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View Full Version : Wisconsin Hockey Recruiting Vol. XXXIV: Go pick me out a winner, Strand



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solovsfett
12-25-2015, 10:31 PM
No. When a kid is playing like a robot for fear of making a mistake that his nutcase coach will explode on him for that is very different than going out and playing as hard as you can.Playing with reckless abandon of you will...not playing like you're looking at the bench for approval. Hiring strand and bittner was forced on eaves. He was set to make NO changes to this team, the staff or his style of coaching or style or systems until Barry forced the issue. once Barry forced a change, yes, obviously the coach would hire the assistants otherwise Barry would just coach hockey, Jesus dude.

Also...source for the change in coaching philosophy in 2007 immediately after the ncaa title. Baggot reported the change in recruiting philosophy so look up on the state journal archives.

IndianaBadger1995
12-25-2015, 11:49 PM
No. When a kid is playing like a robot for fear of making a mistake that his nutcase coach will explode on him for that is very different than going out and playing as hard as you can.Playing with reckless abandon of you will...not playing like you're looking at the bench for approval. Hiring strand and bittner was forced on eaves. He was set to make NO changes to this team, the staff or his style of coaching or style or systems until Barry forced the issue. once Barry forced a change, yes, obviously the coach would hire the assistants otherwise Barry would just coach hockey, Jesus dude.

Is there any evidence of this or are you just guessing? The best players are always put in a position to succeed. If they don't do their job expect some yelling! God, these are hockey players... I'm sure they can take some yelling. You think Hakstol didn't yell at his players? You think Lucia doesn't yell at his players? These guys are not afraid to make mistakes, but they need to learn to minimize them when they do happen.

Is there a source that says Barry "forced" Eaves to fire his assistants? How about a link for something?

Gurtholfin
12-26-2015, 12:49 AM
Is there a source that says Barry "forced" Eaves to fire his assistants? How about a link for something?


If it's not obvious, then consider that at least one of them believes it to be the case.

Link me if you'd like.

I know them both and have friends who are good friends with both although I am not.

Hockey is an incredibly small world and the Madison area is smaller/tighter still.


Word gets around fast. Really fast.

IndianaBadger1995
12-26-2015, 01:22 AM
If it's not obvious, then consider that at least one of them believes it to be the case.

Link me if you'd like.

Here's a quote from an article (http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2015/4/9/8374673/wisconsin-hockey-mike-eaves-assistant-coaches) by Chuck:


"We wanted to make sure that our fan base and people know that this was not the kind of year we want to be about," Eaves told the State Journal. "Again, it was felt that significant changes had to be made to let everybody know that we're going work to get this (fixed)."

When asked by the State Journal if he gave Eaves an ultimatum between firing his assistants or losing his job, Alvarez declined comment. Eaves, however, denied there was any ultimatum, although it doesn't sound like he had his mind made up until the meeting.

Looks to me like Eaves and Alvarez met up to discuss things and mutually decided to fire Schuchuk and Walsh. Alvarez didn't force Eaves to fire anybody. Posters just see every situation how they like to fit their own agenda. Correct me if I'm wrong. Show me something.

Gurtholfin
12-26-2015, 01:24 AM
Here's a quote from an article (http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2015/4/9/8374673/wisconsin-hockey-mike-eaves-assistant-coaches) by Chuck:



Looks to me like Eaves and Alvarez met up to discuss things and mutually decided to fire Schuchuk and Walsh. Alvarez didn't force Eaves to fire anybody. Posters just see every situation how they like to fit their own agenda. Correct me if I'm wrong. Show me something.


How very true. ;)

IndianaBadger1995
12-26-2015, 02:11 AM
How very true. ;)

D'oh! You got me there! :p

UWisco
12-26-2015, 09:36 AM
Just looked at the recruiting chart. Stillwell is signed for next year not the one after.

solovsfett
12-26-2015, 02:03 PM
Here's a quote from an article (http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2015/4/9/8374673/wisconsin-hockey-mike-eaves-assistant-coaches) by Chuck:



Looks to me like Eaves and Alvarez met up to discuss things and mutually decided to fire Schuchuk and Walsh. Alvarez didn't force Eaves to fire anybody. Posters just see every situation how they like to fit their own agenda. Correct me if I'm wrong. Show me something.

one week after the worst season in program history Eaves was out watching or scouting a game with Schuchuk, this is well documented. he WAS NOT going to change a thing until the meeting where Alvarez apparently made it clear changes needed to be made.

that is when cement-head finally got it and obviously had to agree.

I don't understand what's so difficult about this.

gwhinwi
12-26-2015, 11:28 PM
Just looked at the recruiting chart. Stillwell is signed for next year not the one after.

