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Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

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  • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

    Originally posted by pokechecker View Post
    how many games do you suppose the tribal leaders of Standing Rock attend ? have they ever?
    if a fan whoops it up wearing a Fighting Sioux jersey, and there are no Standing Rock tribal leaders there to hear it, has an offense been made?

    so basically the argument is if just one person is offended, the other 10,000 have to pay the price
    of course that's always the Utopians argument for spending a bajillion dollars
    .... if it saves just one life (unless it is an unborn baby)
    LOL. OMG. Too effing funny. With just a few sentences you've completely outted yourself. What a shame for you that your stuck with so many ridiculous beliefs. Oh shucks ... nevermind; go back to listening to Rush Limbaugh.

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    • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

      Originally posted by uaafanblog View Post
      Do you think that them not voting somehow makes any sort of difference to the non-decision to support UND's use of the hostile and abusive moniker? Cos it doesn't. It's decided. Makes no difference whatsoever how the decision came to be.
      Uh, it actually did make a difference. If Chief His Horse Farts Thunder's tribe voted to support the name, the name would have stayed.
      Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
      Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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      • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

        Originally posted by icehawk View Post
        Have you been to Devils Lake lately or in the past? Native Americans there love their Sioux apparel. And yes I have seen and talked to many at hockey games. Have yet to come across one who is offended by the name. Not one.
        I am not trying to pick a side in this argument, I have no idea what percentage of Native Americans in the area supported the name/logo, hated it, didn't care or didn't know about it, but I don't think you made the best argument when you reference Native Americans AT HOCKEY GAMES. I'd say if they're at hockey games, they're likely less inclined to be offended by it. I'm also assuming most people think its ok to have premarital sex if you poll them at orgies.

        Notice I said poll, not pole
        tUMD is Jan Brady per Brenthoven. Whew.... thanks for clearing THAT up.

        Best USCHO quotes to date:

        "UND/DU will realize that their party sucks, because the easterners only want to drink Zima." - BPH

        "It is too bad that aaron marvin was a senior so he can't go after the rest of the sioux". - bigblue_dl

        "I would rather play the blackhawks than you right now." - dogs2012

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        • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

          Originally posted by SCSU Euro View Post
          I don't think you made the best argument when you reference Native Americans AT HOCKEY GAMES. I'd say if they're at hockey games, they're likely less inclined to be offended by it. I'm also assuming most people think its ok to have premarital sex if you poll them at orgies.
          Dam good analogy.

          Comment


          • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

            Originally posted by icehawk View Post
            I highly doubt it. It's just more piling on the great hockey program that is your Fighting Sioux. Haters will grab on to something and run with it to no end.
            I don't think anyone behind the ridiculous name-banning crusade gives a rat's arse about Sioux hockey. Yes you're going to see a few jump on the the topic in fan forums due to hating the program, but that's not the source of the 'movement'.

            Comment


            • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

              Originally posted by uaafanblog View Post
              Wow. Your two anecdotes have me convinced. Aboriginal Americans are not offended by the mocking symbols and bastardized racist names. They love them.
              good to see Chief Blows Smoke Out His Azz finally gets it
              Last edited by pokechecker; 08-19-2015, 01:49 PM.

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              • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

                Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                Uh, it actually did make a difference. If Chief His Horse Farts Thunder's tribe voted to support the name, the name would have stayed.
                And if your grandma had male genitalia she wouldn't be your grandmother. And if 75 years ago UND had created an endowment fund and it had been used for a couple of generations to try to right some of the wrongs done to these people and if they'd funded higher education for EVERY Native American in the state ... then the name would have stayed. You see how that game works now?

                You apparently don't understand that other sovereign entities can decide things however they want. They are not beholden to your democratic ideals. Their decision (whether made by a single person or via referendum) is entirely legitimate. The whining that "it wasn't democratic" is nonsense.

                Comment


                • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

                  Originally posted by pokechecker View Post
                  good to see Chief Blows Smoke Out His Azz finally gets it
                  Listen up you little panty wearing pile of dog manure ... I haven't attacked a single person in this thread. Toss out one more personal attack on me and you're gonna have a bad time. Ok junior?

                  Comment


                  • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

                    Lol.

                    Internet tough guy. Go back to your blog.
                    Code:
                    As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                    College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                    BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                    Originally posted by SanTropez
                    May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                    Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                    I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                    Originally posted by Kepler
                    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                    He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

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                    • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

                      Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                      Lol.

                      Internet tough guy. Go back to your blog.
                      People still read that crap?
                      Fly Eagles Fly!!!

                      Comment


                      • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

                        Originally posted by uaafanblog View Post
                        And if 75 years ago UND had created an endowment fund and it had been used for a couple of generations to try to right some of the wrongs done to these people and if they'd funded higher education for EVERY Native American in the state ... then the name would have stayed. You see how that game works now?
                        Couple of things. First, UND has a very strong track record in programs designed to benefit Native Americans. At least they did 25 years ago.

                        But more to your point, if the name was harmful, I'm not sure UND should be able to buy permission to use it. I think it was time for the name to go, but in that respect the NCAA's rationale was flawed. Once you determine that the dominant culture's use of a name (or some other act) causes harm to a historically discriminated group, it is flawed thinking to permit that group to acquiesce to that abuse by vote. After Brown, this country would not have permitted laws that require black people to ride in the back of the bus because black people accepted that treatment by vote. Acquiescence is one of the harmful side effects of a history of abuse. It causes anger to build, as we saw in the 60s, but it also causes acquiescence. If you truly believe someone is being abused, you do not allow them to simply agree to it. At least in my opinion.

