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NCAA watcher
04-10-2015, 05:52 AM
Ha, ha, ha! Chuck's "Fallacy of Hockey East Supremacy" thread! Great timing!

But, Eichel is a Calipari-style one-and-done player, right?

Yes, and Quinn is bringing in the USHLs 4,5,13,17 scorers (you remember my favorite stat about UNH having one single top 40 USHL scorer over the past 5 years?)

He also is bringing the national programs second line winger (central scouting first round/second round rating) and second pair defenseman.

And after that David Farrance, the next Keith Shattenkirk, and after that, the next Eichel, Jake Wise.

They will be atop HE for the next decade.

e.cat
04-10-2015, 05:57 AM
Wanna elaborate �� ?!? Sigh...


Maybe after I stop banging my head against the wall;) Somewhat tongue in cheek reference to the ongoing "what ifs" of UNH hockey!! The scars that Sonar talks about.

There was a young guy that I used to see at UNH hockey games all the time, both home and away. That young guy turned into to an old guy and then sadly I didn't see him at games anymore. I think he was involved with the Friends of UNH Hockey early on because he looked vaguely familiar from my days as a student at UNH. I spoke with him once in the lobby of the Sheraton Hotel in Burlington, VT in the 90's where UNH was away set to play UVM in a Friday/Saturday two game set. He was excited to talk about UNH hockey with me like most UNH fans I have spoken with over the years that I don't know from Adam! When the conversation was over and we parted ways I walked away thinking to myself, that guy is a long time loyal UNH fan and I hope that UNH can win the big one for him and the rest of the old long time UNH fans. I had time on my side then and was convinced UNH would do it in my lifetime. It didn't happen for him though and we are all still waiting for it to happen in our lifetime!

wildcatdc
04-10-2015, 08:26 AM
Maybe after I stop banging my head against the wall;) Somewhat tongue in cheek reference to the ongoing "what ifs" of UNH hockey!! The scars that Sonar talks about.

There was a young guy that I used to see at UNH hockey games all the time, both home and away. That young guy turned into to an old guy and then sadly I didn't see him at games anymore. I think he was involved with the Friends of UNH Hockey early on because he looked vaguely familiar from my days as a student at UNH. I spoke with him once in the lobby of the Sheraton Hotel in Burlington, VT in the 90's where UNH was away set to play UVM in a Friday/Saturday two game set. He was excited to talk about UNH hockey with me like most UNH fans I have spoken with over the years that I don't know from Adam! When the conversation was over and we parted ways I walked away thinking to myself, that guy is a long time loyal UNH fan and I hope that UNH can win the big one for him and the rest of the old long time UNH fans. I had time on my side then and was convinced UNH would do it in my lifetime. It didn't happen for him though and we are all still waiting for it to happen in our lifetime!

Jim Croce never wrote anything this tear-jerking. Cmon e.cat, hope springs eternal!! 😀

Chuck Murray
04-10-2015, 08:28 AM
No, I was too busy noticing that every coach and assistant has hair, non-grey. Sadly, even the gold standard of class - York- is losing recruiting battles to the young Turk.

Chuck, I may have to adjust my horizon.
http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?110184-The-Fallacy-of-HE-quot-Supremacy-quot-BC-The-Seven-Dwarfs-and-The-Least-of-the-East&p=5956321&viewfull=1#post5956321

You very well may have to, 'Watcher. :) Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'm pulling for BU. I like the PC program, and its long-time fans are very deserving. But Coach Parker's teams in the '70's made me a secondary BU follower, so even if he's not coaching anymore, it's hard to ignore the old pull. Plus the uniform colors are all about DRW, and that's the new Gordie Howe currently wearing the #9 jersey for them, isn't it? :D ;) Long and short, whoever wins tomorrow night, I'm happy for them. It's been a fascinating postseason, eh?

Chuck Murray
04-10-2015, 08:40 AM
There was a young guy that I used to see at UNH hockey games all the time, both home and away. That young guy turned into to an old guy and then sadly I didn't see him at games anymore. I think he was involved with the Friends of UNH Hockey early on because he looked vaguely familiar from my days as a student at UNH. I spoke with him once in the lobby of the Sheraton Hotel in Burlington, VT in the 90's where UNH was away set to play UVM in a Friday/Saturday two game set. He was excited to talk about UNH hockey with me like most UNH fans I have spoken with over the years that I don't know from Adam! When the conversation was over and we parted ways I walked away thinking to myself, that guy is a long time loyal UNH fan and I hope that UNH can win the big one for him and the rest of the old long time UNH fans. I had time on my side then and was convinced UNH would do it in my lifetime. It didn't happen for him though and we are all still waiting for it to happen in our lifetime!

Nice post, e.cat. There are plenty of disaffected UNH fans still out there but no longer attending games. Some won't come back, while some (sadly) can't ever come back. It's those who *might* come back that UNH needs to try to reach again. But that's going to take a concerted effort by folks well beyond Coach Umile and his staff.

We're well beyond the "Build it and they will come" era of excitement with the *new* Whittemore Center.

