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bomberhockey
06-05-2015, 04:34 PM
That's right, no texting back then. But the point is the same. Sloppy job.
Define Sloppy?

Chuck Murray
06-05-2015, 04:50 PM
Well, assuming reports are correct, it is either Stewart or Souza. So what's the consensus? Is this a coach off over the next few years, with the winner getting the coveted recommendation from the coach? While both of these guys are UNH alums, what I really like is that both of them have had exposure to other ways of coaching and recruiting. Both played professionally and both have assisted at more than one school besides UNH. Hopefully that brings a fresher approach that what, unfortunately, we have seen over the past few years. Rooting for both of them because, if they do well, UNH does also.

I'd like to think Coach Umile had/has the foresight and good sense to level with both of these guys (Stewart, and presumably Souza) and tell them they have a great opportunity BUT there can be no guarantees regarding either being a successor. These guys are all going to have to cooperate, because if they don't (1) the program at their alma mater will suffer from it, and (2) that will show neither of them is made of the right stuff to step into the big job. IF promises have been made - and I doubt very much any have been - I frankly don't see any reason or justification for one. Neither has been a head coach anywhere before, so no one has "stepped down" (or arguably even taken a lateral step) to accept their UNH position.

As other posters have speculated since ... much will depend upon where the program is when Coach Umile decides to step aside. I see guesses as to 2-3 years, and *maybe* that proves to be accurate. My guess is that if the next couple of years go fairly well, and there is demonstrable progress up the competitive ladder, Coach Umile isn't going to be in a hurry to leave. As long as he can see the possibility of another trip to the Frozen Four, and another shot at the big trophy, I have no doubt Coach Umile will coach into his 70's.

But if they continue to tread water - and much of that likely will depend on how guys like Stewart and Souza perform in their recruiting duties, AND the administrative support they get (or not) beyond Umile - then even our own "Captain Ahab" is not going to continue to pour his time and energy into this program. So today's news about Borek's departure - and presumably with the arrival of Souza soon to follow - is a really huge development for UNH, as it amounts to what is probably the last throw of the dice for Coach Umile.

Here's to hoping he gets this right.

p.s. to nick - the umaine asterisk applies to '93* - not '99. please do try to keep up. :D

Greg A
06-05-2015, 08:12 PM
Define Sloppy?

Not knowing the rules or, worse, ignoring them.

Greg A
06-05-2015, 08:24 PM
I gave this news some thought while sweating through a workout at the gym today. The big question that no one has asked or answered is why Borek would leave. To me the easy answer is money. Not sure what he was making at UNH ($150,000?) but I would guess that whatever it is Providence pays more. Remember that they have basketball money to play with and, next to the hoops, hockey is the only other recognizable sport at PC. So assuming it is all about the money, why did Leaman latch on to Borek as the guy? I know this college coaching fraternity is a pretty tight knit group. And at this time of the year, how many viable candidates are there for Leaman to choose from? My guess is that he had a short list, called a few folks, some rejected him outright and some hemmed and hawed, including Borek. Mulled it over, figured the chance to recruit for a team that just won it all, the money's better, still in New England, not a bad deal, so go for it. And not that this was the deal breaker either way, but one of Nate Leaman's friends is Walt Borisenok (father of Mike) who just ponied up some money for the new scoreboard. I would imagine that Walt gave the seal of approval on the guy who recruited his son to play at UNH. A guess, but an educated one.

NCAA watcher
06-05-2015, 08:51 PM
If you knew your job would end in 2 years, you'd look for a good landing spot if it came along. He had been waiting for a top spot but I think the U Conn/ UMass ones were the last real opportunity. When Steve Miller retired it was a good chance to put together a new 10 year gig.
The real question is why Souza would leave a building potential longer term track U Conn job (and Chuck, it was a lateral move, he was just promoted to Associate coach). Perhaps he thinks he can get his foot in the door in the next 2 years to be considered when the top spot opens up.

The Zlax45
06-05-2015, 10:56 PM
Any speculation why that is? Seems that assistants come and go in alot of places, well, not UNH in recent years but in others.

