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View Full Version : Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXIII: A Fanbase Gets Smarter When All The Idiots Jump Ship



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WiscTJK
05-07-2015, 02:39 PM
And its Wisko to Eaves defense yet again.

There is no defense of choosing a guy doing coaching seminars, with zero experience recruiting or at D1 level, when you have a former head coach, great assistant and top of the line recruiter available and desiring the job. No defense, ever.

My take is Eaves ego got in the way. Now that is arse is on the line, he will consider him. Oz might not be interested after getting snubbed a few years ago.

Athletic Dept - if your reading this there is still time to make this right and fire Eaves......

KaMiGo
05-07-2015, 04:07 PM
I'm usually in the minority in these things, and I find myself there again. I don't think that it would have been the right move to hire Oz back in 2013.

In an interesting twist, if you look back at the threads from 2013 all anyone had to say about Walsh were positive things:
Hopefully Walsh applies for the permanent coaching position. I can see no reason why I wouldn't want him to continue on. The D seemed to get better with him on the staff
I don't know Walsh personally, but everyone that I've talked to that he has coached absolutely raves about his ability to coach and teach players. Not a bad sign
I would be happy with Walsh
Walsh did a great job with the D last year

Sure it is easy to look at the past with current information and see what happened in the past few years and say that it wasn't the best hire, but there are always going to be opportunities to look back into the past and say "of course that was the wrong decision, how could we have done that?!?" when at the time we say "this is the best option that we have right now"

Oz left once for another program, and there is every indication that he will get a shot at a head position again. Maybe that will be at UW in a few years, maybe not. If a school has an opening and wants to talk to Oz do you honestly think that he is going to pass on another shot?

I feel like we are setting ourselves up to be the Charlie Brown and Oz is Lucy holding the football. Screw us once, that's business and I'm fine with it; screw us twice, that's on us and we shouldn't have put ourselves in that situation.
Could he be a great hire this time around? Absolutely!
Could he be here for a year or two and then bolt again for a HC position? Absolutely!

I can almost see it now...Eaves hires Oz back as the #1 assistant/associate. We turn things around and things get back to a decent place of making the tournament regularly. Eaves position is again secure. Oz sees that he isn't going to be moving ahead of Eaves and his ego pushes him to apply for an HC position somewhere else in 3-5 years. Oz leaves UW for another program and the fans go crazy! How could Eaves bring Oz back when he is a proven flight risk! We are going to have some top-level recruits leave to follow Oz. We are left scrambling to pull new recruits in, forcing unbalanced classes. And of course all of this falls on Eaves.

But then again...Eaves doesn't hire Oz back. The fans go crazy. All of it falls on Eaves.

Kind of a no-win situation in my book.

gwhinwi
05-07-2015, 04:08 PM
Athletic Dept - if your reading this there is still time to make this right and fire Eaves......

I think it's pretty clear that they're not reading this forum. If they had they would have put Eaves in the old village stocks in the Kohl Center commons by now, all while being surrounded by 3 angry villagers with pitchforks shouting, "BURN HIM!!!!"

Gandalf the Red
05-07-2015, 04:16 PM
I think it's pretty clear that they're not reading this forum. If they had they would have put Eaves in the old village stocks in the Kohl Center commons by now, all while being surrounded by 3 angry villagers with pitchforks shouting, "BURN HIM!!!!"

I will bring the vegetables for people to throw; lots of vegetables.

Gurtholfin
05-07-2015, 04:48 PM
I feel like we are setting ourselves up to be the Charlie Brown and Oz is Lucy holding the football. Screw us once, that's business and I'm fine with it; screw us twice, that's on us and we shouldn't have put ourselves in that situation.
Could he be a great hire this time around? Absolutely!
Could he be here for a year or two and then bolt again for a HC position? Absolutely!




I don't think that Oz taking a career advancing position elsewhere was him "screwing" us.

Anyone we hire right now could take another position elsewhere in a year or two. It's the nature of the business.

