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  • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

    Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    As long as there are Junior A leagues in Canada and Colleges can have players that are 19,20, and/or 21 year-old freshmen, America will need something similar to prepare their players. Sorry, I think you're just wrong on this. Are there examples of kids getting strung along and ruining certain experiences? Sure, but we shouldn't do anything to prevent the exception.
    I think you are confusing what is best for USA hockey and what is best for kids/families who are pursuing college athletics. My point again....somebody start looking at this from the student athlete and family perspective...... How is the junior system better for them? I think I am right on this. If you polled prospective hockey recruits and parents and they were asked if they would prefer to start their college career at 18 or 20, which do you think the majority would choose? I know families with kids who have been or are being recruited. None were or are excited about junior hockey as part of the deal. They are forced to accept it. This whole debate is not about the actual participants. They are merely pawns. Any legislation should focus on their outcome....not USA hockey, Don Lucia, Union's program, or the NHL.
    Old time hockey

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    • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

      Originally posted by Toe Blake View Post
      I think you are confusing what is best for USA hockey and what is best for kids/families who are pursuing college athletics. My point again....somebody start looking at this from the student athlete and family perspective...... How is the junior system better for them? I think I am right on this. If you polled prospective hockey recruits and parents and they were asked if they would prefer to start their college career at 18 or 20, which do you think the majority would choose? I know families with kids who have been or are being recruited. None were or are excited about junior hockey as part of the deal. They are forced to accept it. This whole debate is not about the actual participants. They are merely pawns. Any legislation should focus on their outcome....not USA hockey, Don Lucia, Union's program, or the NHL.
      Junior hockey, even Tier 2, is quite the step even from Minnesota high school hockey. This is something RPI has found, given some of their players are coming directly from HS hockey, while others come from junior leagues. The step up is quite a large one if you're going from HS to college, and juniors gives you that one extra step of higher experience that helps your game. HS players tend to struggle at first.

      Also, there's one other thing to remember, and that's that junior leagues have tutoring during the week for their players, especially in the USHL. Education is still very important in the system, it's not just all play all day.

      Comment


      • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

        Originally posted by Red Cloud View Post
        Completely missing the point here. Root and Bodie aren't the stereotypical "blue chip prospects," but they were clear leaders on teams of older players getting to the national championship - and more to the point, they were guys who stayed into their upperclass years while being strong contributors from the get. These guys are being overlooked by the Wisconsins of the world because they weren't high-class prospects at an age where they still thought shooting spitballs at the science teacher was funny.

        And if you think this legislation won't impact the way 19 and 20 year olds are recruited, I have a bridge to sell you.
        The first half of the article "A Rigged Game" endeavors to make the point that the B1G is proposing this rule specifically because it will stop the "small guys" of the world from gaining a competitive advantage by using older players. To support the premise the author points to Union's NC win. The reader is certainly to infer that this proposal would put a stop to a team like Union having the older players it had. That is not true.

        For for further support the author points to Mat Bodie and Jesse Root, again inferring they would somehow have been affected by this rule. That is not true. And if the author didn't mean to infer a relationship between this proposal and Union and those players, why in the world use them as examples?

        As for Bodie and Root. Let's not pretend these guys were some sort of projects that just got a shot late in their careers and panned out through luck and hard work. Bodie was Coastal league ROY at 18 and was one of the top D in Western Canada at 19. Member of the Canada West World Junior A team. Captain of the Powell River Kings that he led to the finals as the leading scorer in the playoffs. A ton of schools would have wanted him but he followed his brother to Union. Root won a State Championship in Pennsylvania, was the leading scorer of his elite Taft School team, was an academic all star and one of the best LaX players in New England. He led the Jr. Bruins to the semi finals his one year of Junior Hockey with 44 in 41gp. Root was a terrific athlete, a very good hockey player, and very smart. He certainly had other options besides Yale at 19. Neither of these guys took until 21 to be NCAA ready, and the proposed rule would have done absolutely nothing to recruiting either of them. There may very well be useful examples to the author's point. These guys aren't it, though.

        I agree that 19-20 year old recruiting would be affected. Primarily I would guess that a decision will have to be made earlier on borderline players, rather than waiting around another year. Some guys that wouldn't have got a shot, will, and some guys that would have got a shot, won't, I would imagine. (Again, Root and Bodie were not borderline players.)

        As for UW, before last year's disaster year they had a #1 seed team with 9 Seniors very similar in make-up to guys like Root and Bodie. (Two late round draft picks in the group, the rest free agents. Seven are playing pro hockey today.) UW recruits guys just like this. Of course they also bring in super elite kids, and two 2nd round draft picks also departed early.

        I am interested in the bridge, though. Provided it's in good condition and the price is reasonable.
        Originally posted by WiscTJK
        I'm with Wisko and Tim.
        Originally posted by Timothy A
        Other than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?

        Comment


        • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

          Originally posted by Toe Blake View Post
          I think you are confusing what is best for USA hockey and what is best for kids/families who are pursuing college athletics. My point again....somebody start looking at this from the student athlete and family perspective...... How is the junior system better for them? I think I am right on this. If you polled prospective hockey recruits and parents and they were asked if they would prefer to start their college career at 18 or 20, which do you think the majority would choose? I know families with kids who have been or are being recruited. None were or are excited about junior hockey as part of the deal. They are forced to accept it. This whole debate is not about the actual participants. They are merely pawns. Any legislation should focus on their outcome....not USA hockey, Don Lucia, Union's program, or the NHL.
          Your whole premise here is that the additional year is bad for students, but that's not true. Really it depends on the kid. It's not bad for some students, it might be bad for others..But to say the whole system in rigged against them.... no.
          MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

          It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

          Comment


          • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

            Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
            No way to explain it now.

