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Snively65
04-29-2015, 04:32 PM
You are killing me with the SOG nonsense. I know it is done tongue in cheek for Chuck but IMO it has gone on too long now.

Not entirely tongue in cheek, as two of the three "official stars" of that game were the two UNH 9 SOG guys, rather than Thrush, who Mike ranked as first star, for which I would not disagree.

Good observations by Nick, which we really need to see repeated by multiple seniors this coming season. Austin Block really is a great example of the trajectory that we seek for goals scored:

'09-10, 25 games, 1 G + 2 A = 3 Pts
'10-11, 36, 4+5=9
'11-12, 36, 5+10=15
'12-13, 39, 15+8=23

e.cat
04-29-2015, 05:07 PM
You are killing me with the SOG nonsense. I know it is done tongue in cheek for Chuck but IMO it has gone on too long now.

Couldn't agree more JB!!


Ok, quiz time is up. The third official star of the 5-2 win over DU in the regionals was none other than Austin Block, he of coming from nowhere during senior year fame. Austin and John Henrion each notched nine SOG in that game, as noted by Mike in his write up. Also, UNH outshot DU 41-33, back in the day when SOG mattered, right e.cat?

SOG doesn't matter?? Who knew??;)

BTW, I like the MacDonald pick. SOG might be irrelevant but ya know what? sometimes goals are irrelevant when it comes to choosing a Captain. Other factors arguably are more important ie. leadership and work ethic. The players know him better than we do and I respect that. Carry on!!

Chuck Murray
04-29-2015, 05:46 PM
You are killing me with the SOG nonsense. I know it is done tongue in cheek for Chuck but IMO it has gone on too long now.

Yup. :)

Chuck Murray
04-29-2015, 06:15 PM
BTW, I like the MacDonald pick. SOG might be irrelevant but ya know what? sometimes goals are irrelevant when it comes to choosing a Captain. Other factors arguably are more important ie. leadership and work ethic. The players know him better than we do and I respect that. Carry on!!

It's awfully hard to build up a leadership reservoir when you've spent 50% of your career as a scratch (healthy or otherwise), and then spend the rest of the time skating 10 minutes or less on the 4th line. Not to mention you're not getting selected to play in the post-season games, which to me is huge.

I'm sure he's a great kid with an interesting *story* ... but generally you need more than that to earn captaincy at a high profile D-1 program. Besides the gruesome broken leg, can anyone really recall a special stand-out moment in his career to date? I can't.

A few years ago, a kid named Greg Manz was the first UNH player to earn Phi Beta Kappa. 4th line kid, 32 games as a junior ... no talk about GPA or captaincy, then about a half-dozen games as a senior.

Just to be clear, my intent is not to criticize or belittle MacDonald here. I'm criticizing those responsible for his selection - be it the players and/or Coach Umile. Likely both.

I have to assume MacDonald emerged as first choice of the players, and Coach Umile ultimately gave their decision his blessing and support.

IF however this was Coach Umile's idea initially - and I want to believe it wasn't - then I have to question whether he is seriously losing his marbles.

Ask yourself this question ... IF the kid was such a superior leader and so highly respected within the program ... then how did he only play more games among fellow forwards than Collin Bourque and Mike McNicholas?? :confused: I mean, Jamie Hill played more games than MacDonald. High motor kids with leadership intangibles are shoe-ins for regular 3rd/4th line duty. Something still just doesn't add up.

C-H-C
04-29-2015, 07:29 PM
Would like to see an end to dumping on this young man, a start to respecting the decision of the players and coaches, and a step toward moving on.

Snively65
04-29-2015, 08:15 PM
In thinking about captaincy, I decided to follow up on Patrick Foley, as his name has come up in this thread, and in other threads about his potential as a future head coach in Div 1. Speaking of which, I have not been able to find out why he left NU in August 2014 after three years as assistant coach there, and four years as assistant coach at Harvard before that, and two years coaching with the national team before that. But, back to UNH, as Foley was voted captain for his last three years, '01-02, '02-03, and '03-04, which was only the second time that had happened at UNH (who was the other?). As we know, two of those teams went to the FF, and UNH was deep on offense. I had forgotten that Foley was drafted by the Penquins in 2000, as his UNH totals were:
'99-00, 30 games, 3 G + 7 A = 10 points
'01-02, 35, 8+4=12
'02-03, 39, 8+10=18
'03-04, 39, 4+3+7
I bring all of this stuff up because I seem to recall that Foley played mostly on the third and fourth lines, but as captain spent a lot of extra "ice time" with the refs during breaks in play. I am not trying to make comparisons here, but I see no reason that the captain needs to be one of the top scorers.

