New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Just want to bump this in case late thread readers missed it. Definitely worth reading:

This article makes a big deal of Union's NC win on the backs of older players and calls it "the great equalizer". Great. Except that as far as I can tell, none of Union's players on that team would have been ineligible under the proposed rule.


It also specifically touts Jesse Root at Yale and Union's Matt Bodie as exactly the kind of players the evil B1G is trying prevent other teams from getting. Root played one year of juniors after HS and Bodie played two. Both just fine eligibility wise.

[joecct]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Follow the money. The P5 schools want the money and screw the rest of you peons.

[UML Puck Hawk]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

If you're a genius chemical engineer and Dow wanted you to start working for them full time after your sophomore year, would you say no?

Choose grad school over a job with the DOE, so its not as simple as you think .

And that's the thing its not that simple for everyone. The players playing junior want to play professionally. Maybe they acknowledge they will not be going to the NHL, but many of them do believe they can still play overseas and make a living playing the sport.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

If you're a genius chemical engineer and Dow wanted you to start working for them full time after your sophomore year, would you say no?

Absolutely. The big chemical and oil companies churn through first year workers, regardless of talent, like a wood chipper.

I believe the figure I heard was 50% of the people Exxon hired were canned in the first year after I graduated. This isn't out of the norm.

Sorry for the tangent.

[Biddco]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

https://twitter.com/MikeMcMahonCHN/s...49463221239808

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Alright, here is all the data:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Full list of all players currently on rosters including:
League, Team, Name, Position, Class, Birthdate, Commit Date, Hometown, Height, Weight, Hand, Frosh Year, Senior Year, Age of Frosh Year (as 8/1), Days from commitment to first joining team (either 10/1 or 1/1 of the half-season they joined the team), State/Province, Country, Previous (Jr/Prep/HS) Team and League, Previous College (if applicable), First Name, Last Name

[Ralph Baer]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Alright, here is all the data:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Full list of all players currently on rosters including:
League, Team, Name, Position, Class, Birthdate, Commit Date, Hometown, Height, Weight, Hand, Frosh Year, Senior Year, Age of Frosh Year (as 8/1), Days from commitment to first joining team (either 10/1 or 1/1 of the half-season they joined the team), State/Province, Country, Previous (Jr/Prep/HS) Team and League, Previous College (if applicable), First Name, Last Name

Shirtless,
You have highlighted RPI's Sam Goodman because of the age when he committed. His date of commitment appears to be the start of his junior year at RPI when he left RPI's ACHA team and joined the varsity as the practice goaltender. He of course "committed" to RPI as a student over two years earlier. I don't think that it makes sense to include him as a late commit,.

Not that it is truly important since RPI always finds walkon 3rd-string goalies, but does anyone know if time on the ACHA affects varsity eligibility? That is, will he be eligible for a third year if he attends RPI as a grad student next year?

One more thing. I have never seen his actual date of birth. I assume that 1/1/94 is just because the year 1994 appears elsewhere without an exact date. (1993 has also appeared as his year of birth.)

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Here's a bit more data based on the best available information...

• Using an arbitrary date of 9/1 (which should work well enough for our purposes), there are approximately 99 freshmen who started school this season at the age of 21
• Thanks to Chris Heisenberg's spreadsheet, I have the approximate commitment date of 94 of them
• Approximately 4.3% of them committed while still in high school
• 19.1% of them committed after the age of 21
• 73.4% of them committed after the age of 20
• 95.7% of them committed after high school graduation
• 70.2% of them committed less than a year before they enrolled
• At most, 21.3% came in a season after they expected to come in

Here is what I have for 21-yo frosh by first year date
Year starts of Frosh Year (number of player): <=1 year, <=2 years/>1 year, >2 years
2012 Frosh (61): 70%, 25%, 5%
2013 Frosh (77): 75%, 21%, 4%
2014 Frosh (80): 70%, 24%, 6%
2015 Frosh (95): 66%, 25%, 8%

The worst 21-yo frosh example is Adam Johnson (UMD) committed in April 2011, frosh this year (over 4.5 years)

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Shirtless,
You have highlighted RPI's Sam Goodman because of the age when he committed. His date of commitment appears to be the start of his junior year at RPI when he left RPI's ACHA team and joined the varsity as the practice goaltender. He of course "committed" to RPI as a student over two years earlier. I don't think that it makes sense to include him as a late commit,.

