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**C-H-C** · 03-30-2015, 09:11 PM

Re: UNH Wildcats TD Garden and Beyond 2015

Originally posted by JB View Post

I think I would take Vecchione over any junior - to be senior on the UNH roster. The only exception would have been Pesce. It is a gapping hole.

I love the work you do (CHC) but I worry it is too forgiving. I look back at the high-end UNH teams and there are very few players on the current roster that make those teams. That is the issue that exists and it is all about talent identification and aquition. Difficult task or not that is a big part of the job, and other teams got it done. Recruiting when you are at the top sshould be easier.

Thanks JB. I respect your opinions and often agree with them. In private conversations with UNH fans I've known a while, I don't hesitate to express my disagreement with decisions that UNH coaches make - both in games and on the recruiting trail and I voice concerns about players' performances. However, on the blog, I try to be as objective as possible. When I write that a recruit or player does something "outstanding" or "remarkable", I'm giving my honest opinion but I realize that others would not be as impressed by the same achievement. That's one of the reasons I include observations by coaches and scouts whenever I find them and I include videos so others can judge for themselves just how good a player or recruit might be.

**Snively65** · 03-30-2015, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by JB View Post

I think I would take Vecchione over any junior - to be senior on the UNH roster. The only exception would have been Pesce. It is a gapping hole.

I love the work you do (CHC) but I worry it is too forgiving. I look back at the high-end UNH teams and there are very few players on the current roster that make those teams. That is the issue that exists and it is all about talent identification and aquition. Difficult task or not that is a big part of the job, and other teams got it done. Recruiting when you are at the top sshould be easier.

I do not understand your point(s). UNH asked Vecchione to spend another year in juniors, he refused, pulled his commitment to UNH, committed to Union, they asked him to spend another year in juniors, which he did, and apparently that helped him and his team win a national championship last year. He was a sophomore this year, not a junior. I cannot believe that so many people on this thread are now worshippers of the ultimate troll Hokydad.

JB · 03-30-2015, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by Snively65 View Post

I do not understand your point(s). UNH asked Vecchione to spend another year in juniors, he refused, pulled his commitment to UNH, committed to Union, they asked him to spend another year in juniors, which he did, and apparently that helped him and his team win a national championship last year. He was a sophomore this year, not a junior. I cannot believe that so many people on this thread are now worshippers of the ultimate troll Hokydad.

I follow your logic and I believe it is likely Vecchione would have been in the stands as a freshman if not defered. History tells us the extra year did him good. I believe it is also possible that freshman year in the stands may have been a problem for his personality, from how he handled being defered. However it takes two to tango and I will not absolve the UNH coaches for there part. UNH has a track record of player development, which tells me if they did bring him in He would have grown and been a good player in Durham.

Clearly there was poor communications with the player. Maybe how he was asked to defer, maybe how his arrival date was discussed, maybe at another point.

**C-H-C** · 03-30-2015, 09:22 PM

Re: UNH Wildcats TD Garden and Beyond 2015

Originally posted by JB View Post

I think one of the key aspects here is to understand the personalities you are bringing in. Some players are going to be ok letting you defer them, others will defer you, and then there are ones that will be ****ed if you try. Clearly the staff didn't choose wisely with a couple talented players. I will note that having followed unh recruiting for years the defer thing and flexible enrollment dates is a newer thing.

Recruiters from every college program also have to deal with and evaluate the personalities of the players' parents, their "advisors" and their current coaches. I can imagine that the disagreements get pretty dicey at times. I've spoken to some parents after their son enrolled at UNH and they've expressed to me just how difficult and gut-wrenching some of the decisions were along the way - for example, whether to leave home and go to the Midwest or British Columbia to play juniors.

JB · 03-30-2015, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by C-H-C View Post

Recruiters from every college program also have to deal with and evaluate the personalities of the players' parents, their "advisors" and their current coaches. I can imagine that the disagreements get pretty dicey at times.

I think the two hardest parts must be: 1) seeing the future on the less obvious talents, 2) evaluating how the personalities will fit.

Everybody is playing nice during recruiting (dating) but what happens when you have to live together and really get to know the inlaws...

JB · 03-30-2015, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by C-H-C View Post

Thanks JB. I respect your opinions and often agree with them. In private conversations with UNH fans I've known a while, I don't hesitate to express my disagreement with decisions that UNH coaches make - both in games and on the recruiting trail and I voice concerns about players' performances. However, on the blog, I try to be as objective as possible. When I write that a recruit or player does something "outstanding" or "remarkable", I'm giving my honest opinion but I realize that others would not be as impressed by the same achievement. That's one of the reasons I include observations by coaches and scouts whenever I find them and I include videos so others can judge for themselves just how good a player or recruit might be.

I think your are rightly optimistic on the blog. I like the coaches comments you include. I am not sure I agree with the word objective, but I don't think you should be tearing down 16 year olds. Appropriately optimistic.

**scoreboard** · 03-30-2015, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by Snively65 View Post

I do not understand your point(s). UNH asked Vecchione to spend another year in juniors, he refused, pulled his commitment to UNH, committed to Union, they asked him to spend another year in juniors, which he did, and apparently that helped him and his team win a national championship last year. He was a sophomore this year, not a junior. I cannot believe that so many people on this thread are now worshippers of the ultimate troll Hokydad.

I think UNH clearly made a mistake on Vecchione. He had 50 points this year as a sophomore for Union. UNH's top junior was Correale (his peer) with 17 points. Kelleher, a sophomore, was UNH top point scorer at 42. Granted it is not apples to apples. Makes you wonder though....

