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C-H-C
04-13-2015, 11:28 AM
@MikeMcMahonCHN: Clarkson and St. Lawrence will come to UNH and Merrimack on 10/16 and 10/17. MC and UNH go north in 2016-17.

Greg A
04-13-2015, 11:46 AM
Well, that's fair. I'm not going to argue about it. (the faceoff play was the year before - I wasn't using it as part of any argument - I was just saying that we understand there has been a lot of heartbreak. That same night was the game when the ref skated over to Parker before he pulled the goalie one down against Michigan and said "You better not leave the bench early." As soon as Parker pulled the goalie he called too many men on the ice - talk about pre-meditated).

I get the animosity towards BU. I have a hard time with it sometimes, but I understand. Personally, if there is any team I would like to see win the whole thing (if it isn't us) is UNH. I was just basically explaining the scenario for those who weren't aware of the process at that time. IMO, the committee choosing BU in '78 wasn't "wrong" - they had that option. The fact that they were probably wrong in '74 doesn't have any bearing on what happened four years later, but I get it. I know people hate it when someone says "I know how you feel," so I won't say that.

So, in closing, it wasn't a lot of verbiage to "excuse" what happened, because they didn't need an excuse. It was within the rules. Was the committee's "authority" inconsistently wielded? Yes. And that's probably ultimately why the whole pairwise thing evolved, to take ALL of the subjectivity out of it. I don't want to harp on this and I'm not trying to be antagonistic (I've done plenty of that on other threads). I was just trying to answer his question.

I feel like the Patriots fans in 2000 who said that they finally got "payback" for Ben Dreith and the roughing the passer call against the Raiders. I know a lot of people out there are happy that BU blew this. Whatever. I can't control what others think. It is what it is. Personally I don't revel in other people's disappointment or failures. Resentment is a very negative emotion and usually doesn't result in much good. I'm not speaking directly to you...just to the incredible display of euphoria by all the BU haters. It's a little over the top to me. I'm sorry, but I was surrounded by North Dakota, Lowell, Cornell, Harvard and BC fans. They were NOT cheering FOR Providence. They were cheering AGAINST BU. So if I sound defensive, after 45 years of going to these games, it takes its toll. :)

I was at the games that weekend in Detroit and I remembe the TMM call distinctly. Was Craig the goalie, can't remember, but he was quite a way from the bench when the BU extra attacker cam on the ice. I didn't like the call at the time but, if Parker was warned, he should have heeded.

And I will reiterate, I was not rooting against BU vs. PC. But leading up to the game I told many people who were hockey fans but had little more than a casual interest in the game that BU had flaws defensively, from the goalie on out. And these flaws could come back to bite them. And they did, at the worst possible time. Reminds me of Brian Boyle playing defense for BC when they lost to Michigan St. in 2007. I remember sitting next to an old time BC fan in Manchester while the Eagles were playing. His take was that York could get away with playing Boyle on defense but, at some point, it would come back and bite him. And it did, at the worst possible time.

Greg A
04-13-2015, 11:49 AM
Correct. Nerves. They didn't react to almost anything the rest of the game because they were still in shock. The bigger question mark is why Eichel even TOOK the draw. He had lost every draw in the period up to that point (and it's not one of his strong points anyway). And after he lost it he didn't even go after the man. He just froze. They all froze. They were done after that previous goal and we all knew it. And in reference to the bolded words above, it's NOT the same. It just isn't. You can't compare the two.

So my response would be that Quinn did what most coaches do...he reverts back to what he has the most confidence in. You try to keep things as familiar as possible in pressure situations. As he said after the game (and I paraphrase) "The one thing we needed in that situation was the one thing we didn't have - experience." You can't teach experience in anything in life. You have to live it. And it's a good thing, too, because if that were not the case, a lot of us that are my age (over 30 :D) wouldn't have jobs.

