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  • Originally posted by Almington View Post
    No D2 championship exists because (nearly) all the D2 schools are playing up. I'm sure that if they wanted they could form a very nice D2 eastern and western leagues and get a NCAA championship where they get to make the rules.

    Each and everyone of these schools knew that they would have no direct vote in any matter before the D1 board when they decided to play-up (regardless of if the decision was forced upon them or not). This is not a surprise. These teams are effectively guests at the D1 level. It is no different than buying a vacation home in a neighboring state and then complaining that you don't get to vote in that state. You knew that was the trade-off that you were making when you made the decision to buy in another state.
    Actually, the system has changed significantly over the years. The current system was not in place.the fact that a vote from a "Power Five" school counts 4 times as much as that of most members is fairly recent. These recent changes now allow the Big Ten and a small handful of schools to effectively override what the rest of the D-1 colleges want. Even without the play ups, the D-1 hockey schools were against this measure by a 27-5 count among non BigTen schools. The BigTen's Power Five status, means that what the rest of the D-1 schools want is virtually meaningless. Here's an excellent break down on the process. I don't believe any of this was in place when the "play ups" joined.

    http://blog.collegehockeynews.com/2015/11/breaking-down-the-power-structure-of-the-ncaa-council-vote/
    Last edited by davyd83; 11-28-2015, 08:04 AM.
    "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

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    • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

      Originally posted by Almington View Post
      All the play-up schools knew the rules once the NCAA broke into divisions that if they wanted a vote they had to play in their primary division. By deciding to play-up but not move the full athletic department up, the schools were agreeing to those rules, regardless of the fairness of those rules all 22 of the play-up schools knew that they didn't have a direct vote when they made the decision to play at the D1 level.

      That doesn't change the fact that the way this was done makes the Big Ten look like a bunch of spoiled petulant babies, but the rules didn't suddenly change in the play-up schools. How the rules are being UTILIZED may have changed, but the rules themselves are the same as they were long before this age-limit change was proposed.
      what did change is the BIG became the first all-sport league with direct representation. Before that, there really wasn't any direct way to change anything in hockey so pardon me for thinking this special case doesn't mean that Michigan Tech should done something 30 years ago to prevent this. Apparently this was all part of the plan with starting the BIG in hockey.
      Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

      Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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      • Originally posted by Almington View Post
        No D2 championship exists because (nearly) all the D2 schools are playing up. I'm sure that if they wanted they could form a very nice D2 eastern and western leagues and get a NCAA championship where they get to make the rules.

        Each and everyone of these schools knew that they would have no direct vote in any matter before the D1 board when they decided to play-up (regardless of if the decision was forced upon them or not). This is not a surprise. These teams are effectively guests at the D1 level. It is no different than buying a vacation home in a neighboring state and then complaining that you don't get to vote in that state. You knew that was the trade-off that you were making when you made the decision to buy in another state.
        D2 rules say 40 schools must sponsor a sport before a championship can be offered.

        The NCAA takes care of this by allowing D2s to declare for the D1 championship when their divsion does not offer a championship..

        The other alternative is to do what the women did and have a multi division (D1 & D2) National Collegiate championship.
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        • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
          Meh, either way. With or without that quote, it's still embarrassing. "Big schools can't win with the given rules, so we're going to change them.
          The big schools can't win? First of all the Gophers have done just fine the past 4 years, BC is a "big school" on the stage, UMICH has a very good team this year, sure a few of the trads are struggling. You really think this is about a small cycle of down play? Most people are not that myopic and Lucia has given plenty of reasons why this proposal has nothing to do with competing. Never mind the B1G wants to redshirt all Fr in FB. Are they also unable to compete?

          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
          Seriously. For the first time I can remember, I'm embarrassed by our coach.
          I realize over-reacting is your shtick, but did you read who Lucia was referring to with that quote? One of his own players and he was upset a veteran guy would make such an elementary mistake.

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          • Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post
            The Big 10 schools needed the non-DI schools also. When I started college, the WCHA had seven members, three Big Ten schools (Michigan, Minnesota, and MSU) and four play-up schools (MTU, North Dakota, Denver, and CC). Duluth became the eighth member and fifth play-up while I was still an undergrad. Perhaps they should have stayed a three-team league. The Big Ten schools needed the play-ups, and the present state of their league shows that they still do, only they are too greedy to admit it.