                        Now, if the NCAA had addressed the issue as a property right or contract issue--that the name belonged to the tribes and that the right to use it was something the tribes could agree to sell or give away, that would be a different matter. But the NCAA basically said the name is abusive but we will let the Native Americans agree to that abuse.

                        Allowing the Native Americans to vote on the issue is flawed for another reason more directly related to Native American tribal politics. Most reservations I know have extremely "tribal" politics, no pun intended. Groups, sometimes family, come into and out of power on reservations, and policies tend to be very fickle. So the determination whether the use of the name is harmful is a moving target.

                        I'm not saying it is strictly up to white people to decide for Native Americans whether UND's use of the name is harmful and offensive. I think the use of the name is probably highly offensive to some or many Natives and possibly harmful. But if you are going to try to figure out whether that is true, you start by involving Native Americans from the beginning in determining whether the use of the name in this manner and in these times is harmful to them. And since it is the name that identifies who they are, you take that input seriously.

                        It may sound like approaching it that way is no different in the end--a distinction without a difference. But I don't think so. A small group of white people just should not be able to make a finding that use of the name is harmful on one hand then permit the victim to accept that harm on the other hand. That's arrogance first and Pontius Pilate second.

                        Sigh. Didn't intend to ramble like this when I started this post, and it will get ripped by some, as it probably should. But it was time to let go. The University will be just fine. The hockey team will be just fine. We hockey fans who have considered ourselves "Sioux" fans all our lives will be just fine. And the gophers will always suck.
                        Last edited by burd; 08-20-2015, 06:42 AM.

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                        • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

                          Originally posted by uaafanblog View Post
                          And if your grandma had male genitalia she wouldn't be your grandmother. And if 75 years ago UND had created an endowment fund and it had been used for a couple of generations to try to right some of the wrongs done to these people and if they'd funded higher education for EVERY Native American in the state ... then the name would have stayed. You see how that game works now?

                          You apparently don't understand that other sovereign entities can decide things however they want. They are not beholden to your democratic ideals. Their decision (whether made by a single person or via referendum) is entirely legitimate. The whining that "it wasn't democratic" is nonsense.
                          And you apparently don't understand that it was left up to two tribes to vote and decide if they wanted to support the nickname. One tribe voted, and supported. The other wasn't allowed to vote, because His Horse Farts Thunder didn't let his tribe vote, thereby making it a default "no support" vote, and making this whole mess happen.

                          If the NCAA flat out said, "You're going to change it, no matter what" then fine. They didn't, and they started this mess, and His Horse Farts Thunder's actions finished it.
                          Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                          Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                          Comment


                          • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

                            Originally posted by uaafanblog View Post
                            And if your grandma had male genitalia she wouldn't be your grandmother. And if 75 years ago UND had created an endowment fund and it had been used for a couple of generations to try to right some of the wrongs done to these people and if they'd funded higher education for EVERY Native American in the state ... then the name would have stayed. You see how that game works now?

                            You apparently don't understand that other sovereign entities can decide things however they want. They are not beholden to your democratic ideals. Their decision (whether made by a single person or via referendum) is entirely legitimate. The whining that "it wasn't democratic" is nonsense.
                            Originally posted by burd View Post
                            Couple of things. First, UND has a very strong track record in programs designed to benefit Native Americans. At least they did 25 years ago.

                            But more to your point, if the name was harmful, I'm not sure UND should be able to buy permission to use it. I think it was time for the name to go, but in that respect the NCAA's rationale was flawed. Once you determine that the dominant culture's use of a name (or some other act) causes harm to a historically discriminated group, it is flawed thinking to permit that group to acquiesce to that abuse by vote. After Brown, this country would not have permitted laws that require black people to ride in the back of the bus because black people accepted that treatment by vote. Acquiescence is one of the harmful side effects of a history of abuse. It causes anger to build, as we saw in the 60s, but it also causes acquiescence. If you truly believe someone is being abused, you do not allow them to simply agree to it. At least in my opinion.
                            My thoughts exactly when I read The Donald's comment. So, if UND had bribed the tribes with sufficient trinkets, beads and tuition money, native americans in North Dakota would have been happy to let the school continue using a name that is, in the opinion of some including Donald, racist, hostile and abusive? Now who is being truly derogatory?
                            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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                            • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

                              Originally posted by uaafanblog View Post
                              Listen up you little panty wearing pile of dog manure ... I haven't attacked a single person in this thread. Toss out one more personal attack on me and you're gonna have a bad time. Ok junior?
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynxPshq8ERo
                              tUMD is Jan Brady per Brenthoven. Whew.... thanks for clearing THAT up.

                              Best USCHO quotes to date:

                              "UND/DU will realize that their party sucks, because the easterners only want to drink Zima." - BPH

                              "It is too bad that aaron marvin was a senior so he can't go after the rest of the sioux". - bigblue_dl

                              "I would rather play the blackhawks than you right now." - dogs2012

                              Comment


                              • Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?

                                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                                My thoughts exactly when I read The Donald's comment. So, if UND had bribed the tribes with sufficient trinkets, beads and tuition money, native americans in North Dakota would have been happy to let the school continue using a name that is, in the opinion of some including Donald, racist, hostile and abusive? Now who is being truly derogatory?
                                Or Ralph E had a little more foresight in the whole naming issue and had put some good money into building things on the reservations that the assorted tribes could really use, like schools, hospitals, and other assorted things that would allow for long term jobs there.
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