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View Full Version : BU Recruiting Update, Part 4



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mookie1995
09-20-2017, 07:22 AM
As I said, I'm not knocking the player. The fact that the Goalie Coach leaving UNH played into his decision to decommit is just another reason why recruiting should be fixed.

fixed how though? mookie hopes you include provisions that disallow coaches to leave then. or make them sit out a year like kids have to if they want to change schools...

Agganis
09-20-2017, 08:12 AM
The fact that the Goalie Coach leaving UNH played into his decision to decommit is just another reason why recruiting should be fixed.

The coach who recruited you leaving the school before you arrive shouldn't be allowed to impact your decision? I don't follow this at all.

Dan
09-20-2017, 08:28 AM
The coach who recruited you leaving the school before you arrive shouldn't be allowed to impact your decision? I don't follow this at all.

That's not the coach who recruited him and it's pure speculation that's why he dropped his commitment to UNH. Speculation generated mainly to protect the coach who does the recruiting...

Agganis
09-20-2017, 08:33 AM
That's not the coach who recruited him and it's pure speculation that's why he dropped his commitment to UNH. Speculation generated mainly to protect the coach who does the recruiting...

I'll take your word on it, as I obviously have no idea what went down at UNH. But the general (albeit possibly hypothetical) thinking that a coach who recruited (or was involved in your recruitment/commitment) leaving shouldn't be allowed to change a player's mind on if he wants to play for that team doesn't make sense to me.

BU Fan 84
09-20-2017, 09:20 AM
To start, please note that I'm not writing this to pick on Drew Commesso. I hope he is ultimately happy with his College choice. The particulars of his recruitment make a great example of why recruiting should be addressed. When he committed to UNH, he said he was excited to help rebuild a down on its luck Program and that he liked a Campus that was not in the City. Now he commits to a Program that couldn't be more in the city and couldn't be farther from needing a rebuild.

It sounds like what you want changed is a player's right to say nice things about a school once he commits there?

brassbonanza
09-20-2017, 09:29 AM
That's not the coach who recruited him and it's pure speculation that's why he dropped his commitment to UNH. Speculation generated mainly to protect the coach who does the recruiting...

If you think the goalie coach at a school doesn't have a significant impact on whether a goalie recruit attends said school, then I don't know where to start.

defkit
09-20-2017, 10:00 AM
If you think the goalie coach at a school doesn't have a significant impact on whether a goalie recruit attends said school, then I don't know where to start.

Agreed. The goalie coach likely means more than the head coach. Coaching changes have long had impacts on recruiting.

Is there potential that BU's resurgence and UNH's challenges played a role? Of course, but likely not the primary decision making.

Agganis
09-20-2017, 10:16 AM
Is there potential that BU's resurgence and UNH's challenges played a role? Of course, but likely not the primary decision making.

He had only been committed to UNH from December 2016 to August 2017. Nothing really changed about BU or UNH's future outlook in those 8 months.

Lemonade
09-20-2017, 10:44 AM
If you think the goalie coach at a school doesn't have a significant impact on whether a goalie recruit attends said school, then I don't know where to start.

You are 100% correct. Goalie coaches are more important to goaltenders than any head coach relationship. Mike Buckley isnt some run of the mill goalie coach - he is one of the top goalie coaches in the world. He has worked with Fleury and Matt Murray and a long list of NHL pros. We are talking a goalie coach for several Stanley Cup winning goaltenders. Him leaving UNH to become full time for the Penguins is a no brainer for him professionally but was a huge loss for UNH coaching staff - if you dont think that played a huge role in a goalie possibly decommiting then you are crazy. At the end of the day its BUs gain and UNH loss....again. Kids decommit for a wide range of reasons (they are only young kids who change their minds - shocking!!!) but having a coach leave is a legit and no brainer reason to do so.

C-H-C
09-20-2017, 11:06 AM
Excerpt from an interview with Commesso (http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2016/12/14-year-old-goalie-drew-commesso.html) soon after he committed to UNH in December, 2016:

"When did you start working with former professional goalie Brian Eklund (masscrease.com)?

Commesso: I started with Coach Eklund when I was about 7 when he just started teaching goalies. He has trained me since day one and taught me everything I know about the position. He is an awesome coach who pushes me to be my best."

Eklund is BU's volunteer goalie coach.

PPGuru
09-20-2017, 12:10 PM
fixed how though? mookie hopes you include provisions that disallow coaches to leave then. or make them sit out a year like kids have to if they want to change schools...

Mookie, I've had personal experience with the recruiting process. Believe me, I'm all for more rights for the kids. One of the best examples of what you're saying about Coaches is in Dan Shaughnessy's book, Senior Year. Dan's son was torn between Notre Dame and BC for baseball. I can't remember which school was the winner but a big part of choosing was the Coaches themselves. Before the kid enrolled, both Coaches had moved on.

PPGuru
09-20-2017, 12:13 PM
It sounds like what you want changed is a player's right to say nice things about a school once he commits there?

No, not at all. I was pointing out how things changed in less than a year. I'd like to see these kids make the best choices they can and I don't think they can do that at 14.