            Football plays 22 and has 4x that
            Hockey plays 19 and has 18 total.

            That right there is your problem in a nutshell
            If football plays 22, then hockey only plays 5. Seems like those numbers work out.
            Originally posted by dicaslover
            Yep, you got it. I heart Maize.

            Originally posted by Kristin
            Maybe I'm missing something but you just asked me which MSU I go to and then you knew the theme of my homecoming, how do you know one and not the other?

            Western College Hockey Blog

            Comment


            • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

              [QUOTE=FlagDUDE08;6234515]Junior hockey, even Tier 2, is quite the step even from Minnesota high school hockey. This is something RPI has found, given some of their players are coming directly from HS hockey, while others come from junior leagues. The step up is quite a large one if you're going from HS to college, and juniors gives you that one extra step of higher experience that helps your game. HS players tend to struggle at first.QUOTE]

              Not debating that point under the current state of affairs. But that jump would not be so big if hockey was like every other college sport where kids generally come in immediately after high school. Juniors are so much in the fabric of hockey now, that no one seems to consider that college hockey could do quite well without them.
              Old time hockey

              Comment


              • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View Post
                blah blah blah
                All I read is "I have my opinion and I'm going to shoehorn something someone else said to fit my worldview."

                Top notch. Dope.
                Keep an open mind. Just don't be so open-minded that your brain falls out.

                Comment


                • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                  Originally posted by MaizeRage View Post
                  If football plays 22, then hockey only plays 5. Seems like those numbers work out.
                  Show me a college hockey game where the coach is rolling one line and one line only.

                  Comment


                  • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                    Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                    Show me a college hockey game where the coach is rolling one line and one line only.
                    Exactly. And the same goes for football.
                    Originally posted by dicaslover
                    Yep, you got it. I heart Maize.

                    Originally posted by Kristin
                    Maybe I'm missing something but you just asked me which MSU I go to and then you knew the theme of my homecoming, how do you know one and not the other?

                    Western College Hockey Blog

                    Comment


                    • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                      Originally posted by MaizeRage View Post
                      If football plays 22, then hockey only plays 5. Seems like those numbers work out.
                      I'm sure that is the assumed problem. What really caused this problem in the first place was college hockey self-imposing a reduction themselves before NCAA reduced scholarships everywhere, which they chose to impose on hockey even though they had already self-imposed a reduction.

                      Football is 85 scholarships (head count), typical team uses about 35-40 players in a game?
                      Basketball is 13 scholarships (head count), typical team uses about 8 players in a game?
                      Hockey is 18 scholarships (equivalency), typical team uses 19 players players in a game?

                      I see a problem with that.
                      Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                      Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

                      Comment


                      • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                        Originally posted by Toe Blake View Post
                        Not debating that point under the current state of affairs. But that jump would not be so big if hockey was like every other college sport where kids generally come in immediately after high school. Juniors are so much in the fabric of hockey now, that no one seems to consider that college hockey could do quite well without them.
                        Pretty sure the ship has sailed, so stop beating a dead horse.
                        Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                        Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

                        Comment


                        • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                          Originally posted by manurespreader View Post
                          Your whole premise here is that the additional year is bad for students, but that's not true. Really it depends on the kid. It's not bad for some students, it might be bad for others..But to say the whole system in rigged against them.... no.
                          That's not my whole premise. My premise is that the majority of participants don't want to be forced into juniors. Never said it does not work out for some. But when even D3 rosters are mainly older players who were told they must play juniors before they play D3 hockey, there is a problem.
                          Last edited by Toe Blake; 12-02-2015, 04:07 PM.
                          Old time hockey

                          Comment


                          • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                            Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                            Pretty sure the ship has sailed, so stop beating a dead horse.
                            Yep. Nothing to see here. Keep the focus on what's best for everyone but the actual participants. It's working so well for them.
                            Old time hockey

                            Comment


                            • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                              Originally posted by Toe Blake View Post
                              Yep. Nothing to see here. Keep the focus on what's best for everyone but the actual participants. It's working so well for them.
                              Did donald get a new screen name? Seriously, I have stated that I'm not sure I am opposed to this rule change because I'm not sure anyone should be asked to put of college til they're 21. On the other hand, I'm not sure waiting is a horrible thing for a year or two. I have asked the question about the players who don't get that D1 phone call. Read back...I just think you've taken it to the extreme and the world we live in has Junior A hockey. Americans are competing with Canadians for scholarship $ and that will make it extremely difficult to throw away the current system.
                              Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                              Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

                              Comment


                              • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                                Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                                Did donald get a new screen name? Seriously, I have stated that I'm not sure I am opposed to this rule change because I'm not sure anyone should be asked to put of college til they're 21. On the other hand, I'm not sure waiting is a horrible thing for a year or two. I have asked the question about the players who don't get that D1 phone call. Read back...I just think you've taken it to the extreme and the world we live in has Junior A hockey. Americans are competing with Canadians for scholarship $ and that will make it extremely difficult to throw away the current system.
                                I don't think it's extreme to expect college hockey to operate like every other college sport with regard to development of recruits. Maybe we can agree on one thing......Any legislation enacted by the NCAA should ultimately be for the benefit of the student athletes.....not any particular coaches, programs, or outside entities.
                                Old time hockey

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