This is PC's third top assistant in Leaman's tenure and third in the last three years.

Greg A
06-06-2015, 08:09 AM
If you knew your job would end in 2 years, you'd look for a good landing spot if it came along. He had been waiting for a top spot but I think the U Conn/ UMass ones were the last real opportunity. When Steve Miller retired it was a good chance to put together a new 10 year gig.
The real question is why Souza would leave a building potential longer term track U Conn job (and Chuck, it was a lateral move, he was just promoted to Associate coach). Perhaps he thinks he can get his foot in the door in the next 2 years to be considered when the top spot opens up.

On Borek, I had always heard after he came to UNH that he had no interest in ever being a head coach again. That his experience at Lake State had soured him on the idea. You know, not every assistant aspires to the head job. Off the top of my head I can think of Dave Lassonde who was offered head jobs more than once and Grant Standbrook who obviously had the chops to be the head coach as well. Maybe Borek changed his mind but that alone wouldn't motivate him to leave UNH I think. On the second point, knowing Souza a bit from his playing days at UNH, the chance to coach at his alma mater and potentially have a chance to be head coach there had to have a strong pull for him.

Hokydad
06-06-2015, 08:21 AM
And UConn is a pretty avg program. Cavanaugh not going anywhere, about 250 people at home game, at best 4th or 5th sport there

HockeyRef
06-06-2015, 09:02 AM
Ok so now that the Borek decision is finalized (PC is getting one hell of a coach there) what's next for the 'Cats? Souza...is this rumor or a solid bet? Don't think UNH has had the news up yet so this could take awhile. Assuming they will have to post the job? Is it October yet? And where is our schedule?!? Happy Saturday hockey fans!!

NCAA watcher
06-06-2015, 09:48 AM
Souza has interesting ties to the Minnesota market, getting US National Tryout 99 defenseman Connor Mayer and Will Garin. A good complement to Stewart's BCHL connections.

They face a big hole in talent, combined with a large pool of 3rd liner commitments. The loss of Ryczek took away one of the two blue chippers in the pipeline (Farabee is the other).

Souza and Stewart also face, as I mentioned, a huge difficulty in what you sell. They have a lame duck Head Coach who will not be around when the recruited players arrive. Indeed, with that uncertainty, it will be hard for Stewart and Souza to even assure the player that they will be around. As we see with Ryczek, even when players like UNH as a concept*, a lot of players commit based on a bond with an assistant, rather than the HC. Therefore, any commitment the next few years will all be subject to the players decommiting once the lame duck situation resolves itself. I don't expect to see too many high end commits for players who have options, because like Ryczek, the uncertainty of whether they will recognize anyone when they show up in 2 years is just too much to expect from a 16 year old with options. Treading water and hopefully keep some semblance of a core of players without burdening the new coach with a glut of midlin players, and leaving lots of "cap space" so the new coach can hit the ground and allow the program to take off again.

*

Mike Lowry ("C-H-C"): Congratulations on your commitment to play for the University of New Hampshire. What are the main reasons you chose UNH?
Jake Ryczek: Thank you. I’m very excited and so is my family. I chose UNH because the first time I was on campus it just felt right. UNH has a great coaching staff, I felt my game fit their hockey style and UNH is a great academic school for me.

Mike Lowry: What other college programs were you considering?
Jake Ryczek: I’ve visited some Hockey East Schools and some ECAC Schools, but I always wanted to play Hockey East and UNH was my number 1.

DLG
06-06-2015, 10:38 AM
And UConn is a pretty avg program. Cavanaugh not going anywhere, about 250 people at home game, at best 4th or 5th sport there

You obviously haven't checked the attendance at hockey east games played in Hartford
Over 5,000 average among tops in league
Can't argue 4th most important sport

Chuck Murray
06-06-2015, 11:00 AM
Random thoughts on some of the posts that have arrived overnight ...

