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mookie1995
12-07-2015, 09:50 AM
If Charlie makes the US team Mookie is betting heavy on their opponent every game. He is slower than every 23yo in HEA.
Can't imagine how low his +\- will be against talented like-agers :eek:

Agganis
12-07-2015, 10:50 AM
New normal? BU has always had kids in the WJC just like other programs. Certainly don't have a problem building your schedule like that, it's a shrewd move. Now I'm curious if any other programs do that or will do that. If everyone started doi g it, kinda takes away from the holiday tournaments.

New normal was in reference to the schedule being built that way, not that BU kids are going to the WJC. But to that point does anyone have any idea the most BU players to ever go to one WJC? When this schedule was built there were 7 BU players that were candidates (JFK, Greenway, Letunov, MacLeod, Fortunato, McAvoy, and Hickey), although now 3-5 is probably the realistic range, but would 5 still be the most ever for the school?

antioch1098
12-07-2015, 12:11 PM
Good luck in Hamden on Saturday. It should be a good game. Eli's on Whitney and Sidestreet Bar and Grill are two great places down the road for dinner. Tailgating also might be permitted in the TD Bank Sports Center parking lot. Go Bobcats!

mookie1995
12-07-2015, 04:02 PM
Lucky US camp starts on 14th

Rogie21
12-07-2015, 04:29 PM
New normal was in reference to the schedule being built that way, not that BU kids are going to the WJC. But to that point does anyone have any idea the most BU players to ever go to one WJC? When this schedule was built there were 7 BU players that were candidates (JFK, Greenway, Letunov, MacLeod, Fortunato, McAvoy, and Hickey), although now 3-5 is probably the realistic range, but would 5 still be the most ever for the school?

US camp roster: Kieffer Bellows, Clayton Keller, Charlie McAvoy, Brandon Fortunato, Chad Krys.
http://worldjuniors.usahockey.com/page/show/2253828-pre-tournament-camp-roster.

Lots of drama on the BC thread about players not invited. Very surprised Tuch wasn't invited. Bracco also snubbed and it seems his family has gone over the edge and thinks York had a hand it it. :rolleyes:

Sean Pickett
12-08-2015, 05:37 PM
Now that the last of the 4 pm games has been played I took a look at the attendance figures. As I mentioned a while back it is hard to do a straight comparison due to different teams playing, lack of a home game on the same weekend Saturday, etc., but I did match five of the six 4 pm games to a similar game played last season. The one game I did not match was the Denver Halloween game as it had no similar game last year to compare with. I matched 3 games vs the same team, even though they were on different weekends and the other two I used the opponents for the same weekend:

exhibition game
10/04/14 - 3542 - St. Thomas
10/03/15 - 2974 - Acadia
difference: -568

regular season games
11/08/14 - 4658 - Connecticut
10/24/15 - 4199 - Connecticut
difference: -459

10/31/15 - 3084 - Denver

11/01/14 - 4648 - Providence
11/14/15 - 5508 - Providence
difference: +860

10/25/14 - 5846 - Michigan
11/21/15 - 5003 - Michigan
difference: -843

12/06/14 - 4366 - Merrimack
12/05/15 - 3765 - Vermont
difference: -601

The exhibition games were the same weekend, as were the Merrimack and Vermont games, and both had significant attendance drops (16% and 14% respectively). The Connecticut game this season was 2 weeks earlier than last season and saw a 10% drop in attendance, while the Michigan game was a month later this season and saw a 14% drop in attendance. The Providence game was 2 weeks later this season and had an 18.5% increase in attendance, most likely due to fans wanting to see the rematch of the NC game. The 4 pm games did not increase attendance, as even with the Providence game the attendance for the five games declined by 1611 (7%) for an average decrease of 322 per game.

Sean

Agganis
12-08-2015, 06:18 PM
This won't change the overall conclusions, but I believe last year's exhibition game was also at 4pm, so those two should be removed from the comparison of 7pm vs 4pm.

antioch1098
12-08-2015, 06:30 PM
Are you guys ready for your first men's hockey loss to Quinnipiac University? The first of many!

mookie1995
12-08-2015, 06:57 PM
Are you guys ready for your first men's hockey loss to Quinnipiac University? The first of many!

Yup

Hokydad
12-08-2015, 07:59 PM
Conor Garland was snubbed, not Bracco. Much more deserving
http://theqmjhl.ca/stars/garland-belanger-and-richard-named-the-three-stars-of-the-week/

FiveHole12
12-08-2015, 08:00 PM
Posts #708 and 709 were very insightful.
It's why I stop over here from time to time.
Knowledge is King!