**Dan** · 03-30-2015, 09:55 PM

Re: UNH Wildcats TD Garden and Beyond 2015

Originally posted by C-H-C View Post

Downing committed to UNH in July, 2008 when he was 16 years old. The USHR article said that he committed for 2010. Apparently, Downing was asked by the UNH coaches to play an extra year in the BCHL because he did not enroll until the Fall of 2011.

Downing was never coming in 2010 - I remember watching him play with Westside and Cam Reid. He was always coming a year after Cam Reid, who was supposed to arrive in 2010 along with Matt White. The list of lost UNH recruits is a LOT longer than just Joey Laleggia and Mike Vecchione.

**Will O'Neill (academics - 101 points in 4 seasons at Maine)
Ryan Bourque (major junior - 102 points in 2 seasons with Quebec)
**Cam Reid (academics - 44 points in 1.5 seasons at St. Cloud)
**Matt White (academics - 99 points in 3 seasons at Omaha)
Joey Laleggia (forced deferral - 102 points in 4 seasons at Denver)
Mike Vecchione (forced deferral - 84 points in 2 seasons at Union)

Agree with JB and Watcher about the forgiving and apologetic reaction to UNH's recent recruiting issues. These issues ARE the reason UNH fans have fallen from the verge of celebrating National Championships to being satisfied and excited about finishing 19-19-2 with a 5-5 record against Frozen Four opponents. You can be a fan and be critical...

Its also the reason why realistic UNH fans (not voices of doom) aren't ready to make title plans next season. It all points towards Umile's biggest weakness - an inability to trust younger players. Since the mid 2000's, UNH has made a habit of deferring much more talented players, so that they could round out rosters with less talented players and rely on upperclassmen and it has HURT them.

Laleggia was asked to defer, so that UNH could bring in Agosta instead - Agosta didn't play a game in 2010, in lieu of 29 appearances by Mike Beck. Eric Knodel was also on that team, but Umile didn't trust him to play as well as MIKE BECK!! Knodel also failed to play in a SINGLE game that season. Meanwhile, Laleggia posted 82 points in 58 BCHL games and averaged a point-per-game the next season as a freshman at DU. He didn't benefit from an extra year - he dominated because he was way past ready!

Vecchione was deferred in large part due to the forward heavy class UNH had brought in ahead of him. Vecchione has scored the aforementioned 84 points in two seasons at Union, that UNH junior class has scored 107 points combined. Vecchione may have needed an extra year of development before contributing at a high level in college (its absolutely a fair argument) - but he SHOULD have had that year of development at UNH and not in the USHL. FYI, he didn't defer for Union - scholarship money at that point is likely gone and he had no choice, except NOT to come to UNH.

Regardless, I'd argue that Vecchione doesn't make the immediate impact at UNH anyway - because Umile most-likely would not have played him on a top-line ahead of Thrush or Correale, etc. It may not have taken Kelleher until his sophomore year to be such an impact player if he hadn't spent the last 3/4 of his freshman year relegated to the fourth line.

This season, Umile had no choice - due to the lack of depth up front and the departures on the back end - but to play the freshman. We can only hope he's desperate enough for a title to do it again, but until he proves that he will consistently bring in the most talented recruits and play the most talented players in top roles there will be concern among objective fans. Even this season, he only did so to a point - bringing in guys like McNicholas and Boyd only to leave them in the seats...

Did anyone else notice that when McNicholas played he saw a fair amount of PP time? That to me is proof that Umile saw the talent, but didn't trust the defense - a big mistake in my opinion. Goal differential is goal differential. It was a lost season, play the more talented player and get ready for next year!

For those of you who think this season's late run is an indicator that UNH is back, you better begin to prepare yourself for a soft landing. Losing Downing, Willows and Pesce is going to have a major impact. Aside from Kelleher and Cleland there is no additional upperclass, truly experienced talent. UNH is still AT LEAST a year away and that timeline depends heavily on the decisions they make in this fall's recruiting class...

Will the staff do the right thing and bring in and play a class that includes Blackburn, Vela, BVR, Masonious? Or will they continue the recent history of bringing in the age appropriate, hard-working and dependable group, while handing top-six forward jobs to seniors?

The talent needs to arrive this fall - and play major roles - so that they can earn experience and then return the entire group of major contributors in 2016-17. Then, and only then, is UNH Hockey and its recruiting back on track...

Blackburn - Poturalski - Kelleher
Foegel - McNicholas - Vela
Correale - Smith - Eiserman
BVR - Gaudreault - Salvaggio
MacDonald - Kalinowski - Hill

Cleland - Masonious
Marks - Furgele
Chanter/Maller/Boyd
Quast

Umile has done an excellent job in my opinion with limited rosters the last few seasons - its a shame he's had to coach limited personnel, but its only his fault.

**The rumors on the academic casualties are 100% correct - they were mainly a result of new foreign language policies at UNH. The lack of attention to detail from the coaching staff to monitor recruits course work in relation to university requirements is astounding. That's fundamental recruiting 101 in any sport. Athletic Departments have compliance offices and academic advisors to specifically make sure that coaches are aware of new admissions policies...

**C-H-C** · 03-30-2015, 09:59 PM

Re: UNH Wildcats TD Garden and Beyond 2015

Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post

Shortly after UNH started deferring recruits is when the new mantra of no-promises became the norm

Here's the difference. When I express an opinion, I make it clear that it is an opinion, not a confirmed fact.

**Dan** · 03-30-2015, 10:10 PM

Re: UNH Wildcats TD Garden and Beyond 2015

As JB stated below, and Watcher has stated - for those of us who have followed recruiting the deferring and variable year start dates are a new development (coinciding to some degree with early recruitment). My opinion is that UNH started deferring, blew it with a few players and has now made clear to recruits that their year of arrival is unknown. Another opinion is that not committing to arrival dates is going to hurt them in gaining commitments from top players to begin with...

**scoreboard** · 03-30-2015, 10:17 PM