* Why would Coach Borek leave UNH to go to PC - money or long-term job security? I'm closer to 'Watcher's take on this than Greg's. Not that I necessarily agree that Coach Umile is a virtual "lame duck" with a 2 year future coaching lifespan ... but regardless of how long he's going to remain in charge in Durham, it's a safe bet that unless Coach Leaman harbors ambitions to coach at the next level, winning the D-1 title all but assures him a long stay at Providence - longer than Coach Umile will be in his current post. So yeah, if Coach Borek is looking at his life from the "next 10 year plan" standpoint, then taking the PC offer makes sense. Recruiting for a national championship program is a nice little bonus on top of that. And maybe Leaman has tired of going through his assistants like Kleenex already. :D

* Borek may indeed have put his aspirations for a head coaching job on the shelf for the better part of the decade, but that doesn't mean that's a permanent decision. Things change, and for every guy who takes a backwards step at some point of their career to readjust and re-assess, and finds that the different position is more suitable to them ... there's someone else who puts their ambition on hold for a bit, but just never gets the hunger for running the ship out of their blood. Professionally speaking, my career has followed the former arc, and honestly it's been the best long-term decision for my professional career. In other outside activities, I've been fortunate to be the guy who gets to "steer the ship", so that has allowed me to fulfill whatever *needs* I may have sidelined in other areas of my life. But that doesn't mean someone in Borek's position doesn't decide to "kick the tires" on a head coaching job from time to time (see UMass).

* Assuming Souza is in line to take Borek's UNH vacancy ... that's only a lateral move on paper. Same job title, sure, but he would be moving to his alma mater (as someone else pointed out), and it's still a program that's way more established and reputable at this level than the program he would be departing. The same scenario held for Coach Stewart last season.

* I still think those who are assuming Coach Umile only has a 2-3 year shelf life remaining right now are being premature. If things are trending positive in these next two seasons - and to recap, I'll say for simplicity sake that the last three seasons have been a time where we'll look back and classify it as "treading water" at the low point of Umile's tenure - I'm positive the "lifetime contract" will see him coach into his 70's. He wouldn't be the first, and I doubt he'd be the last. Now if despite some of the changes we've seen over the last couple of seasons, the program continues to languish at its present level ... yeah, I think that would probably convince everyone (Umile included) that his time is up, and it's time for a change.

* For what it's worth ... with the projected UNH non-conference schedule looking a little bit "soft" this coming season, when we might otherwise be concerned about a slight dip had last year's tough schedule carried forward into this season ... things would seem to be set up for this year's UNH team to improve its record, make a serious run at a first round "bye" and home ice in the quarters AND maybe snag that recently-elusive NCAA bid without having to make a deep run in the HE Tourney. Throw in the conventional wisdom that the 2016/2017 team will see a peak in UNH's current rebuild ... hmmm, who is the guy at UNH in charge of arranging non-conference foes??

* If (and I say when) Coach Umile turns things around these next two seasons, and then coaches into his 70's, I will be the first on my block to say that Coach Umile will outlast BS35+2+whatever in their respective UNH positions. :) :)

cavbim
06-06-2015, 12:08 PM
Random thoughts on some of the posts that have arrived overnight ...

* Why would Coach Borek leave UNH to go to PC - money or long-term job security? I'm closer to 'Watcher's take on this than Greg's. Not that I necessarily agree that Coach Umile is a virtual "lame duck" with a 2 year future coaching lifespan ... but regardless of how long he's going to remain in charge in Durham, it's a safe bet that unless Coach Leaman harbors ambitions to coach at the next level, winning the D-1 title all but assures him a long stay at Providence - longer than Coach Umile will be in his current post. So yeah, if Coach Borek is looking at his life from the "next 10 year plan" standpoint, then taking the PC offer makes sense. Recruiting for a national championship program is a nice little bonus on top of that. And maybe Leaman has tired of going through his assistants like Kleenex already. :D

)