;) :D

Scarlet
12-08-2015, 08:04 PM
Conor Garland was snubbed, not Bracco. Much more deserving
http://theqmjhl.ca/stars/garland-belanger-and-richard-named-the-three-stars-of-the-week/

Um, OK?

ericredaxe
12-08-2015, 08:48 PM
Now that the last of the 4 pm games has been played I took a look at the attendance figures. As I mentioned a while back it is hard to do a straight comparison due to different teams playing, lack of a home game on the same weekend Saturday, etc., but I did match five of the six 4 pm games to a similar game played last season. The one game I did not match was the Denver Halloween game as it had no similar game last year to compare with. I matched 3 games vs the same team, even though they were on different weekends and the other two I used the opponents for the same weekend:

exhibition game
10/04/14 - 3542 - St. Thomas
10/03/15 - 2974 - Acadia
difference: -568

regular season games
11/08/14 - 4658 - Connecticut
10/24/15 - 4199 - Connecticut
difference: -459

10/31/15 - 3084 - Denver

11/01/14 - 4648 - Providence
11/14/15 - 5508 - Providence
difference: +860

10/25/14 - 5846 - Michigan
11/21/15 - 5003 - Michigan
difference: -843

12/06/14 - 4366 - Merrimack
12/05/15 - 3765 - Vermont
difference: -601

The exhibition games were the same weekend, as were the Merrimack and Vermont games, and both had significant attendance drops (16% and 14% respectively). The Connecticut game this season was 2 weeks earlier than last season and saw a 10% drop in attendance, while the Michigan game was a month later this season and saw a 14% drop in attendance. The Providence game was 2 weeks later this season and had an 18.5% increase in attendance, most likely due to fans wanting to see the rematch of the NC game. The 4 pm games did not increase attendance, as even with the Providence game the attendance for the five games declined by 1611 (7%) for an average decrease of 322 per game.

Sean

Out of interest I took a look at all of the games not included in the above comparison.

2014:
10/18/14 - 3,921 - U18
10/24/14 - 4639 - Michigan State
11/21/14 - 5291 - Maine
11/25/14 - 4456 - Harvard
11/29/14 - 4585 - Colgate

2014 average = 4587


2015:
10/16/15 - 2784 - U18
10/17/15 - 5515 - Wisco
10/31/15 - 3084 - Denver
11/6/15 - 5363 - Northeastern
11/24/15 - 3475 - Bentley
12/4/15 - 4002 - Vermont

2015 average = 4082


So for games not used in the 4PM comparison the average attendance drop was 496 per game or 12.1%

It seems that attendance is dropping overall (likely due to no Eichel to draw fans in). As the non 4PM game drop was greater than the 4PM game drop it is possible that the early games did help attendance.

In fairness, 2015 did have the Halloween game (which was stupid), but even if you take that game out the average drop was 351 fans per game, still greater than the 4PM game drop.

Tater
12-08-2015, 09:41 PM
In fairness, 2015 did have the Halloween game (which was stupid), but even if you take that game out the average drop was 351 fans per game, still greater than the 4PM game drop.

Well, the Halloween game was a 4pm game so you shouldn't include it anyways for non-4pm comparison! :) Sean was being gracious. If he had included it, the 4pm drop would be greater.

So, -322/-351. Virtually even given there are so many other variables involved. One thing I have noticed (no scientific analysis though), is that students are not flocking to the 4pm games. Must have been 50-60 students Saturday? I was hoping for a positive effect there which would have softened my disdain for 4pm games.

Since a supposed 85% wanted 4pm games you would thought there would be a positive effect to attendance. As I told a fellow season-ticket holder during Saturday's game, "This '85%' certainly aren't voting with their attendance!"

Agganis
12-09-2015, 07:47 AM
This won't change the overall conclusions, but I believe last year's exhibition game was also at 4pm, so those two should be removed from the comparison of 7pm vs 4pm.


So, -322/-351. Virtually even given there are so many other variables involved. One thing I have noticed (no scientific analysis though), is that students are not flocking to the 4pm games. Must have been 50-60 students Saturday? I was hoping for a positive effect there which would have softened my disdain for 4pm games.

I just checked and the Canadian exhibition last year and this year were both at 4pm, so that going down is not evidence of the 4pm time slot hurting it.

Using the attendance numbers below there were 6 "equivalent" games that did not change time slot from 2014 to 2015: (Canadian Exh, U18s, MSU, ME, HU, and Colgate vs Canadian Exh, U18s, UW, NU, Bentley, UVM) those games dropped by 387 people per game or 8.8%, so a similar drop off on the new 4pm games would show it had virtually no impact, a greater drop off would show it hurt.

There were 4 "equivalent" games that moved from 7pm Saturday to 4pm Saturday (UC, PC, Mich, MC vs UC, PC, Mich, UVM) those games dropped by 261 people per game or 5.3%. This is only 64% of the drop the previous 6 games did, so I think the 4pm games helped attendance a bit, but probably not as much as BU anticipated. I did also notice the weak student crowds Tater did, which makes me less inclined to say the 4pm games are a good thing.