Here are three links, the first about Foley as assistant coach at NU, the second about Umile suspending eight players for the Punch Imlach Showcase games against Canisius and Niagara in October 2003, which Foley also missed because of a concussion, and the third a five-year nostalgia anniversary tour, just to put things in perspective.

http://gonu.com/coaches.aspx?rc=244

http://m.seacoastonline.com/article/20031024/SPORTS/310249891

http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?90133-An-Open-Letter-to-Coach-Umile

FiveHole12
04-29-2015, 08:48 PM
I bring all of this stuff up because I seem to recall that Foley played mostly on the third and fourth lines, but as captain spent a lot of extra "ice time" with the refs during breaks in play. I am not trying to make comparisons here, but I see no reason that the captain needs to be one of the top scorers.
Exactly.

The 2009-2010 Boston College National Championship team had two 50 point scorers, one 45, two 30’s and six 20+ point scorers. How many points did the captain of that NC team have?

That team had players named Kreider, Hayes, Whitney (2), Gibbons, Smith, Mullane, Dumoulin, Cross, Carey and Muse. Many of them NHL’ers today.

Without looking it up, I’ll bet no one here even knew this kid existed.

His name: Matt Price, Milton, Ontario. 5 G, 11 A, 16 pts as a senior captain.
46 career points at BC. Career 3rd-4th liner… his line’s roll was usually as a shut down defensive line against the opposition’s better/best line.

Relax folks. You’re reading way too much into this.
Do I have t write another ‘Coach for a Day’ post? ;) :p

UNH1932
04-29-2015, 08:50 PM
Would like to see an end to dumping on this young man, a start to respecting the decision of the players and coaches, and a step toward moving on.

I agree wholeheartedly with CHC. Other players and recruits read this thread and you wonder why top end players seem harder to recruit as time goes by. I am sure the parents of "insignificant" players read the forum as well and they are all part of the larger hockey community. Colin MacDonald was slated for the first line last fall and his injury and complications related to surgery slowed his progress. He spent most of the hockey season building up the leg muscles and receiving physical therapy. He played when the coaches felt he was the best fit against certain opponents. He certainly had lost a step from his previous speed and that probably lead to less playing time this year. I believe he has not been right since the injury and the coaches must have felt he turned the corner and will be an integral part of the team this coming year.

If you want to bash the coaches and the AD, please have at it. Please stop belittling our players. I hope the senior class has a great year. Our sophomore and junior classes should be very good this year and I am excited about the upcoming year. I believe most of us think the team played their hearts out for the last six weeks of the season and that we will be very competitive this coming season.

Our schedule posted on the flagdudes string could be better but it seems that this is our schedule for the year and we need to make the most of it. I do hope that 2016-2017 has us playing more of the perennial powerhouses out of conference. Let us hope for a Jumbotron and a full arena in the 2015-2016 season. I am certainly ready to see UNH back in the NCAA tournament every year.

HockeyRef
04-29-2015, 09:08 PM
I agree wholeheartedly with CHC. Other players and recruits read this thread and you wonder why top end players seem harder to recruit as time goes by. I am sure the parents of "insignificant" players read the forum as well and they are all part of the larger hockey community. Colin MacDonald was slated for the first line last fall and his injury and complications related to surgery slowed his progress. He spent most of the hockey season building up the leg muscles and receiving physical therapy. He played when the coaches felt he was the best fit against certain opponents. He certainly had lost a step from his previous speed and that probably lead to less playing time this year. I believe he has not been right since the injury and the coaches must have felt he turned the corner and will be an integral part of the team this coming year.

If you want to bash the coaches and the AD, please have at it. Please stop belittling our players. I hope the senior class has a great year. Our sophomore and junior classes should be very good this year and I am excited about the upcoming year. I believe most of us think the team played their hearts out for the last six weeks of the season and that we will be very competitive this coming season.