To your last point I was thinking along the same line as Borek would give him one assistant long term. He 2 previous "veteran" assistants were westerners. Russell still harbored head coaching aspirations which in part why is why he left to take the HC in the ECHL. Miller tried to transplant 2500 miles after 20+ years and in the end family considerations won out. He certainly had stability at Union, 6 years of Bennett as top assistant, and 4 years of Barr as his other assistant. Benny then stuck another 3 years with him at PC. He left to assist his high school mentor in a position that might lead to the HC position (which as evidenced by 1 turnover this are hard to come by). Both Mayotte and Dir of Ops Murphy are up and comers and if long term at PC there is no HC position for awhile soon enough they have to move on. Borek could be that constant a well rooted New Englander, the equal to Leaman's Union situation with Bennett.

Anyway I was wondering how much uprooting Borek has to do. His UNH bio does not list a family like they have listed for Umile. Is he single and in moving he answers to no one but himself?

HockeyRef
06-06-2015, 12:18 PM
To your last point I was thinking along the same line as Borek would give him one assistant long term. He 2 previous "veteran" assistants were westerners. Russell still harbored head coaching aspirations which in part why is why he left to take the HC in the ECHL. Miller tried to transplant 2500 miles after 20+ years and in the end family considerations won out. He certainly had stability at Union, 6 years of Bennett as top assistant, and 4 years of Barr as his other assistant. Benny then stuck another 3 years with him at PC. He left to assist his high school mentor in a position that might lead to the HC position (which as evidenced by 1 turnover this are hard to come by). Both Mayotte and Dir of Ops Murphy are up and comers and if long term at PC there is no HC position for awhile soon enough they have to move on. Borek could be that constant a well rooted New Englander, the equal to Leaman's Union situation with Bennett.

Anyway I was wondering how much uprooting Borek has to do. His UNH bio does not list a family like they have listed for Umile. Is he single and in moving he answers to no one but himself?

Hi Cav thanks for dropping by! Wanted to mention your points on the PC thread regarding McCloskey having more to choose from than Borek made a lot of sense to me. The competition for the same bunch of players must be wild and players have far more options now than back in McCloskeys day.

To imply that Scott Borek doesn't get the job done at least to me is not exactly comparing apples to oranges. Just not sure it's a fair comparison and yes I realize my limited experience as a fan.

Your program has inherited an excellent coach and recruiter who knows the sport and is well respected. Looking forward already to our battles with the Friars! See you for two in Providence next winta 😉 (That's NH speak for winter)

JB
06-06-2015, 01:57 PM
I don't see Borek as a big loss for UNH. The record tells you what you are and the direction of UNH since his arrival has been the wrong one. For much of that time Borek and aging staff were the only changes. I don't solely blame Borek my guess is it was a combination.

When you are going the wrong direction changes need to be made. I expect Borek's departure is a fortuitous opportunity for UNH to make changes. I don't believe Umile would force an assistant out.

HockeyRef
06-06-2015, 02:21 PM
I don't see Borek as a big loss for UNH. The record tells you what you are and the direction of UNH since his arrival has been the wrong one. For much of that time Borek and aging staff were the only changes. I don't solely blame Borek my guess is it was a combination.

When you are going the wrong direction changes need to be made. I expect Borek's departure is a fortuitous opportunity for UNH to make changes. I don't believe Umile would force an assistant out.

Obviously JB and others here who have a long track record following the team have made valid points with stats, won/loss records, and the like. What I'd like to know is why don't the teams who have mega amounts of draft picks, etc. not win NC's year after year after year. How do teams like Union, and most recently, PC do it? (Guess the Nate Leaman thing is bigger than we thought...or most of us thought ;) ) Right place, right time, right kids? Something other than the raw talent recruited has to be factored in with coaching paramount in that mix along with support of the school etc. While I know this opinion isn't held by many surely we can consider ourselves on the right track?

But as I said, it's going to be very exciting to see what UNH's next move is with this new incoming coach. Not gonna happen over night. Would like to see/think/believe we are on an upwards path, but not sure next season will be the one but who knows??

Dig in 'Cats...why not you, and why not now!

JB
06-06-2015, 03:25 PM
A few problems plague UNH in my opinion.