Regarding Eichel, I saw him enough this year to know that he needs to improve defensively. Let's just say that Claude Julien would have worries about him. So, question. Does he stay or does he go? Since there is precedent for #2 picks staying (Toews and JVR) in college it might not be a slam dunk. I guess it comes down to how big the bonus is.

chickod
04-13-2015, 12:09 PM
But leading up to the game I told many people who were hockey fans but had little more than a casual interest in the game that BU had flaws defensively, from the goalie on out. And these flaws could come back to bite them. And they did, at the worst possible time. Reminds me of Brian Boyle playing defense for BC when they lost to Michigan St. in 2007. I remember sitting next to an old time BC fan in Manchester while the Eagles were playing. His take was that York could get away with playing Boyle on defense but, at some point, it would come back and bite him. And it did, at the worst possible time.

You are 100% correct. We said that all year. Our freshman defensemen would continually get trapped or were unable to get the puck out of their own end all year. Goaltending was intermittently "shaky." It just got to the point that we survived it all year and it was a shame it imploded in the LAST game. But, you're talking about a team with a large number of experienced, 23 year-old players that knew how to retain their composure when it mattered most. We also said that we need to stop depending upon third period comebacks and get ahead in these games. Well, the ironic thing thinking back is (and I'm dead serious about this), I think we would have been BETTER OFF not being ahead going into the 3rd. I think the team played better all year in that situation (and I know they were 19-0-0 when leading after two, but that's because they were more talented than most of their opponents). You could see it coming that they would lose their composure on this stage in this situation. But, you have to admit, it's the NATURE of "that" goal that would have shaken anyone. I know there are people out their saying that "an experienced team would have regained their composure and found a way to win." Really? Have any of those people seen a "goal" like what happened. Have you? I have never seen anything like that in 50 years of watching hockey. Did they not cover on that faceoff? Sure. Were they still in complete shock (timeout or no timeout)? What do you think?

chickod
04-13-2015, 12:11 PM
Regarding Eichel, I saw him enough this year to know that he needs to improve defensively. Let's just say that Claude Julien would have worries about him. So, question. Does he stay or does he go? Since there is precedent for #2 picks staying (Toews and JVR) in college it might not be a slam dunk. I guess it comes down to how big the bonus is.

Just spoke to a buddy of mine with close ties to the team. It's not a done deal that he's gone. Given the recent track record of BU players that have left early, you could certainly make a case that a second year would be highly beneficial. Regarding Julien, he didn't like Phil Kessel either so I assume that comment was in jest... :)

JB
04-13-2015, 01:08 PM
And I will reiterate, I was not rooting against BU vs. PC. But leading up to the game I told many people who were hockey fans but had little more than a casual interest in the game that BU had flaws defensively, from the goalie on out. And these flaws could come back to bite them. And they did, at the worst possible time. Reminds me of Brian Boyle playing defense for BC when they lost to Michigan St. in 2007. I remember sitting next to an old time BC fan in Manchester while the Eagles were playing. His take was that York could get away with playing Boyle on defense but, at some point, it would come back and bite him. And it did, at the worst possible time.

I was rooting for a good game. I thought BU would win on the talent gap. I was torn between BU getting a 6th and a new champion not named UNH. It pains me when there is another new winner and that UNH seemingly has be on the wrong side of every bounce (including injuries) not all years but many, 74,77,99 Noeth, etc.

I have watched BU more than a couple times this year and I thought they had significant issues on D and in goal, offense covered well most of the year. The D seemed to be a combination of young D-men and disinterested stretches in the D zone by (young) forwards. I felt that was why many times BU need a crazy come back, 40 minutes of disinterested D-zone play can cause that. It seemed that late in the year the skaters had a handle on the 60-min and play in there own end, not amazing but good enough. O'Connor never seemed on, in 3 years I am not sure he has ever been the goalie to win you a game. Seems like every game I have seen he gives up a soft goal. Seemingly good position but just not good at the details, handling the puck, getting down at the right time, consistent rebound control, etc. I would describe him as a big guy that can read a play. Put it this way if I was a pro scout I wouldn't be interested.

As to the play itself. When I watch the reply I am not sure O'Connor was ever sure the puck was in his glove. It looked like from the moment he caught the puck he was looking for it. He even said he didn't see it in his glove, most goalies don't look for it in the glove they just know it is there. His entire set of reactions look like a goalie with no clue where the puck went, even to the point of going down and getting big at the goal line and ultimately pushing the puck in the net. I am not sure anyone can say what really happened in that moment, at this point even for O'Connor it is probably a nonsensical blur.