PPGuru
09-20-2017, 12:21 PM
The coach who recruited you leaving the school before you arrive shouldn't be allowed to impact your decision? I don't follow this at all.
I totally believe that a Coach leaving should allow you to re-examine your commitment. (Right now, schools let you reopen your recruitment if the Head Coach leaves after you sign the NLI. Do you know if they let you do that if an assistant leaves? Honest question.) My point is that the players can't be making their most informed choice at 14. I'd like to see the Players have the time to make the best choice they can.

J.D.
09-20-2017, 12:44 PM
That's not the coach who recruited him and it's pure speculation that's why he dropped his commitment to UNH. Speculation generated mainly to protect the coach who does the recruiting...

Remember, david quinn would never poach a recruit!!!

Dan
09-20-2017, 01:08 PM
If you think the goalie coach at a school doesn't have a significant impact on whether a goalie recruit attends said school, then I don't know where to start.

If you think that is what I said, then I don't know where to start.

I was responding directly to Agganis and nothing more. Souza recruited Commesso and his decommitting due to Buckley's departure was raised on the UNH thread as a way to rationalize his departure. There has been zero said to lead anyone to believe that might actually be the case. It's just as likely, the goalie coach he DOES work with every day was in his ear about continuing their relationship. It's just as likely he noticed that his commitment to UNH did not lead to any additional impact recruits or signs of promised improvement. It's just as likely, he committed to UNH - the first school to offer and then simply changed his mind (he's just a kid). It's just as likely, that a handful of schools, including BU, did not stop recruiting him despite his verbal commitment.

Until someone speaks to someone who actually knows - it remains simple speculation. BU fans and UNH fans clearly have their own reasons to speculate and rationalize the decision. As far as the UNH recruiting thread is concerned the speculation that the departure of a volunteer coach (a coach who was hardly on campus on a daily basis due to numerous additional responsibilities AND who was given quite a hard time on UNH threads up until this loss/promotion) was the primary or sole cause of Commesso's departure is done mainly to dismiss the idea that the current recruiters simply aren't up for the job. Its another in a laundry list of excuses why little old UNH/UNH recruiters just can't be expected to win games or recruiting battles these days...

I suppose for some its easier to digest the excuses than to address the recruiting red flags facing UNH, recently. Including their glacial pace and passive approach to recruiting, the alarming lack of commitments in general (Let alone high-end talent), the high number of recent decommits (Farabee, Commesso, Ryzek, Masonious, O'Neill x 2) or the fact that UNH's recent downturn started with key decommitments (Many - Laleggia - cited a lack of connection, communication with the coaching staff after verbaling as a significant reason. While other's academic issues -
White/Reid - indicated a critical lack of attention from UNH coaches.)...

The coach who recruited Cale Makar to UMass departed, yet the new coaching staff maintained that commitment anyway...

----

And none of this is directed at you, Lemonade. I know you also see significant issues in UNH recruiting. It could well be true Commesso decommited as a result of Buckley leaving the program. I would be much more likely to agree if Commesso was a Buckley disciple like so many other recent UNH goalies. He's not. To me, this is much more indicative of deeper, and often recurring, problems at UNH...

bothman
09-20-2017, 02:42 PM
My takes:

- The Commesso (or should we say "Kush" from Jerry McGuire) handshake clearly isn't made out of oak. I trust he made a conscious and informed choice, but that is something that he will carry with him (good, bad, or indifferent)
- I have no problem with Commesso doing this, especially given the lack of parity that exists once a player walks through the door (kids having to sit a year to transfer vs a coach not having to is a complete joke and conflict of interest). These are young kids and sometimes we forget that with the amount of hype and fanfare they receive. To expect grace and consistency is unrealistic

I would be very interested in an analysis that looks at the success de-commits have had over the years relative to a comparable set of players who remained true to their word. I know that generally speaking, those that have de-committed from Harvard have certainly faired worse than those who have honored their commitment. Small sample size here, but folks like Bracco and Leblanc come to mind as those who have underachieved vs perhaps a Joe Woll who is someone who has succeeded.

Is there a "cost" to de-committing (social, emotional, etc) that would seem to effect future performance?

Scarlet
09-20-2017, 03:15 PM
Remember, david quinn would never poach a recruit!!!

You are correct. So nice to see a fan of our rival be so supportive.

Lemonade
09-20-2017, 03:58 PM
If you think that is what I said, then I don't know where to start.

I was responding directly to Agganis and nothing more. Souza recruited Commesso and his decommitting due to Buckley's departure was raised on the UNH thread as a way to rationalize his departure. There has been zero said to lead anyone to believe that might actually be the case. It's just as likely, the goalie coach he DOES work with every day was in his ear about continuing their relationship. It's just as likely he noticed that his commitment to UNH did not lead to any additional impact recruits or signs of promised improvement. It's just as likely, he committed to UNH - the first school to offer and then simply changed his mind (he's just a kid). It's just as likely, that a handful of schools, including BU, did not stop recruiting him despite his verbal commitment.

