniors (if even just by the virtue that they can) or sign a professional deal.

Wisko McBadgerton
11-25-2015, 08:59 AM
Yet another view...

Current Minnesota Wild defenseman Christian Folin is certain this policy would have prevented him from playing in the NHL. (http://danmyers.blogspot.com/2015/11/folin-i-wouldnt-be-here-if-age-rule.html)

I read that yesterday and my response was that his view is probably not true. He has the talent, and opportunities are quite often presented to talent. And he did leave Lowell after 2 years. But more importantly, it's completely irrelevant. I don't care if Folin's story, as great as it is, doesn't happen. NCAA policy shouldn't be driven by whether or not one, or an extra handful of guys, make it to the NHL.


Probably decrease, for two reasons.

1. From at least some comments online (from professors that CHN retweeted), older students are more able to handle both the workload and playing hockey.
2. Most players coming in at that age aren't playing in the NHL, so they are going to go through 4 years of college to graduate, as opposed to an 18-yo draft prospect who is more likely to jump to juniors (if even just by the virtue that they can) or sign a professional deal.

1. 21 year olds are very likely more prepared than 18 year olds. How much more prepared they are than 20 year olds doesn't seem to be a part of most of these anecdotes.

2. This makes no sense to me. There isn't suddenly going to be a higher ratio of 18 year old draft picks going to the NHL coming in vs. older players just because they lower the age one year. For the most part, the very same guys would be coming into NCAA hockey. They would just be brought in a year earlier at 20, rather than be in juniors an extra year.

St. Clown
11-25-2015, 09:42 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">North Michigan head coach Walt Kyle not holding back, and I agree with a lot of what he says here. <a href="https://t.co/LchebItC2R">pic.twitter.com/LchebItC2R</a></p> Mike McMahon (@MikeMcMahonCHN) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeMcMahonCHN/status/669193942538330112">November 24, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Students playing college hockey at 25 and 26 are less likely to have an NHL career as a player. The kids who come into the NCAA at 18, 19 and 20 are more likely to get serious looks from scouts, if they've not already been drafted. The head scout for the Bluejackets said as much in an article about Duvie Westcott when he was leaving SCSU for the pros, saying that at 24 he was on the cusp of not getting any attention because he was so old to just then be entering their system.

Red Cows
11-25-2015, 09:58 AM
Yes, it really was. Thanks to Red Cows for the original find.

One thing I do not agree with in the article, though, is the contention that:


College hockey continues to change. Beyond the Big Ten, it started changing again last year when Arizona State decided to go varsity, a move which could well encourage more big money schools to do the same in parts of the country previously untouched by college hockey.

I personally do not think that ASU going D-1 portends anything. And, I think ASU still has a tough road ahead as they are in a unique situation where they are going "full D-1" next season with a non-pussified home and away schedule and have nowhere to play, really, at this writing. They are not viable at Oceanside Arena (capacity: 724) and they really aren't "viable", either, at Gila River, where they would have to share this public, multi-purpose facility, meaning they are not going to be able to practice there more often than not. So, their players will schlepping gear all over town every time they practice, in all likelihood, to say nothing of ASU controlling no revenue streams in such a building other than ticket sales. Then there is the political will necessary needed to build a facility for this program (read: provide the 80 million dollars plus needed for it).

The Big 10 could go a long way to to restoring competitive balance for them if they just fielded a truly viable league. 6 teams isn't a viable league, IMHO. Ask the CHA how that one is going for them. This would solve scheduling problems, add rivalries, make the league "more telegenic", and most importantly, add credibility. Presumably, in such a league, more players would be attracted to playing in such a league as well. Add Nebraska, who is less than 3 weeks from having the last piece of the puzzle in place for them to add both men's and women's hockey (It is indeed ironic that the one school in the nation that is the most ideally situated to add a program on short notice is, in fact, actually in the Big 10) Add another school and have the Big 10 subsidize it's start-up, somehow. I can think of a lot of ways that could be done to benefit everyone in the league, whether they have hockey or not. It would be in the league's competitive and financial interest for it to do so. It would also provide an image boost.