Gurtholfin
05-07-2015, 04:48 PM
I will bring the feces for people to throw; lots of feces.


fyp

KaMiGo
05-07-2015, 05:09 PM
I don't think that Oz taking a career advancing position elsewhere was him "screwing" us.

Anyone we hire right now could take another position elsewhere in a year or two. It's the nature of the business.

So maybe the first time can be written off as "career advancement", but what would you call it when it happens the second time?

And sure, the nature of the business is that assistants develop and move on to new and better positions. But when you have someone who has already done that, why would you want to bring him back and let him do it again?

He's already shown that he will leave UW for another school, you don't think that a few good years would solidify his spot the radar for any open spots?

WiscTJK
05-07-2015, 05:43 PM
So maybe the first time can be written off as "career advancement", but what would you call it when it happens the second time?

And sure, the nature of the business is that assistants develop and move on to new and better positions. But when you have someone who has already done that, why would you want to bring him back and let him do it again?

He's already shown that he will leave UW for another school, you don't think that a few good years would solidify his spot the radar for any open spots?

So you don't want them to hire one of the best possible options? Sure he might leave at some point. But any of the great top assistants are going to be flight risks. The AD put Eaves and the hockey program in this situation by not cleaning house. Eaves has to get top guys and they very well might leave after 3 or 4 years.

If we don't hire top end guys, we end up 2 more inexperienced guys and we can be 59 of 59 teams in the nation instead of 55.

WiscTJK
05-07-2015, 05:45 PM
I'm usually in the minority in these things, and I find myself there again. I don't think that it would have been the right move to hire Oz back in 2013.

In an interesting twist, if you look back at the threads from 2013 all anyone had to say about Walsh were positive things:
Hopefully Walsh applies for the permanent coaching position. I can see no reason why I wouldn't want him to continue on. The D seemed to get better with him on the staff
I don't know Walsh personally, but everyone that I've talked to that he has coached absolutely raves about his ability to coach and teach players. Not a bad sign
I would be happy with Walsh
Walsh did a great job with the D last year



I was not a fan of the hiring of either Shuchuk or Walsh, based solely on the experience factor, and said so back then.

Gurtholfin
05-07-2015, 06:13 PM
So maybe the first time can be written off as "career advancement", but what would you call it when it happens the second time?

And sure, the nature of the business is that assistants develop and move on to new and better positions. But when you have someone who has already done that, why would you want to bring him back and let him do it again?

He's already shown that he will leave UW for another school, you don't think that a few good years would solidify his spot the radar for any open spots?


If you don't want him hired for the flight possibility reason, fine by me - although I disagree.

Just saying that anytime an assistant - Oz or anyone else - leaves for a better opportunity, I can't hold it against them and wouldn't categorize it as him screwing us.

IndianaBadger1995
05-07-2015, 06:37 PM
Per Baggot "Badgers men's hockey: Mike Eaves to speak to Mark Osiecki about open assistant job"

Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/college/hockey/badgers-men-s-hockey-mike-eaves-to-speak-to-mark/article_3afbb72d-7b88-5401-9f3d-4fd9a44e5805.html#ixzz3ZPcvkYNU

"It remains to be seen if those amenities are enough to sway Osiecki, who sought to return to the staff in 2013 only to see Eaves hire Walsh."

Eaves hired Walsh over bringing Osiecki back??:eek:

I just laughed and face palmed. Oh boy, this is so bad.

solovsfett
05-07-2015, 07:17 PM
For the person who says this is a "no win" situation. Uhm...i disagree. Eaves' situation is this: Win. Do that and you're fine regardless of who the assistants are and if they decide to leave for career advancement then hire the right person to replace the assistant or assistants, put some serious thought into it like Jerry York would for eff's sake. It's really not that effing difficult. Or not as difficult as the Eaves apologists seem to indicate.

Osiecki proves that. They had a chance to re-hire and passed. Also, didn't they have a chance to bring in Don Granato early on? I seem to recall his name being floated on these boards when Troy Ward left a vacancy?