My bad. I was operating off of the old document and hadn't updated it.

Thanks for the update. I was distracted by arguments in here that remind me of every holiday at home.

IndianaBadger1995
12-26-2015, 11:37 PM
one week after the worst season in program history Eaves was out watching or scouting a game with Schuchuk, this is well documented. he WAS NOT going to change a thing until the meeting where Alvarez apparently made it clear changes needed to be made.

that is when cement-head finally got it and obviously had to agree.

I don't understand what's so difficult about this.

I had something long typed up and I lost it because "the token has expired." The moral of the story was something like this: Schuchuk was still under contract and should have been working. Article said Eaves was unsure whether to fire him or not. You keep bringing up everything but coaching, except for roughly two sentences.

Recent success (20+ win seasons) in the last 7 seasons: Eaves and Berenson tied at 5/7. All the rest of the big ten coaches have fewer 20+ win seasons in the last 7 years. If you are expecting Eaves to be Jerry York then I guess I found out why you are so crabby to everyone around here.

You have a serious argument when it comes to recruiting; enough for him to be fired. But I think you are wrong when it comes to him actually coaching players.

Another problem that isn't discussed as much is having players leave for whatever reason. These players could have been on this year's roster:

Nic Kerdiles (1C)
Morgan Zulinick (top 6 forward)
Jack Dougherty (top 4 dman)
Keegan Ford (bottom 6 forward)

Yes, I will include the recruiting aspect just for you. It's awful, I do know that as well so no need to point it out. We lost:

Brock Boeser (1RW)
Luke Opilka (1G)
Christian Dvorak (top 6 LW)

I'm sure I'm missing somebody else.

solovsfett
12-28-2015, 08:19 AM
I had something long typed up and I lost it because "the token has expired." The moral of the story was something like this: Schuchuk was still under contract and should have been working. Article said Eaves was unsure whether to fire him or not. You keep bringing up everything but coaching, except for roughly two sentences.

Recent success (20+ win seasons) in the last 7 seasons: Eaves and Berenson tied at 5/7. All the rest of the big ten coaches have fewer 20+ win seasons in the last 7 years. If you are expecting Eaves to be Jerry York then I guess I found out why you are so crabby to everyone around here.

You have a serious argument when it comes to recruiting; enough for him to be fired. But I think you are wrong when it comes to him actually coaching players.

Another problem that isn't discussed as much is having players leave for whatever reason. These players could have been on this year's roster:

Nic Kerdiles (1C)
Morgan Zulinick (top 6 forward)
Jack Dougherty (top 4 dman)
Keegan Ford (bottom 6 forward)

Yes, I will include the recruiting aspect just for you. It's awful, I do know that as well so no need to point it out. We lost:

Brock Boeser (1RW)
Luke Opilka (1G)
Christian Dvorak (top 6 LW)

I'm sure I'm missing somebody else.

First, why are you comparing to b10 coaches solely? As it's turning out the B10 is chit compared to other conferences. MSU has been down for a while, tosu has virtually always sucked except for the one-two years they had the quebec line, psu is new.

Yes, Jerry York, that's exactly what I want. Someone like him but younger. Why would anyone want anything less than the best?

I bring everything up but coaching... what exactly about coaching do you want to discuss? the trap? the collapsing into a shell in the 3rd period? the fact that many players since 2003 seem to be playing in fear of making a mistake? the fact many players play like robots for Eaves? the fact that he has been there what, 12-13 years? and only 2-3 of those seasons have they shown real firepower?

look - I think he's a headcase. he knows hockey but I don't care about that. he's lost a ton of sway in recruiting circles and that's more than enough for me. I'll respond more later

KaMiGo
12-28-2015, 01:16 PM
Do we really need to have 2 (well 3 if you count the "Fire Eaves" thread) where the same arguments/discussions are going on?

Let's try to keep the Eaves-bashing in the recruiting thread to recruiting items?

Gurtholfin
12-29-2015, 01:42 AM
Do we really need to have 2 (well 3 if you count the "Fire Eaves" thread) where the same arguments/discussions are going on?

Let's try to keep the Eaves-bashing in the recruiting thread to recruiting items?


Maybe you could just make an Eaves appreciation thread?

Could keep all of the apologizing in one spot?

KaMiGo
12-29-2015, 10:22 AM
Maybe you could just make an Eaves appreciation thread?

Could keep all of the apologizing in one spot?

Interesting idea, but I'm sure that any thread that is about UW or Eaves would pretty quickly be overrun by the doom and gloom crowd.