Bomber
12-09-2015, 08:33 AM
I'm an old fart with kids and I have grown to hate the 4pm games. They cut into fall sports schedules and Saturday plans.

BU Hockey: Bad Timing

Friend_of_BU_Hockey
12-09-2015, 09:25 AM
I just checked and the Canadian exhibition last year and this year were both at 4pm, so that going down is not evidence of the 4pm time slot hurting it.

Using the attendance numbers below there were 6 "equivalent" games that did not change time slot from 2014 to 2015: (Canadian Exh, U18s, MSU, ME, HU, and Colgate vs Canadian Exh, U18s, UW, NU, Bentley, UVM) those games dropped by 387 people per game or 8.8%, so a similar drop off on the new 4pm games would show it had virtually no impact, a greater drop off would show it hurt.

There were 4 "equivalent" games that moved from 7pm Saturday to 4pm Saturday (UC, PC, Mich, MC vs UC, PC, Mich, UVM) those games dropped by 261 people per game or 5.3%. This is only 64% of the drop the previous 6 games did, so I think the 4pm games helped attendance a bit, but probably not as much as BU anticipated. I did also notice the weak student crowds Tater did, which makes me less inclined to say the 4pm games are a good thing.


If given the opportunity, I strongly hope anyone/everyone who disliked the 4pm games to provide feedback. I agree that the 4pm games didn't have the impact the decision-makers anticipated, especially since their likely target was the non-season ticket holder/casual fan whom represent potential revenue opportunities.

Having said that, I think the only games where the 4pm start time adversely affected attendance were the Denver and Vermont games. I don't think we would have seen much of a difference in attendance for the Canadian Exh, UCONN, PC and Michigan games if those were 7pm starts.

I hope in reviewing the outcome of the 4pm games, they do take student turnout into stronger consideration. Unfortunately that demographic doesn't provide the same revenue opportunities as non-STH/casual fans do, but they have the biggest impact on the atmosphere during the game.

My biggest issue with 4pm starts wasn't the # of games, but the front-loading of these games into the 1st half of the season. I think if they had been distributed throughout the season, the quantitative and qualitative impact could have been mitigated.

Friend_of_BU_Hockey
12-09-2015, 09:26 AM
Since a supposed 85% wanted 4pm games you would thought there would be a positive effect to attendance. As I told a fellow season-ticket holder during Saturday's game, "This '85%' certainly aren't voting with their attendance!"

These might be the same folks in MA who voted for the 6.25% sales tax on alcohol purchases in package stores a few years ago only to quickly realize they didn't want it... :D

Sean Pickett
12-09-2015, 12:01 PM
These might be the same folks in MA who voted for the 6.25% sales tax on alcohol purchases in package stores a few years ago only to quickly realize they didn't want it... :DThose that voted for the sales tax likely were not affected by it...

Sean

Sean Pickett
12-09-2015, 12:36 PM
I just checked and the Canadian exhibition last year and this year were both at 4pm, so that going down is not evidence of the 4pm time slot hurting it.

Using the attendance numbers below there were 6 "equivalent" games that did not change time slot from 2014 to 2015: (Canadian Exh, U18s, MSU, ME, HU, and Colgate vs Canadian Exh, U18s, UW, NU, Bentley, UVM) those games dropped by 387 people per game or 8.8%, so a similar drop off on the new 4pm games would show it had virtually no impact, a greater drop off would show it hurt.

There were 4 "equivalent" games that moved from 7pm Saturday to 4pm Saturday (UC, PC, Mich, MC vs UC, PC, Mich, UVM) those games dropped by 261 people per game or 5.3%. This is only 64% of the drop the previous 6 games did, so I think the 4pm games helped attendance a bit, but probably not as much as BU anticipated. I did also notice the weak student crowds Tater did, which makes me less inclined to say the 4pm games are a good thing.I apologize for including the Canadian exhibition game, my mistake. As for the 4 pm games, only the Providence game attendance 'saved' the numbers. If you exclude it then the three remaining 4 pm games dropped 634 per game or 12.8%.

But, as was pointed out, overall attendance is down for all BU games this year, so let's just compare the 4 pm starts to the non- 4 pm starts (which are comprised of 4 Friday games - 1 at 6 pm and 3 at 7:30 pm, 1 Tuesday game and one Saturday game):
4 pm - 24,533 / 4,089 per game
others - 25,633 / 4,272 per game
Actual attendance was lower for the 4 pm games than the non-4 pm games so far this season (and I don't see that changing). In the end they may have had higher ticket sales and more families, but less students in attendance, in which case the 4 pm games could still be considered a success.

On a completely different topic, I'm a bit surprised that no one commented about the Holiday Skate. It seemed that it was scheduled at the last minute as I received an email last Tuesday about it being held on Sunday and requesting I reply by last Thursday. The women's team also had a game scheduled Sunday and had already previously scheduled a post game skate, so they were not there.

Sean