Our schedule posted on the flagdudes string could be better but it seems that this is our schedule for the year and we need to make the most of it. I do hope that 2016-2017 has us playing more of the perennial powerhouses out of conference. Let us hope for a Jumbotron and a full arena in the 2015-2016 season. I am certainly ready to see UNH back in the NCAA tournament every year.

Amen and thanks for the post. Onward 'Cats!!!!

Chuck Murray
04-30-2015, 10:35 AM
In thinking about captaincy, I decided to follow up on Patrick Foley, as his name has come up in this thread, and in other threads about his potential as a future head coach in Div 1. Speaking of which, I have not been able to find out why he left NU in August 2014 after three years as assistant coach there, and four years as assistant coach at Harvard before that, and two years coaching with the national team before that. But, back to UNH, as Foley was voted captain for his last three years, '01-02, '02-03, and '03-04, which was only the second time that had happened at UNH (who was the other?). As we know, two of those teams went to the FF, and UNH was deep on offense. I had forgotten that Foley was drafted by the Penquins in 2000, as his UNH totals were:

'99-00, 30 games, 3 G + 7 A = 10 points
'01-02, 35, 8+4=12
'02-03, 39, 8+10=18
'03-04, 39, 4+3+7

I bring all of this stuff up because I seem to recall that Foley played mostly on the third and fourth lines, but as captain spent a lot of extra "ice time" with the refs during breaks in play. I am not trying to make comparisons here, but I see no reason that the captain needs to be one of the top scorers.

Here are three links, the first about Foley as assistant coach at NU, the second about Umile suspending eight players for the Punch Imlach Showcase games against Canisius and Niagara in October 2003, which Foley also missed because of a concussion, and the third a five-year nostalgia anniversary tour, just to put things in perspective.

http://gonu.com/coaches.aspx?rc=244

http://m.seacoastonline.com/article/20031024/SPORTS/310249891

http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?90133-An-Open-Letter-to-Coach-Umile

Some folks commenting on this thread now are being disingenuous to some degree, I'm afraid. Not to single out Snively65, but there is a comment highlighted above that I've never, ever said. You absolutely do NOT need your captain to be one of your leading scorers. That would eliminate an awful lot of very talented defense-first defensemen, just for starters. That's a ridiculous approach.

My point continues to be, UNH has just selected a captain who has struggled to dress in roughly 50% of the regular season games in his three year career, and apparently has dressed in just one (1) postseason game. I'm very happy to stand corrected on any of that if it's not accurate. And yeah, I know there was a bad injury involved, and it may still be an ongoing issue. But at the end of the day, I truly believe that as a baseline, your captain has to be a regular participant and contributor as he takes on those leadership responsibilities.

I've explained why I feel this to be the case in my prior posts, and won't repeat them here. But what I WILL repeat - copied and pasted from my last post - my intent is not to criticize or belittle MacDonald here. I'm criticizing those responsible for his selection - be it the players and/or Coach Umile. Likely both. It's just a very poorly reasoned decision. MacDonald really has no choice but to step up and take on the mantle of leadership. I'm sure he didn't campaign for it, and I'm guessing he was probably at least a little surprised (if not downright shocked) to have been selected. He's the last person I'm criticizing for this decision.

There is a HUGE difference in not being a top scorer, and not even getting out on the ice in your team's biggest games of the season.

UNH's strong finish to this past season should form the foundation for next season, and hopefully beyond. The best-of-three road series win over the eventual D-1 Champions should have forged some incredible bonds within the team that they can hopefully draw upon in the future. A lot of those bonds result from stuff that happens out on the ice in those highly charged games, or even on the bench and in the locker room as kids step up, say and do things to galvanize the team. The team managed to pull off a great team accomplishment that in retrospect has only grown in significance in the weeks and events that have followed.

I guess I didn't expect next year's captain to be someone who was in a suit and tie or sweats at the back of the room for most (if not all) of those highly charged, emotional and ultimately inspirational postseason games.

P.S. - I suspect the idea that MacDonald was supposedly slated for the "first line" last season as suggested by a recent poster will come as news to a lot of people more knowledgeable than myself on this thread.