            BTW, years ago on USCHO I posted on several occasions that there is something weird about freshmen entering college who are older than I was when I graduated (about 20 years and 5 months). Other posters at the time disagreed with this pointing out that age discrimination is illegal. (And others said that the problem was with me being 16 when I entered college. ) I hemmed and hawed and said that makes sense but it still bothered me. Nothing has really changed over the years.
            College, and the age of those attending, has changed. I wouldn't be surprised if at least 25-30% of the students at the U of Minnesota are at least 24 years old. Lucia shouldn't worry. A 25 year old will fit right in.
            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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            • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

              Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
              what did change is the BIG became the first all-sport league with direct representation. Before that, there really wasn't any direct way to change anything in hockey so pardon me for thinking this special case doesn't mean that Michigan Tech should done something 30 years ago to prevent this. Apparently this was all part of the plan with starting the BIG in hockey.
              I believe there are more ideas coming down the pipe that people will be unhappy with. Buckle up we are not done yet.
              Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
              dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
              wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

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              • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
                I believe there are more ideas coming down the pipe that people will be unhappy with. Buckle up we are not done yet.
                Wouldn't surprise me.
                Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                  That's why it's so important to push back now. This is just the beginning of the big schools marginalizing the small schools. It has nothing to do with the health of the game, diversity, or competitive balance. It has everything to do with shifting the balance of power back to the big schools.
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                  Originally posted by SanTropez
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                  Originally posted by bigblue_dl
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                  When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
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                  • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                    Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
                    I believe there are more ideas coming down the pipe that people will be unhappy with. Buckle up we are not done yet.
                    Lucia will next be introducing legislation making it against the rules for non-Big Five Conference schools to host Big Five Conference teams in non-conference game. Non-Big Five teams will have to go on the road. This includes forcing the Alaska schools to have their tournaments played at Marriucci/Yost/etc. should a BIG team be invited to the tournament.
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                    • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                      Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                      That's why it's so important to push back now. This is just the beginning of the big schools marginalizing the small schools. It has nothing to do with the health of the game, diversity, or competitive balance. It has everything to do with shifting the balance of power back to the big schools.
                      You can push back but the NCAA likely will listen to the Big Ten before the rest of college hockey.
                      Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
                      dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
                      wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

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                      • Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
                        You can push back but the NCAA likely will listen to the Big Ten before the rest of college hockey.
                        And that's a major problem.
                        "If you leave ignorance and stupidity alone, ignorance and stupidity will think it's ok."
                        -Gallagher

                        R.I.P.
                        Grandpa G. ~ Feb 11, 1918-Oct. 6, 1999
                        Grandma ~ Jan 2004
                        Dad ~ Nov. 4, 1958-April 21, 2008
                        Grandpa S. ~ June 21, 1932-November 11, 2013

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                        • Originally posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
                          And that's a major problem.
                          Agreed, it is a serious problem. And that's why it's important that criticism be focused where it is merited rather than on knee-jerk responses that just don't hold up to scrutiny.

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                          • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                            This season Big 10 gets an autobid and the rule of their choice. Can't wait till next year.
                            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                            • Originally posted by Stauber1 View Post
                              Agreed, it is a serious problem. And that's why it's important that criticism be focused where it is merited rather than on knee-jerk responses that just don't hold up to scrutiny.
                              To me...the why matters less than the fact it was done in the first place.
                              I think there is likely some truth to the not winning angle of it but at this point the why is irrelevant.
                              The fact that 6 schools want to dictate to 54 others is the height if arrogance...but sadly right on par with P5 schools and the B1G.
                              "If you leave ignorance and stupidity alone, ignorance and stupidity will think it's ok."
                              -Gallagher

                              R.I.P.
                              Grandpa G. ~ Feb 11, 1918-Oct. 6, 1999
                              Grandma ~ Jan 2004
                              Dad ~ Nov. 4, 1958-April 21, 2008
                              Grandpa S. ~ June 21, 1932-November 11, 2013

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                              • Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

                                Originally posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
                                To me...the why matters less than the fact it was done in the first place.
                                I think there is likely some truth to the not winning angle of it but at this point the why is irrelevant.
                                The fact that 6 schools want to dictate to 54 others is the height if arrogance...but sadly right on par with P5 schools and the B1G.
                                Hey the Big Ten makes sure every body knows that they are Public Ivies. It's all about the student athletes in fact they would rather be known for curing cancer than winning championships.
                                Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
                                dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
                                wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

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