Not that it is truly important since RPI always finds walkon 3rd-string goalies, but does anyone know if time on the ACHA affects varsity eligibility? That is, will he be eligible for a third year if he attends RPI as a grad student next year?

One more thing. I have never seen his actual date of birth. I assume that 1/1/94 is just because the year 1994 appears elsewhere without an exact date. (1993 has also appeared as his year of birth.)

Yes sir, the ACHA to D1 team goalies are an interesting case. I randomly chose September 1 of the first year if I couldn't find a commitment date on Heisenberg or Elite Prospects so there certainly are some issues with that.

I believe his was one of the few birthdates that I had no idea.

As for his eligibility, I'm pretty sure the clock starts ticking once you go to college full-time. The reason I listed him as a sophomore was because of when he started, not because of his actual eligibility.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Im working through many of the outlier (committed more than 3 years) and doublechecking they haven't redshirted for any reason.
I will need to update guys like Tim Davison and Connor Reilly because of this.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Yes sir, the ACHA to D1 team goalies are an interesting case. I randomly chose September 1 of the first year if I couldn't find a commitment date on Heisenberg or Elite Prospects so there certainly are some issues with that.

I believe his was one of the few birthdates that I had no idea.

Actually Goodman was also on RPI's varsity during the latter part of the 2003-4 season, joining the team as the practice goalie when Jason Kasdorf went down with a season-ending injury. RPI never added him to the on-line roster, but he appeared on the team-picture that year http://www.rpiathletics.com/roster.a...15&path=hockey. (second row, immediately to the left of the woman trainer.)

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Actually Goodman was also on RPI's varsity during the latter part of the 2003-4 season, joining the team as the practice goalie when Jason Kasdorf went down with a season-ending injury. RPI never added him to the on-line roster, but he appeared on the team-picture that year http://www.rpiathletics.com/roster.a...15&path=hockey. (second row, immediately to the left of the woman trainer.)

Thanks for the info, but obviously there is only so much individual information I can invest time into this stuff. I've already compiled data from elite prospects team rosters, USCHO team rosters, Heisenberg commit records 2011-2015, and Elite Prospects player profile info when necessary to fill in holes.

[The Exiled One]

Here is what I have for 21-yo frosh by first year date
Year starts of Frosh Year (number of player): <=1 year, <=2 years/>1 year, >2 years
2012 Frosh (61): 70%, 25%, 5%
2013 Frosh (77): 75%, 21%, 4%
2014 Frosh (80): 70%, 24%, 6%
2015 Frosh (95): 66%, 25%, 8%

The worst 21-yo frosh example is Adam Johnson (UMD) committed in April 2011, frosh this year (over 4.5 years)

Good work!

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

I must note that I have completely ignored ASU to this point because their roster is "interesting" with going from club to D1.

[Toe Blake]

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

While this is a good argument and an issue worth discussing, it doesn't have much to do with the proposal. The 21 year-old freshmen almost universally didn't go to juniors until after high school (They may have tried out for teams prior to that, but they didn't make the team.). The kids you're talking about who have to choose what to do while still in high school almost universally go to the big-time hockey schools, and enroll as 18 and 19 year-olds. They are not entering the USHL at 16 or 17 and still playing there at 21. There are legitimate complaints about the USHL and its effect on high school hockey by taking away the high school superstars, but those are completely separate from 21 year-old freshmen, almost exclusively playing for non-perennial powers.

Yes, I realize that most kids who play juniors, do so after high school. For the majority who play after high school, I am skeptical that a one or two year gap between high school and college makes for better college students. My main point is that the junior system is not an ideal system for the kids and the families of those aspiring to play college hockey. If it was, other sports would follow the model.