HockeyRef
04-30-2015, 11:44 AM
"There's alot of trust in this room". That statement was made by our in coming Captain as he accepted his new role. Thanks to Mike we all got to hear it. He made no lofty promises of winning the NC...just promised to put in the hard work needed himself and be an example to his team. I've had the chance to meet Collin at a couple of FOMH events and know he's going to be great as Capt. both on and off the ice.
One thing too that is really going to make a difference are the bonds that were forged on their journey of last season as he and others have alluded to. These boys got a taste of what can be possible. It's up to each and everyone of them to build on that and focus one game at a time regardless of the schedule which is formidable enough just with our HE games!
October will be here in a blink of an eye...Meanwhile I'm going to enjoy the last couple of days of my vacation 😉

UNHJourney34
05-01-2015, 09:40 AM
Right now on NBCSN Team USA is Taking on Finland in the first game of the World Championships, and former 'Cat Stevie Moses is playing on the first line! And in the last minute of the first period He scored the first goal of the game against Nashville's Pekka Rinne (presumably his future teammate). Caught the pass with his feet, kicked it up to his stick around the defenseman, and roofed the backhand over Rinne's shoulder.

Snively65
05-01-2015, 10:43 AM
Right now on NBCSN Team USA is Taking on Finland in the first game of the World Championships, and former 'Cat Stevie Moses is playing on the first line! And in the last minute of the first period He scored the first goal of the game against Nashville's Pekka Rinne (presumably his future teammate). Caught the pass with his feet, kicked it up to his stick around the defenseman, and roofed the backhand over Rinne's shoulder.

Really, really cool. Stevie should have a lot of these Finnish D-men, besides Rinne, figured out after his past three years over there. :-)

C-H-C
05-01-2015, 11:30 AM
IIHF World Championship shows what an electric game NHL hockey could be if played on olympic-sized rink. Premium on speed and play-making.

Greg A
05-01-2015, 02:18 PM
[QUOTE=UNH1932;6157222]Please stop belittling our players. QUOTE]

This is a baseless accusation that I feel is directed toward Chuck and me. I never referred to Colin MacDonald's level of talent. I just asked the question, and I think it is a legitimate one, why a player who has played so little, whatever the reason, would be named captain. As I stated previously, Mike's interview with MacDonald gave me some insight on a kid I knew absolutely nothing about. Coming in, I knew he had a reputation as a scorer and, while here, I knew he suffered a serious leg injury. That's it! My comments were directly focused on the thought process, by both the players and the coaching staff, in naming captain a player with this limited resume. That's it.

Given all that, I also want to address the notion that UNH players are beyond reproach. I have heard this stated many times over the years, going back to the late 90's when Eric Johnson's father hopped on this board and critized posters who dared state that his kid was not the second coming of Bobby Orr. All or most of the players at UNH are adults, many are 23 or even 24. Almost to a man (and they are men, not boys), they entered UNH seeing it as a stepping stone to a professional career. They have all been wooed for this purpose since they were at least 14, even earlier in most cases.

I don't know how the majority of the current posters feel on this because the makeup of those who come on here has changed over the years. But when posters like Watcher or Dan project on how kids are going to play or have played out at UNH does that constitute belittement? Or if a forward does not get back on an opposition breakout or a defenseman stands there like a pylon as a forward blows by him for a goal, is it unfair for us to point this out? Just wondering.

Chuck Murray
05-01-2015, 04:44 PM
This is a baseless accusation that I feel is directed toward Chuck and me. I never referred to Colin MacDonald's level of talent. I just asked the question, and I think it is a legitimate one, why a player who has played so little, whatever the reason, would be named captain. As I stated previously, Mike's interview with MacDonald gave me some insight on a kid I knew absolutely nothing about. Coming in, I knew he had a reputation as a scorer and, while here, I knew he suffered a serious leg injury. That's it! My comments were directly focused on the thought process, by both the players and the coaching staff, in naming captain a player with this limited resume. That's it.

Agreed 100%.


Given all that, I also want to address the notion that UNH players are beyond reproach. I have heard this stated many times over the years, going back to the late 90's when Eric Johnson's father hopped on this board and critized posters who dared state that his kid was not the second coming of Bobby Orr. All or most of the players at UNH are adults, many are 23 or even 24. Almost to a man (and they are men, not boys), they entered UNH seeing it as a stepping stone to a professional career. They have all been wooed for this purpose since they were at least 14, even earlier in most cases.