Instead, we will be seeing the "Build it and they will come" era across the street with West Stadium and the football program. And that's very much deserved. But to be a truly successful and visionary AD, that means more than taking credit for Coach MacDonnell's success, building him a new stadium, and coasting on the resulting goodwill into your retirement years.

The slippage of the UNH Hockey program was all on your watch too, so time to get behind Hockey and return it to prominence, on and off the ice. And if Coach Herrion can push his team further, maybe your former all-purpose arena can return to that status once again, and then you will have well and truly earned your corn. JMHO.

e.cat
04-10-2015, 10:04 AM
Nice post, e.cat. There are plenty of disaffected UNH fans still out there but no longer attending games. Some won't come back, while some (sadly) can't ever come back. It's those who *might* come back that UNH needs to try to reach again. But that's going to take a concerted effort by folks well beyond Coach Umile and his staff.

We're well beyond the "Build it and they will come" era of excitement with the *new* Whittemore Center.

Instead, we will be seeing the "Build it and they will come" era across the street with West Stadium and the football program. And that's very much deserved. But to be a truly successful and visionary AD, that means more than taking credit for Coach MacDonnell's success, building him a new stadium, and coasting on the resulting goodwill into your retirement years.

The slippage of the UNH Hockey program was all on your watch too, so time to get behind Hockey and return it to prominence, on and off the ice. And if Coach Herrion can push his team further, maybe your former all-purpose arena can return to that status once again, and then you will have well and truly earned your corn. JMHO.

Thanks Chuck:)


Jim Croce never wrote anything this tear-jerking. Cmon e.cat, hope springs eternal!! ��

My wife tells me often that I need therapy;) Maybe she's got my numbah!!!:D

goblue
04-10-2015, 10:05 AM
PROVISO: (None of the following should be construed as a reflection on the current players and I hope they are given the tools that they will need to lead the team into a new era. I appreciate their skills.)

A few days ago I noticed one of my grandkids picking at a newly formed scar on his arm – a recent cut. Of course in the knowledgeable way of all grandfathers I said, “Probably best not to pick at that.”
...
In the final analyses, I can say that there have been moments of great joy in watching UNH Hockey over the years. It is also observable that a considerable amount of scar tissue has accumulated and those scars now greatly influence the fan relationship to UNH Hockey. Wounds of any kind can only be reduced by change and the tincture of time. In the meantime I will continue to enjoy college hockey, today's Frozen Four, and I will continue to wonder.

It all brings me back to what my grandson said about my comment, concerning not picking at his scab. He said, “It’s hard not to.”



You very well may have to, 'Watcher. :) Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'm pulling for BU. I like the PC program, and its long-time fans are very deserving. But Coach Parker's teams in the '70's made me a secondary BU follower, so even if he's not coaching anymore, it's hard to ignore the old pull. Plus the uniform colors are all about DRW, and that's the new Gordie Howe currently wearing the #9 jersey for them, isn't it? :D ;) Long and short, whoever wins tomorrow night, I'm happy for them. It's been a fascinating postseason, eh?

I haven't posted here for probably a year, maybe more (nothing to say, really, or when I've had something, resisted the urge.) But the above two comments are related, and I wanted to offer my perspective.

I'm one of the older UNH fans as well ('73-'77.) I attended UNH games regularly -- starting at Snively, and with the exception of most of the '80's, all the way to a couple years ago at the Whit. As is true with all longtime UNH fans, I have experienced the ups and downs: expectations of a title when the team was consistently among the best, followed by "maybe next year" when they inevitably faltered.

I don't have wounds, or scabs, or scars -- and this is in all likelihood due to the passing of time and growing older. It's probably better to describe my condition as "disaffected." I'm happy for the team when they win, but no longer feel upset or angry when they lose (except that game at UML last fall -- grrrr!) I'm still a fan of UNH, and of college hockey in general. Since I don't believe any longer that a title is just a year away, I have no expectations -- I'll be delighted when they show signs that the mountaintop is near, and ecstatic when (if?) they finally reach the peak and plant the flag. Until then, I've been living vicariously as a fan of the Yales and Unions and now Providence College -- teams that, like UNH, have (or never had) won the biggest game. Time has also mellowed me enough to take no petty satisfaction in the fact that UNH handled both PC and BU well this year -- ultimately, it means nothing -- it doesn't add materially to UNH's season (it was what it was) or take away from the finalists' success. Except for the champion, any team can play the "woulda/coulda/shoulda" game.

(I won't be unhappy if BU wins tomorrow night. In either case, it's yet another demonstration of Hockey East's dominance this century. I had the chance to shake Coach Parker's hand as we were leaving the HE semis at the Garden. As I told him, he was the coach everybody loved to hate and call names behind his back, but his accomplishments as a coach had to be respected. He told me that they always had fun when they played at UNH, win or lose.)

Go Friars! (who I hope can come up with a better mascot than the Grim Reaper with a hockey stick instead of a scythe.)

And now, I return to radio silent.