JB
04-13-2015, 01:20 PM
I know there are people out their saying that "an experienced team would have regained their composure and found a way to win." Really? Have any of those people seen a "goal" like what happened. Have you? I have never seen anything like that in 50 years of watching hockey. Did they not cover on that faceoff? Sure. Were they still in complete shock (timeout or no timeout)? What do you think?

I have seen lots of crazy goals. Never one where the puck was in the glove. The bouncing puck from center ice that eludes the goalie or the one that hits the glass bounces off the top of the net in off the goalies back/head, or mishandled behind the net by goalie (couple years back UNH goalie played up the boards right to I think a Lowell player who shot it in the open net) or even the fake clear in - shot in the empty net (Bruins got one that way last couple years). Of all those crazy "bad" play goals I am not sure before BU this year I have ever seen the team scored on "that way" win. See one of those goals seems like you can write game over in the book.

From "that" goal on Saturday night it seem inevitable PC was going to win. Honestly on Thursday North Dakota just ran out of time, another 5-10 (game) minutes of that game and BU doesn't make the Championship. ND just dug to deep a hole.

chickod
04-13-2015, 01:26 PM
I have watched BU more than a couple times this year and I thought they had significant issues on D and in goal, offense covered well most of the year. The D seemed to be a combination of young D-men and disinterested stretches in the D zone by (young) forwards. I felt that was why many times BU need a crazy come back, 40 minutes of disinterested D-zone play can cause that. It seemed that late in the year the skaters had a handle on the 60-min and play in there own end, not amazing but good enough. O'Connor never seemed on, in 3 years I am not sure he has ever been the goalie to win you a game. Seems like every game I have seen he gives up a soft goal. Seemingly good position but just not good at the details, handling the puck, getting down at the right time, consistent rebound control, etc. I would describe him as a big guy that can read a play. Put it this way if I was a pro scout I wouldn't be interested.

100% correct...we knew it was a matter of time...we were just stunned when we made it to the 41st game and it hadn't happened yet...


As to the play itself. When I watch the reply I am not sure O'Connor was ever sure the puck was in his glove. It looked like from the moment he caught the puck he was looking for it. He even said he didn't see it in his glove, most goalies don't look for it in the glove they just know it is there. His entire set of reactions look like a goalie with no clue where the puck went, even to the point of going down and getting big at the goal line and ultimately pushing the puck in the net. I am not sure anyone can say what really happened in that moment, at this point even for O'Connor it is probably a nonsensical blur.

That's what's troubling. It happened Thursday as well. "Self-imposed" is how I like to think of it. NOBODY was anywhere near the puck...it bounced off the boards and as he was skating back it got caught in his skates. But it's almost as if he didn't know where it was then, either. It's inexplicable how that happens. I don't understand it, but I don't have to. HE does. And that's the problem....

Chuck Murray
04-13-2015, 01:48 PM
From "that" goal on Saturday night it seem inevitable PC was going to win. Honestly on Thursday North Dakota just ran out of time, another 5-10 (game) minutes of that game and BU doesn't make the Championship. ND just dug to deep a hole.

Agreed JB. I didn't see the previous two BU tourney games when O'Connor apparently let up a pair of other catastrophic goals. So it's even less surprising it happened again. My impression from what I'd seen previously from him was that he was a weak link back there, but the BU defense wasn't doing him any favors with their overall defensive zone coverage. And as others have pointed out since, it's one of those things that sometimes you can slide by with, but it will eventually catch up with you at some point - probably at the worst time.

Regardless, you gotta think Coach Quinn will learn and probably avoid putting too many eggs in one (goalie) basket in the future. He really did not have an option of pulling the kid at that juncture. Considering the rave reviews he's gotten for his recruiting in recent years, it seems in retrospect like he missed an important piece of the puzzle.

chickod
04-13-2015, 01:51 PM
Regardless, you gotta think Coach Quinn will learn and probably avoid putting too many eggs in one (goalie) basket in the future. He really did not have an option of pulling the kid at that juncture. Considering the rave reviews he's gotten for his recruiting in recent years, it seems in retrospect like he missed an important piece of the puzzle.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe Quinn recruited him. He was gone after 2009 (when they won the NC) to the NHL. True...you couldn't pull him. Initially we were all sitting there asking that same thing and pretty much agreed that if it had happened in the 1st period...MAYBE. But you can't put in a guy who played about three games all year in the biggest game of the season. Not fair.