Anyway, I wish I new the CEO of Tesla, if they could build a car that could run on my rage at the UW Athletic Department and Mike Eaves the effing thing could go 500,000 w/out having to fill up!

NEWI Badger Fan
05-07-2015, 11:05 PM
How about this idea: Fire Alvarez and Eaves. What a Catastrophe . This is just awful.

Wisko McBadgerton
05-08-2015, 11:23 AM
When asked about Oz after Osiecki was fired, Eaves told Baggot that he (Eaves) felt Oz would seek another head coaching opportunity. Oz says now he was interested in coming back then. Whatever the case, Oz never applied for the job, which suggests to me he wasn't interested in Walsh's job, but would logically be interested as maybe an associate HC. For all anyone knows Eaves spoke to the AD about budget for hiring Oz as an associate and they said no. Or they collectively didn't want to go through the hiring procedure the State requires of posting a new position and the delay. (if that's a thing?) Or Eaves just didn't want to get into another situation like he had with Troy Ward who was constantly job hunting. (Can you really blame Eaves for that? He had just specifically said he believed Oz wanted a HC job.) As Kamigo points out, no one here thought anything different at the time. Folks can characterize it as Walsh over Oz all they want today, and how stupid Eaves was, but if Walsh and Oz aren't applying for the same job, then how is it a decision between them? Even the most pessimistic posters here approved of the job Walsh had done and didn't have a problem with his hiring on in 2013.

Hind sight is 20/20. In spring 2013 why would they even want to shake things up? They had just been on an amazing stretch run. A frequent poster here noted the team had "more heart than any team since 2006". They were loaded coming back. They had Dvorak and Besse coming in. Shuey had just signed Malone and grabbed Soleway and was about to sign Boesser (May '13, right after Walsh was hired). Everything was looking very rosy. So I don't buy the Monday morning quarterbacking at all.

Here are a few guys that did actually apply for the job 2 years ago and their current positions:

Luke Strand- GM and HC Madison Capitols

Matt Loen- UWEC HC

Maco Balkovec - Director and HC, Burnaby Winter Club

Ty Eigner- Asst. Bowling Green

Dan Boesser- HC Chicago Steel

Chris Hartsburg- HC Lincoln Stars

Also,

Shane Connelly- Cedar Rapids Rough Riders asst.

And the perfect Butters replacement: Dave "Bam Bam" Langevin - Real Estate Appraiser! (ok...and US Hockey HoF'er.)

Anybody think any of these guys are applying and/or are viable now?

KaMiGo
05-08-2015, 11:26 AM
I think it's pretty clear that they're not reading this forum. If they had they would have put Eaves in the old village stocks in the Kohl Center commons by now, all while being surrounded by 3 angry villagers with pitchforks shouting, "BURN HIM!!!!"

Being aware of the feelings of the fan base and doing what the fan base wants are two completely different things.

I would feel fairly confident that someone in the Athletic Department is aware of the general mood of the fans. Maybe they read this specific message board, maybe they hang out at B5Q, maybe they read the comments that are posted to Baggot's articles in the WSJ.

But you can't expect that the Athletic Department will make their judgments based on the opinions of a few vocal fans. Maybe I am in the minority and the voices of WickTJK, solovsfett, EODS, Gurtholfin et al represent the majority of fans; or maybe the above mentioned are what you will find with any group of fans; there will be some that take a position and become very vocal about it...just because they are making the most noise doesn't mean that they speak for the majority.

And sure, you can come back to me citing decreased ticket sales, increased no-shows, decreased TV ratings...and those are all valid points that there is something wrong with the program, but I don't know that you can say that those factors point to everyone wanting Eaves gone.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
05-08-2015, 01:06 PM
Hind sight is 20/20. In spring 2013 why would they even want to shake things up? They had just been on an amazing stretch run. A frequent poster here noted the team had "more heart than any team since 2006". They were loaded coming back. They had Dvorak and Besse coming in. Shuey had just signed Malone and grabbed Soleway and was about to sign Boesser (May '13, right after Walsh was hired). Everything was looking very rosy. So I don't buy the Monday morning quarterbacking at all.All fair points, although that "more heart than any team since 2006" comment was on the heels of a then-unprecedented terrible start to the year IIRC.