First is history, had success didn't get IT done and now (hopefully) bottomed. Hard to sell the up swing when you are at a bottom without a big change.

Second vision, I am not sure Umile knows what that winning formula is for right now. Maybe he never knew and the success was McCoskey's vision. The landscape has changed at all levels of hockey so what a winning team looks like changed.

Third is players to fit the vision. You are not necessarily looking for the best but the right players. Borek may have recruited better future NHL talent than McCloskey but McCloskey clearly recruited better college players. You need the players to win at this level. Not necessarily to develop the ones for the next.

Line up McCloskey's top 10 against Borek's top 10. You get one list for college players. You would pick McCoskey's without needing to think about it.

Scary thing is the drop off at the bottom of the roster with the role players is probably bigger than the drop at the top.

Fourth age, none of us are getting younger. The coaching staff however needs to relate to young players. If Souza is coming in the age of the staff will have gone down significantly - finally...

Snively65
06-06-2015, 03:27 PM
I think that there has been an element of luck in Ylae, Union, and PC winning their NCs, that along with having a hot goaltender at the right time of the season. Ask BU fans about the importance of goaltending. But, if your team cannot make the NCAAs, obviously a NC is out of reach. UNH trajectory since 2003 has been abysmal. Remains to be seen if Borek's next two recruiting classes turn things around. Blue chippers de-committing not helpful.

Hokydad
06-06-2015, 04:52 PM
How was Union even a little bit lucky. They spanked BC and Minnesota, out skated both in frozen four, which doesn't happen often. Union goalie was solid, nothing spectacular. By far best team in tournament
PC spanked Denver and Miami in regionals, spanked UNO in semis. In fairness goalie played great but 2 of his goals he would love to have back. They outplayed BU in third when it counted.
Yale on the other hand was fortunate. List to Q in ECAC 5-1 and than beats in NC gm. Congrats but fortunate

UNHJourney34
06-06-2015, 04:53 PM
[QUOTE=HockeyRef;6168163]Obviously JB and others here who have a long track record following the team have made valid points with stats, won/loss records, and the like. What I'd like to know is why don't the teams who have mega amounts of draft picks, etc. not win NC's year after year after year. How do teams like Union, and most recently, PC do it?

PC won because of the huge mismatch in goaltending between Gillies and O'Connor and the BU team had an off night (Like they did in the game at the whitt). Where they couldn't compensate for a bad goaltending performance. The game was within reach for either team until O'Connor's flub, after that BU just had no life. They were flustered and couldn't even get the puck out of their own zone. Coach Quinn realized this and called a timeout to try and settle the team down and PC scored right off that faceoff. Which essentially sealed the game.

As for Union it has been seen in the past that the NHL drafts for size over skill a lot of the time. And that doesn't always transition well to the college game. In terms of the actual game itself I think the big difference was the age. I remember watching the game and hearing the announcers talk about how minnesota only had 1 player over the age of 22 and Union had something like 13. Union was able to get a solid recruitment class of good college players that the NHL wasn't interested in, and by their senior year they had become the top players in the country. And then there was Shayne Gostisbehere who broke out to become arguably the best player in the country that season and in that championship game had 3 points and was a plus 7!!!

The thing that made UNH so good during the late 90's to mid 00 stretch was that the top players (Krog, Haydar, Saviano, Collins, Gare, Mikflikier, Hemingway, etc...) Were not NHL players, they were great College hockey players who fit the college style well and were properly recruited. No one here will tell me that the would prefer to have JVR (Who was the #2 overall NHL draft pick and now a US olympian) during his time at UNH over those other guys. Simply because as soon as JVR came in you knew he was going to be a 1 or 2 year player and he did too. It seemed like he didn't even try sometimes when he was on the ice. Where a talented group of seniors who have spent years at a school, mostly undrafted and not knowing that they have a legitimate shot at moving on the the NHL may give it their all and try just a bit harder than their opposition. And probably also are a couple years older, their bodies are more developed and they are more experience.