Nick Papagiorgio
04-13-2015, 01:53 PM
Agreed JB. I didn't see the previous two BU tourney games when O'Connor apparently let up a pair of other catastrophic goals. So it's even less surprising it happened again. My impression from what I'd seen previously from him was that he was a weak link back there, but the BU defense wasn't doing him any favors with their overall defensive zone coverage. And as others have pointed out since, it's one of those things that sometimes you can slide by with, but it will eventually catch up with you at some point - probably at the worst time.

Regardless, you gotta think Coach Quinn will learn and probably avoid putting too many eggs in one (goalie) basket in the future. He really did not have an option of pulling the kid at that juncture. Considering the rave reviews he's gotten for his recruiting in recent years, it seems in retrospect like he missed an important piece of the puzzle.

If O'Connor were in a UNH jersey for the past 3 years, you guys would have been putting up Hobey campaigns for him. Basically, he is like BU's version of Mike Ayers, the only difference being one couldn't stop a beach ball in the 3rd period of the NCAA title game and the other caught the ball the threw it into his own net. :D

JB
04-13-2015, 02:03 PM
If O'Connor were in a UNH jersey for the past 3 years, you guys would have been putting up Hobey campaigns for him. Basically, he is like BU's version of Mike Ayers, the only difference being one couldn't stop a beach ball in the 3rd period of the NCAA title game and the other caught the ball the threw it into his own net. :D

Hey there is a big difference between not being able to stop the beach ball and scoring on yourself.

When a goalie gets the yips weather it be handling the puck or just stopping it you are in trouble ... hello Clemensieve ... it is a joy I think we have all shared at some point.

Until this Championship run the "great" Gilles was just meh in big games.

JB
04-13-2015, 02:06 PM
Agreed JB. I didn't see the previous two BU tourney games when O'Connor apparently let up a pair of other catastrophic goals.

The previous 2 were soft as puppy poo not soul crushing "what the hell just happened" goals. Heck even the HE semi-final against UNH the first goal was pretty week.

On the Nick scale they were Ayers beach balls or Clemensieve 5-holes... not pulling an O'Connor. (ouch!)

CLS
04-13-2015, 02:55 PM
O'Connor was lucky, or unlucky depending on how you look at it, that Lyons also gave up a soft goal i n the Yale game. If it weren't for that, BU would have lost in the first round.

Just generally, of the four games I saw, I was very disappointed in the goaltending. IMO, the only solid performance was Gillies in the semi-finals, and that was partially because Providence outplayed Omaha by so much that he didn't have much to do.

C-H-C
04-13-2015, 02:58 PM
I have watched BU more than a couple times this year and I thought they had significant issues on D and in goal, offense covered well most of the year. The D seemed to be a combination of young D-men and disinterested stretches in the D zone by (young) forwards. I felt that was why many times BU need a crazy come back, 40 minutes of disinterested D-zone play can cause that. It seemed that late in the year the skaters had a handle on the 60-min and play in there own end, not amazing but good enough. O'Connor never seemed on, in 3 years I am not sure he has ever been the goalie to win you a game. Seems like every game I have seen he gives up a soft goal. Seemingly good position but just not good at the details, handling the puck, getting down at the right time, consistent rebound control, etc. I would describe him as a big guy that can read a play. Put it this way if I was a pro scout I wouldn't be interested.