Still, for how things have turned out: 2 of those 5 recruits you mentioned (probably the best ones) aren't even going to set foot here. And we've seen the results of what the rest of our recent recruiting classes have brought us thus far.


Here are a few guys that did actually apply for the job 2 years ago and their current positions:

Luke Strand- GM and HC Madison Capitols

Matt Loen- UWEC HC

Maco Balkovec - Director and HC, Burnaby Winter Club

Ty Eigner- Asst. Bowling Green

Dan Boesser- HC Chicago Steel

Chris Hartsburg- HC Lincoln Stars

Also,

Shane Connelly- Cedar Rapids Rough Riders asst.

And the perfect Butters replacement: Dave "Bam Bam" Langevin - Real Estate Appraiser! (ok...and US Hockey HoF'er.)

Anybody think any of these guys are applying and/or are viable now?Boeser would be a fun, cheeky hire at this point.

I'd say you limit your search to current D-I assistants or USHL HCs.

Timothy A
05-08-2015, 01:55 PM
Here are a few guys that did actually apply for the job 2 years ago and their current positions:

Luke Strand- GM and HC Madison Capitols

Matt Loen- UWEC HC

Maco Balkovec - Director and HC, Burnaby Winter Club

Ty Eigner- Asst. Bowling Green

Dan Boesser- HC Chicago Steel

Chris Hartsburg- HC Lincoln Stars

Also,

Shane Connelly- Cedar Rapids Rough Riders asst.

And the perfect Butters replacement: Dave "Bam Bam" Langevin - Real Estate Appraiser! (ok...and US Hockey HoF'er.)

Anybody think any of these guys are applying and/or are viable now?

Just Strand and Loen.

XYZ
05-08-2015, 01:59 PM
But you can't expect that the Athletic Department will make their judgments based on the opinions of a few vocal fans. Maybe I am in the minority and the voices of WickTJK, solovsfett, EODS, Gurtholfin et al represent the majority of fans; or maybe the above mentioned are what you will find with any group of fans; there will be some that take a position and become very vocal about it...just because they are making the most noise doesn't mean that they speak for the majority.

Perhaps not, but they're certainly more knowledgeable than the average fan that is part of this subjectively determined "majority," possibly moreso than sectors of the athletic administration itself. The department should make its judgements based on what's best for the program, and just because those believing that continuing with Eaves is not what's best for the program may be the your minority it doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong. Same as the administration isn't necessarily right for doing whatever the consensus opinion of your majority is.

Just do what's best for the program as winning (almost always) cures all, and believing Eaves needs to go for the program to attain the consistent success it should be capable of is at least as credible as any of the excuses and rationalizations that have been posted over the past six months -- and I'd suggest far more credible than this supposed majority opinion. Which is what, by the way?

Wisko McBadgerton
05-08-2015, 03:48 PM
All fair points, although that "more heart than any team since 2006" comment was on the heels of a then-unprecedented terrible start to the year IIRC.

Still, for how things have turned out: 2 of those 5 recruits you mentioned (probably the best ones) aren't even going to set foot here. And we've seen the results of what the rest of our recent recruiting classes have brought us thus far.

Boeser would be a fun, cheeky hire at this point.

I'd say you limit your search to current D-I assistants or USHL HCs.

Well, I could have quoted Gurt's "I'm actually optimistic" post from then, but I just assume he was hitting the rum pretty heavy when he wrote that. (I could tell because it was all spelled correctly.)

Agree on how things turned out. I assume you'd include certain current AHL assistants in the mix. Maybe Zengerle's Griffin's can send home Oz's Ice Hogs by the end of next week so Eaves can talk to Oz.

Chuck Schwartz
05-10-2015, 02:35 PM
I've heard from multiple people Oz already said no, fwiw.