I'm not saying that people can't say what they want, this is an anonymous internet message board, there are no real rules here. But we have 3 separate threads; 1 for the movement to get Eaves fired, 1 for recruiting talk/updates, and 1 for the season and other general topics that relate to current events. It would be nice if we could keep the discussions in each thread to the topic identified by the title.

If people want to get into Eaves bashing in the recruiting thread, it would be nice if it would be kept to recruiting issues only. That's all that I was saying. However, I'm sure that people will find a way to justify anything..."But, his horrible trap system limits our ability to get high-end recruits"..."His inability to win games in overtime means that we end up with a team full of 3rd/4th line grinders"...blah blah blah

markwojo
12-29-2015, 10:40 AM
You forgot the alienating alumni and massively unbalanced classes creating a rollercoaster cycle of feast to famine that he hasn't managed to solve for 4 complete recruiting cycles not helping with recruiting either. Although in fairness to metaphor Mike, he seems to have figured out how to solve the unbalanced classes for next year....just line up 20+ forwards on the roster and have at it.

Kidding aside (well I was sort of kidding)....why did Fredrick not sign in the early signing period and why did that seem to not even create a ripple? I know the media coverage now that Baggott is a paid spokesman (and even the non traditional "media" in Chuck) aren't there to ask any questions...but why does Fredrick seem like the next Boesser? Am I maybe completely missing something in that he was to young or some other factor where he couldn't sign last month?

IndianaBadger1995
12-29-2015, 03:15 PM
You forgot the alienating alumni and massively unbalanced classes creating a rollercoaster cycle of feast to famine that he hasn't managed to solve for 4 complete recruiting cycles not helping with recruiting either. Although in fairness to metaphor Mike, he seems to have figured out how to solve the unbalanced classes for next year....just line up 20+ forwards on the roster and have at it.

Kidding aside (well I was sort of kidding)....why did Fredrick not sign in the early signing period and why did that seem to not even create a ripple? I know the media coverage now that Baggott is a paid spokesman (and even the non traditional "media" in Chuck) aren't there to ask any questions...but why does Fredrick seem like the next Boesser? Am I maybe completely missing something in that he was to young or some other factor where he couldn't sign last month?

He has been very brick-headed when it comes to evening the classes. He seems to be doing an interesting job at evening it right now. With the incoming class we would have (roughly) this for "regular players" next year:

Freshmen: 5 (could be more, I'm not fully aware on some players)
Sophomores: 9
Juniors: 10
Seniors: 3

Is there a limit to how many players you can recruit?

UWisco
12-29-2015, 05:38 PM
You forgot the alienating alumni and massively unbalanced classes creating a rollercoaster cycle of feast to famine that he hasn't managed to solve for 4 complete recruiting cycles not helping with recruiting either. Although in fairness to metaphor Mike, he seems to have figured out how to solve the unbalanced classes for next year....just line up 20+ forwards on the roster and have at it.

Kidding aside (well I was sort of kidding)....why did Fredrick not sign in the early signing period and why did that seem to not even create a ripple? I know the media coverage now that Baggott is a paid spokesman (and even the non traditional "media" in Chuck) aren't there to ask any questions...but why does Fredrick seem like the next Boesser? Am I maybe completely missing something in that he was to young or some other factor where he couldn't sign last month?

Age, amount of schooling, or simply not wanting to sign quite yet. Any could be the problem but I am not knowledgable enough to know exactly.

markwojo
12-29-2015, 08:58 PM
He has been very brick-headed when it comes to evening the classes. He seems to be doing an interesting job at evening it right now. With the incoming class we would have (roughly) this for "regular players" next year:

Freshmen: 5 (could be more, I'm not fully aware on some players)
Sophomores: 9
Juniors: 10
Seniors: 3

Is there a limit to how many players you can recruit?

There is a limit of 18 scholarships to spread out amongst the entire roster. Out state high end guys like Kunin & Hughes likely are only here on almost full scholarships (I think the moral of the story that came from Montipetit backing out of his scholarship was that the best guys get around a 90% scholarship). Many other guys are getting partial money, but in the end unless kids want to pay their own way entirely, you are limited by spreading 18 full scholarships across all the players you can convince to come.

gwhinwi
12-30-2015, 11:51 AM
Just did a bunch of cleanup for the recruiting chart today by trying to firm up when some players will be enrolling.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zjXN2fjYURxIheSmq9raNLdLnPawRfO1S63AG6PY0oE/edit#gid=0

UWisco
12-30-2015, 01:08 PM
Just did a bunch of cleanup for the recruiting chart today by trying to firm up when some players will be enrolling.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zjXN2fjYURxIheSmq9raNLdLnPawRfO1S63AG6PY0oE/edit#gid=0

Your previous version was more accurate.