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joecct
12-25-2015, 11:51 AM
And, probably 90% of those who will vote on this haven't a clue about college hockey and further have never heard of the Canadian Junior Leagues. Don Lucia and The BIG will then belong in the same conversation as John McCardell and Roger Hull. I'm sure many readers here know about JM and RH (hint: the latter is the 40%'er). They unsuccessfully did their best to phase out/hamper some small schools (i.e., CC, CCT, SLU, and RPI) about 10 yrs. ago; Lucia and THE BIG are doing their best to phase out/hamper ALL of the small schools.

A reminder to Lucia and his sour grapes: Union 7 - UM 4 Men and CCT 5 - UM 4 Women; and OMG, both in the same year.

BINGO!! The next time a BCS school loses to a play up, look for legislation to banish the D-III's. They'll keep the D-II's by creating a National Collegiate championship just like the women.

davyd83
12-25-2015, 02:35 PM
I managed to succeed in life even though I was cruelly made a freshmen at Minnesota when I was 17. Oh, the mean-spirited of having to be a 20 year old freshmen is lost on me. Why is it so cruel and unfair?

Here is what is the worst thing. Outside of the Big Ten, coaches oppose the legislation by a margin of 49-5. So the Big Ten went behind the back of the rest of college hockey and back doored the proposal. Plain and simply, the Big Ten (or 6 or 12 or 14) apparently can't count persons for and persons against the measure any better than they can count the number of schools in the conference. They don't give a **** about what's best for college hockey as a whole, they only care about the Big Ten. But unless the Big Ten wants to just play all 34 games in conference, they need the other schools too.

giwan
12-25-2015, 04:17 PM
BINGO!! The next time a BCS school loses to a play up, look for legislation to banish the D-III's. They'll keep the D-II's by creating a National Collegiate championship just like the women.

no such thing DI or DIII really

Happy
12-25-2015, 04:45 PM
Here is what is the worst thing. Outside of the Big Ten, coaches oppose the legislation by a margin of 49-5. So the Big Ten went behind the back of the rest of college hockey and back doored the proposal. Plain and simply, the Big Ten (or 6 or 12 or 14) apparently can't count persons for and persons against the measure any better than they can count the number of schools in the conference. They don't give a **** about what's best for college hockey as a whole, they only care about the Big Ten. But unless the Big Ten wants to just play all 34 games in conference, they need the other schools too.

I thought the NCAA counted the votes, not the Big Ten. I am pretty sure the Big Ten follows the NCAA rules for voting. Show me where there was a NCAA vote that was 49-5. I can't seem to find it.

Happy
12-25-2015, 04:55 PM
Isn't that exactly the point? Lucia is having a fit because of some recent events that did not go in the way of his school.

Let me restate my opinion on the topic. My main concern is the underhanded way this came about without apparently discussing this with only representatives of the 60 hockey-paying schools first. I have long been of the opinion that there is something wrong about 21-year-old freshmen and only accepted it when it was pointed out that it was age discrimination if they were not allowed.

People like you would probably be happy letting 18 year olds play in little league baseball.
Look, if fans want to watch 24 and 25 year old players, there are all sorts of places they can watch them. Why does ncaa hockey have to have special rules, unlike almost all other NCAA sports, to let them play? I am against it because it has basically destroyed my local high school hockey teams, but people from the East never had that, anyway.

LTsatch
12-25-2015, 05:36 PM
People like you would probably be happy letting 18 year olds play in little league baseball.
Look, if fans want to watch 24 and 25 year old players, there are all sorts of places they can watch them. Why does ncaa hockey have to have special rules, unlike almost all other NCAA sports, to let them play? I am against it because it has basically destroyed my local high school hockey teams, but people from the East never had that, anyway.

It's the same in the East. Of course you could call Shattuck St Mary's and Delbarton Prep the American version of Major Junior. It happens in baseball, basketball. lacrosse, municipal High Schools don't stand a chance.

davyd83
12-25-2015, 05:57 PM
I thought the NCAA counted the votes, not the Big Ten. I am pretty sure the Big Ten follows the NCAA rules for voting. Show me where there was a NCAA vote that was 49-5. I can't seem to find it.