If I am a player, I don't see the Big 10 as an attractive option for me at just 6 teams, total. Blue blood hockey programs or not. I think this is one of the reasons for the fall from grace. This is also a bad time for the league for Red to be a bazillion years old, too. My son isn't signing at a program with a coach that is just about to turn 76.

The Exiled One
11-25-2015, 10:05 AM
I read that yesterday and my response was that his view is probably not true. He has the talent, and opportunities are quite often presented to talent. And he did leave Lowell after 2 years. But more importantly, it's completely irrelevant. I don't care if Folin's story, as great as it is, doesn't happen. NCAA policy shouldn't be driven by whether or not one, or an extra handful of guys, make it to the NHL.
I disagree. The NCAA increases its exposure and reputation by putting more and more players in the NHL every year. More exposure is good for the NCAA and its member institutions. Anything that decreases the number of players the NCAA sends to the NHL is a step backwards.

JohnsonsJerseys
11-25-2015, 10:19 AM
Seriously, how many 18 year-olds have ever played in the NHL? Gretsky, Cindy Crosby, and Connor McDavid types don't come along too often. So basically that same 18 year-old could NOT go to the NHL.
Well, actually hundreds of them. I don't know who "Gretsky" is, but you also have Crosby, Skinner, MacKinnon, Jagr, Duchene, Nugent-Hopkins, Gagner, Stamkos, Staal, Nash, Bergeron, Ekblad, Gaborik, Nichushkin, Marleau, Lecavalier, Pastrnak, Galchenyuk, Kane, O'Reilly, Barkov, Seguin, Bogosian, Hartnell, McDavid, Thornton, Sbisa, Burns, Grigorenko, Hanifin, Matteau.... And that is only a PARTIAL list of players CURRENTLY ACTIVE in the NHL who started in the NHL at 18 (or younger in some cases). I didn't have time to type out the full list of almost 300 names of players that have done it. The list is growing every year as players develop at younger ages now than they did 20 years ago. Playing at 18 in the NHL, while of course not the norm, is by no means rare anymore.
I thought Michigan was a research university?
Ryan

chickod
11-25-2015, 10:20 AM
Call me idealistic, but this is *college* and that ought to be one of the first concerns.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha :D

blackswampboy
11-25-2015, 10:22 AM
Students playing college hockey at 25 and 26 are less likely to have an NHL career as a player. The kids who come into the NCAA at 18, 19 and 20 are more likely to get serious looks from scouts, if they've not already been drafted. The head scout for the Bluejackets said as much in an article about Duvie Westcott when he was leaving SCSU for the pros, saying that at 24 he was on the cusp of not getting any attention because he was so old to just then be entering their system.

Statistically no doubt, but then there's the Andrew Hammond story. The classic late bloomer.
There may not be a lot of them, but to personalize it--this change would hit guys like him.

oh, and Mike McMahon has a good piece up today:
http://blog.collegehockeynews.com/2015/11/reacting-to-the-proposed-big-ten-legislation/


"What problem does this legislation solve? To me, programs recruiting 13-year-old players or unabashedly recruiting other committed players is a MUCH BIGGER issue than a 21-year-old freshman."

Ronnieb
11-25-2015, 10:24 AM
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha :D

Funny! College sports>college :)

Wisko McBadgerton
11-25-2015, 10:38 AM
The list is growing every year as players develop at younger ages now than they did 20 years ago.
Ryan

The average age for NHL skaters today is about 27.5. In the 80's it was about 25. (with 9 less teams) So perhaps some individuals are developing more quickly, but as a group it doesn't seem that way.

St. Clown
11-25-2015, 10:43 AM
The average age for NHL skaters today is about 27.5. In the 80's it was about 25. (with 9 less teams) So perhaps some individuals are developing more quickly, but as a group it doesn't seem that way.

Or players are just able to sustain longer careers due to better diet and training regimens. Looking at MLB, spring training was intended to get guys back into shape after they spent the offseason working in factories, stores, etc., but that's not the case anymore. As sports medicine and training progresses, guys with career longevity like Chelios won't likely become the norm, but they won't be quite so rare either.