When UNH beat BU 4-3 on February 15th (http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2015/02/jay-camper-sparks-unh-win-over-2-bu.html) at the Whittemore Center, O'Connor gave up 3 goals by the midway point of the second period and was replaced by LeCouvee. On the first UNH goal, the young BU defenders did not cover Shane Eiserman and O'Connor didn't look like he was on top of his game:

https://youtu.be/PCEuv8jYSQY

chickod
04-13-2015, 03:02 PM
When UNH beat BU 4-3 on February 15th at the Whittemore Center, O'Connor gave up 3 goals by the midway point of the second period and was replaced by LeCouvee. On the first UNH goal, the young BU defenders did not cover Shane Eiserman and O'Connor didn't look like he was on top of his game:

https://youtu.be/PCEuv8jYSQY

Which was what I meant when I said we could "see this coming." We got deluded into thinking we could make it all the way without it coming back to bite us...we got within eight minutes. :)

HockeyRef
04-13-2015, 03:39 PM
When UNH beat BU 4-3 on February 15th (http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2015/02/jay-camper-sparks-unh-win-over-2-bu.html) at the Whittemore Center, O'Connor gave up 3 goals by the midway point of the second period and was replaced by LeCouvee. On the first UNH goal, the young BU defenders did not cover Shane Eiserman and O'Connor didn't look like he was on top of his game:

https://youtu.be/PCEuv8jYSQY

Glad you brought up this game because I had been thinking of it while reading all of this...of course we all remember how BU came back in the 3rd to score 3 quick ones...Anyway...onto the HE semi where UNH had many quality chances in the first (and that goal...we were lucky) but Matt O'C did a good job of shutting us down for the remainder of the night. Don't recall really how well we played after the first..
Like I already said, whatever your weakness is during the season has an unfortunate way of showing itself when it counts the most. Not saying that the goal gaffe by MO'C is the reason BU did not win, think that's been hashed out enough. Interesting how it all goes down...

Scott
04-13-2015, 09:24 PM
If O'Connor were in a UNH jersey for the past 3 years, you guys would have been putting up Hobey campaigns for him. Basically, he is like BU's version of Mike Ayers, the only difference being one couldn't stop a beach ball in the 3rd period of the NCAA title game and the other caught the ball the threw it into his own net. :D

Twelve years later and the Mike Ayers jokes still fly with you guys! :rolleyes: One has to wonder what kind of coaching wisdom he is dispensing with the likes of Demko?;)

billb
04-13-2015, 10:34 PM
Coaching wisdom notwithstanding, I watched the final game while UNH fans were saying yah we're so great, we beat both of these teams. I watched two goals late in the game which even the announcers said were scored on set plays, but the initial assumption on both plays was winning the faceoff. Umile was a hard-nosed player, never famous for his brains as were not most Theta Chi undergrads. He did not as a player consider winning faceoffs important, because, with hustle, he could get back a quarter of those pucks. It's a different game now; Umile couldn't make the UNH squad today. If you lose a faceoff now, the puck is gone, start skating the other way.
But Big Dick never learned. He himself never could win a faceoff, and he couldn't teach someone how to, either. He's never learned the importance of winning faceoffs; maybe a skill so basic is too cerebral for him. And every game I watch and see mise en jeu, and UNH is at the bottom in that stat, I know Umile is collecting his checks, and UNH is still a second rate power.
I also see Mr. DeSmith is out on the streets, and I wonder about due process. Just a kid, a talented kid, who made some small mistakes, all of which turned out to be inconsequential, but Big Dick said kick his sorry butt out. Such a sad end for DeSmith, and for his team mates who knew he had done little wrong, because they had to claw their way out of a hole all season, but Big Dick still collected his checks.
I'm a UNH alumnus, and I like to see UNH win, especially in the post-season. Unfortunately, winning is not the issue with the Athletic Department; the happiness of one Dick Umile is for some perverse reason the driving force behind the hockey program. He is free to strut around like a tick behind the bench as UNH loses the big games and potential recruits say "Why UNH," and other programs are excelling while UNH stagnates. This is getting old.

C-H-C
04-14-2015, 06:51 AM
FWIW from the Boston University thread:


Posted by buoldtimer:

Has anyone met Hokydad? Does anyone know his background?

Given his strong opinions and the confidence with which he dispenses his insights and information, I must surmise that hockey is his livelihood.


Posted by Deuce:

He's the father of PC's 7th D.

If accurate, would explain familiarity with Providence College and Malden Catholic hockey programs.