Until someone speaks to someone who actually knows - it remains simple speculation. BU fans and UNH fans clearly have their own reasons to speculate and rationalize the decision. As far as the UNH recruiting thread is concerned the speculation that the departure of a volunteer coach (a coach who was hardly on campus on a daily basis due to numerous additional responsibilities AND who was given quite a hard time on UNH threads up until this loss/promotion) was the primary or sole cause of Commesso's departure is done mainly to dismiss the idea that the current recruiters simply aren't up for the job. Its another in a laundry list of excuses why little old UNH/UNH recruiters just can't be expected to win games or recruiting battles these days...

I suppose for some its easier to digest the excuses than to address the recruiting red flags facing UNH, recently. Including their glacial pace and passive approach to recruiting, the alarming lack of commitments in general (Let alone high-end talent), the high number of recent decommits (Farabee, Commesso, Ryzek, Masonious, O'Neill x 2) or the fact that UNH's recent downturn started with key decommitments (Many - Laleggia - cited a lack of connection, communication with the coaching staff after verbaling as a significant reason. While other's academic issues -
White/Reid - indicated a critical lack of attention from UNH coaches.)...

The coach who recruited Cale Makar to UMass departed, yet the new coaching staff maintained that commitment anyway...

----

And none of this is directed at you, Lemonade. I know you also see significant issues in UNH recruiting. It could well be true Commesso decommited as a result of Buckley leaving the program. I would be much more likely to agree if Commesso was a Buckley disciple like so many other recent UNH goalies. He's not. To me, this is much more indicative of deeper, and often recurring, problems at UNH...


Hey I totally get it. As a UNH fan we could put a list a mile long of late of reasons why a player would decommit from UNH currently. If I had the option of choosing between BU and UNH as they currently are situated hockey wise you would have to be an idiot to pick UNH over BU. It was probably a multitude of reasons - goalie coach left, no recruits committing of late, poor team performance, maybe friends commited elswhere, may want to stay closer to home, etc. etc. Pure fact is decommiting or as its termed nowadays "switching commitments" is common among players. The recruiting system is broken and until its fixed (not sure how) then you cant expect 14 or 15 year olds to make concrete decisions based on their hockey ability and athletic ability so these things are bound to happen. You cant put blame the recruits as they didnt make up the recruiting process they are just playing by the rules. Making contact between a player and school illegal until say late in jr year of high school and have them sign NLI then and get rid of verbals may be a resolution. Got me. Any reason given why Farabee decommited from UNH?

Rogie21
09-20-2017, 04:08 PM
My takes:

I would be very interested in an analysis that looks at the success de-commits have had over the years relative to a comparable set of players who remained true to their word. I know that generally speaking, those that have de-committed from Harvard have certainly faired worse than those who have honored their commitment. Small sample size here, but folks like Bracco and Leblanc come to mind as those who have underachieved vs perhaps a Joe Woll who is someone who has succeeded.

Is there a "cost" to de-committing (social, emotional, etc) that would seem to effect future performance?

Well, there's the case of ex-NU and ex-BU commit Cameron Askew (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=177694).

Dan
09-20-2017, 04:43 PM
Hey I totally get it. As a UNH fan we could put a list a mile long of late of reasons why a player would decommit from UNH currently. If I had the option of choosing between BU and UNH as they currently are situated hockey wise you would have to be an idiot to pick UNH over BU. It was probably a multitude of reasons - goalie coach left, no recruits committing of late, poor team performance, maybe friends commited elswhere, may want to stay closer to home, etc. etc. Pure fact is decommiting or as its termed nowadays "switching commitments" is common among players. The recruiting system is broken and until its fixed (not sure how) then you cant expect 14 or 15 year olds to make concrete decisions based on their hockey ability and athletic ability so these things are bound to happen. You cant put blame the recruits as they didnt make up the recruiting process they are just playing by the rules. Making contact between a player and school illegal until say late in jr year of high school and have them sign NLI then and get rid of verbals may be a resolution. Got me. Any reason given why Farabee decommited from UNH?

I don't blame Commesso or hold grudges against him in the least. This is a UNH problem and that's my focus. Farabee is another example of coaches at UNH 'neglecting' recruits - the rumor I heard was that when Borek left for PC, he didn't feel like he had a relationship with anyone at UNH. That's what happens when your HC is completely absent from the recruiting process. You clearly can't blame Farabee for his decision either. Though, I'd have put money on him decommitting even if Borek had been the HC-in-waiting choice. Unless UNH gets aggressive in recruiting and strings together high-end commits, the few they do catch in their passive nets are going to have wandering eyes...

Kids are committing too soon, coaches are offering too soon and opposing coaches don't respect verbals enough to stop recruiting commits (it was pretty well known, Commesso was decommitting to go to BU - so somehow it got in his ear that BU had a scholarship for him). Pushing the clock back doesn't work - its far too easy to get around 'contact' rules. Get rid of verbals and allow NLI's to be signed once kids enter HS. The result? Players nor coaches will want that level of commitment so soon and to a large degree early commitments go away...