Wow, talk about going into the "Way-Back Machine"!! :eek: Sad thing is, I remember those exchanges. :o Oh, for a return to the good old "Wild West" days of the pre-social media Internet. Nowadays it's too often like some folks are sitting back waiting to take offense at any comments that stray from feel-good PC lite patter that passes for commentary.


I don't know how the majority of the current posters feel on this because the makeup of those who come on here has changed over the years. But when posters like Watcher or Dan project on how kids are going to play or have played out at UNH does that constitute belittlement? Or if a forward does not get back on an opposition breakout or a defenseman stands there like a pylon as a forward blows by him for a goal, is it unfair for us to point this out? Just wondering.

Very fair and well-framed questions. And I totally understand that some folks are conditioned to avoid criticism or conflict at all costs, so I'm not asking anyone to venture out of their comfort zones. But before you cast aspersions on legitimate questioning of a very curious decision made by a group of young adults (i.e. older players) and backed by a smaller group of older adults (i.e. coaches), at least take the time to understand what you are objecting to, and don't make up straw man arguments to mischaracterize what those of us who dare to state a dissenting opinion have to say. If you frame a dissenting opinion that fairly represents our disagreement, that's great, and then we can actually *gasp* have a discussion that opens some minds. We used to have that here all the time. Nowadays ... not so much. :(

Snively65
05-01-2015, 10:12 PM
Some folks commenting on this thread now are being disingenuous to some degree, I'm afraid. Not to single out Snively65, but there is a comment highlighted above that I've never, ever said. You absolutely do NOT need your captain to be one of your leading scorers. That would eliminate an awful lot of very talented defense-first defensemen, just for starters. That's a ridiculous approach.

My point continues to be, UNH has just selected a captain who has struggled to dress in roughly 50% of the regular season games in his three year career, and apparently has dressed in just one (1) postseason game. I'm very happy to stand corrected on any of that if it's not accurate. And yeah, I know there was a bad injury involved, and it may still be an ongoing issue. But at the end of the day, I truly believe that as a baseline, your captain has to be a regular participant and contributor as he takes on those leadership responsibilities.

Hey, Chuck, I did not write that you said that captains need to be scorers; please go back and re-read my post, which was not a 'reply with quote' to any particular post, anything but. In fact, I also included data on the number of games played, which supports your and Greg's points; I think that these points are valid for discussion and entirely appropriate for this thread. I think that any notion that potential incoming players' parents might turn their sons away from UNH after reading postings on this thread is ludicrous. However, I will say what I and others have said before, and that is Umile needs to give incoming freshmen lots of ice time, especially early in the season to see what we have, even if those minutes and games come from seniors who are not putting the puck in the net. So there, potential incoming players' parents should love that point of view if they are reading this thread.

NCAA watcher
05-02-2015, 08:59 AM
I prefer to focus on the guys who recruit these kids. At least they get paid to perform, so it seems a bit easier. Hard to blame kids for being what they are.

(But when I do that I also am told I am being unfair, so I just stop. ;)) Anyway, I hope Collin is getting a great education and will do the University proud.

Greg A
05-02-2015, 10:01 AM
I prefer to focus on the guys who recruit these kids. At least they get paid to perform, so it seems a bit easier. Hard to blame kids for being what they are.

(But when I do that I also am told I am being unfair, so I just stop. ;)) Anyway, I hope Collin is getting a great education and will do the University proud.

Amen, brother

HockeyRef
05-02-2015, 01:31 PM
Ok so been thinking about the past few posts as I've soaked up the Fla sun...and am heading home to hopefully better weather than I left. Deleted my last post coz it dawned on me that I don't have to skate on both sides of the ice and it's no secret where my loyalties lie. I'm one of those 'new' posters who apparently don't have much to say anyway so here goes...
Please explain to me how calling players like our current Senior class "talentless pluggers" isn't belittling them? I mean heck this is just a message board where one can say whatever you want so have at it but please...don't say comments like that aren't of a belittling nature!
Oh and when one of our graduating Seniors was called a "wiff" if I have that right...
Post whatever you like but at least get real about what you post. Or follow a team who's got it all together. End of rant. Have at it.