The straw poll at the coaches convention on whether they supported such a measure. The Big Ten voted 6-0 for, the rest of the coaches 49-5 against. The Big Ten decided to propose the legislation to the NCAA anyway.

joecct
12-25-2015, 06:03 PM
no such thing DI or DIII reallyThere are a ton of D-II's playing up under grandfather status. Just change Law 2010-100 to eliminate playups across the board and then create an NCC. The D-III's get the shaft and everyone else stays.

Other impact - Hobart and JHU in lax (the latter kills the AQ for B1G lax).

giwan
12-25-2015, 06:19 PM
There are a ton of D-II's playing up under grandfather status. Just change Law 2010-100 to eliminate playups across the board and then create an NCC. The D-III's get the shaft and everyone else stays.

Other impact - Hobart and JHU in lax (the latter kills the AQ for B1G lax).

You are right many DIII's playing up, agreed there, and on a side note I believe they closed it because everyone was trying to get in on DI bouncy ball tourney. Just mean no women's DII champions

Slap Shot
12-25-2015, 08:42 PM
Isn't that exactly the point? Lucia is having a fit because of some recent events that did not go in the way of his school.

That's a bulls^^t accusation and I thought you were better than that. UM has done extremely well of late so which recent events exactly would cause this to born? Don't bother answering - if you make a statement like the above you're not in this logically.

Happy
12-25-2015, 08:58 PM
The straw poll at the coaches convention on whether they supported such a measure. The Big Ten voted 6-0 for, the rest of the coaches 49-5 against. The Big Ten decided to propose the legislation to the NCAA anyway.

So. The Big Ten has decided to do what's best. At one time, Denver said they could never win if they didn't use semi-pro over age Canadians. The rule got changed, and they found out they could win, anyway.

joecct
12-25-2015, 09:03 PM
That's a bulls^^t accusation and I thought you were better than that. UM has done extremely well of late so which recent events exactly would cause this to born? Don't bother answering - if you make a statement like the above you're not in this logically.

Well (VERY WELL) in women's ice hockey (outside of that little blip to a D-III playup). But on the men's side?? 2 FF's in the last 10 years and 1 championship game appearance (also a loss to a D-III playup that plays in the same D-III league as the women's champion).

Happy
12-25-2015, 09:11 PM
Well (VERY WELL) in women's ice hockey (outside of that little blip to a D-III playup). But on the men's side?? 2 FF's in the last 10 years and 1 championship game appearance (also a loss to a D-III playup that plays in the same D-III league as the women's champion).


so, better than what, 40 or 50 teams?

davyd83
12-25-2015, 09:27 PM
So. The Big Ten has decided to do what's best. At one time, Denver said they could never win if they didn't use semi-pro over age Canadians. The rule got changed, and they found out they could win, anyway.

The Big Ten decided to do what's best for whom? If it's "best," why do 49 other schools oppose it?

Slap Shot
12-25-2015, 09:32 PM
Well (VERY WELL) in women's ice hockey (outside of that little blip to a D-III playup). But on the men's side?? 2 FF's in the last 10 years and 1 championship game appearance (also a loss to a D-III playup that plays in the same D-III league as the women's champion).

FF in '05 and 2 of 4 coming into this season. They also were the WCHA regular season champion the last 2 years they were in the league when it was arguably the toughest conference in the country. They also made the NCAAs last year despite the quick exit and had more wins than any other team in the country the previous 4 years.

bothman
12-25-2015, 09:33 PM
so, better than what, 40 or 50 teams?

So The Gopher benchmark is the average NCAA men's hockey program?

Slap Shot
12-25-2015, 09:38 PM
So The Gopher benchmark is the average NCAA men's hockey program?

No, but that means they have to conspire to achieve better?

manurespreader
12-25-2015, 09:49 PM
Here's the thing. if it passes thru, quite a number of schools will become less competitive. Most of those schools are on the fringes already, but less competitive none the less. You have to wonder, if that happens, what then?
It's just not that great an idea.

Slap Shot
12-25-2015, 09:51 PM
Here's the thing. if it passes thru, quite a number of schools will become less competitive.

You say that but the numbers don't necessarily support it to a significant degree, not to mention we have no idea if it's going to actually change results on the ice.

manurespreader
12-25-2015, 09:56 PM
You say that but the numbers don't necessarily support it to a significant degree, not to mention we have no idea if it's going to actually change results on the ice.
Except some schools, really do depend in those 21 yr old freshmen, without them they just won't be as good. If the rule had no perceived effect, no one would have proposed it.