C-H-C
04-10-2015, 11:12 AM
Over the last several years, BC-Envy was popular in some circles. Now it looks like BU-Envy is gaining in popularity. In my experience, going back to 1970, UNH has always been the underdog. Even in 1999 and 2003, the only times they advanced to the NCAA Championship game, they were up against programs - Maine and Minnesota - who had won one or more National Championships. I'm more like "goblue" in that I enjoy rooting for the underdog.

In my opinion, the chances of UNH successfully recruiting Maxim Letunov, Bobo Carpenter, Jacob Forsbacka-Karlsson, Kiefer Bellows, Clayton Keller or Charlie McAvoy instead of BU were slim. UNH rarely out-competes BU or BC for top recruits who are intent on getting to the NHL as soon as they can. That was true when Jack Parker was at the BU helm and it will continue to be true with the Quinn group. That's another way that UNH is similar to programs like Union and Providence. Occasionally, UNH will successfully recruit players like Pesce, Eiserman, and Foegele who have a pretty good chance of making it in the NHL, but those are the exceptions. I've learned to be OK with that. As fans of Minnesota, North Dakota and Michigan might admit, having a roster with many NHL draft picks does not guarantee a National Championship or a trip to the Frozen Four.

Would I prefer that UNH attract 2 or 3 can't-miss NHL picks to enroll every year? Well sure. But I think that is highly unlikely to happen over the next decade or probably ever. Over the last 4 decades, the vast majority of former UNH players who had a chance of making it in the NHL did not succeed.

For UNH to advance to the Frozen Four, I think they will have to depend on a blend of players not unlike Union and Providence. A few 4th round or higher NHL picks, several very good players like Poturalski, Kelleher, and Cleland who were not drafted, an outstanding goalie who gets hot at playoff time, and role players who excel by the time they are seniors. Once a team gets to the Frozen Four, anything is possible.

A footnote: I haven't experienced petty satisfaction knowing that UNH beat the three Frozen Four teams they played this season. I do think it is important that the UNH freshmen and sophomores now realize that being competitive against, and even beating, the very top teams is doable.

HockeyRef
04-10-2015, 12:40 PM
Over the last several years, BC-Envy was popular in some circles. Now it looks like BU-Envy is gaining in popularity. In my experience, going back to 1970, UNH has always been the underdog. Even in 1999 and 2003, the only times they advanced to the NCAA Championship game, they were up against programs - Maine and Minnesota - who had won one or more National Championships. I'm more like "goblue" in that I enjoy rooting for the underdog.

In my opinion, the chances of UNH successfully recruiting Maxim Letunov, Bobo Carpenter, Jacob Forsbacka-Karlsson, Kiefer Bellows, Clayton Keller or Charlie McAvoy instead of BU were slim. UNH rarely out-competes BU or BC for top recruits who are intent on getting to the NHL as soon as they can. That was true when Jack Parker was at the BU helm and it will continue to be true with the Quinn group. That's another way that UNH is similar to programs like Union and Providence. Occasionally, UNH will successfully recruit players like Pesce, Eiserman, and Foegele who have a pretty good chance of making it in the NHL, but those are the exceptions. I've learned to be OK with that. As fans of Minnesota, North Dakota and Michigan might admit, having a roster with many NHL draft picks does not guarantee a National Championship or a trip to the Frozen Four.

Would I prefer that UNH attract 2 or 3 can't-miss NHL picks to enroll every year? Well sure. But I think that is highly unlikely to happen over the next decade or probably ever. Over the last 4 decades, the vast majority of former UNH players who had a chance of making it in the NHL did not succeed.

For UNH to advance to the Frozen Four, I think they will have to depend on a blend of players not unlike Union and Providence. A few 4th round or higher NHL picks, several very good players like Poturalski, Kelleher, and Cleland who were not drafted, an outstanding goalie who gets hot at playoff time, and role players who excel by the time they are seniors. Once a team gets to the Frozen Four, anything is possible.

A footnote: I haven't experienced petty satisfaction knowing that UNH beat the three Frozen Four teams they played this season. I do think it is important that the UNH freshmen and sophomores now realize that being competitive against, and even beating, the very top teams is doable.

Good points Mike and others today! A good perspective about what UNH is perenially up against and also how important it is for the team to realize on any given day they can play with anyone. This was definitely a lesson realized by the team this season. Not sure about feeling petty about those wins rather than the satisfaction of knowing we could be in the hunt. A better first half and we would have been in Manchester at least. Played with the pairwise simulator just for fun and yes it could have been possible...
So what does all of this translate to for me as a fan? Am hoping we continue to bring in some decent players and coach em up using examples like Union and PC; not BU's recruiting machine per se. (Though you will not hear me complaining if we catch an Eichel 😉)

If it can happen for them it can happen for us. And yeah I'm not naive as to what it must take to get to Saturday nights game...just saying it's possible and there is not one single element (certainly having loads of NHL bound players is not a guarantee as CHC pointed out) that is the be all and end all. Hockey...greatest sport ever!'

Snively65
04-10-2015, 12:49 PM
I haven't posted here for probably a year, maybe more (nothing to say, really, or when I've had something, resisted the urge.) But the above two comments are related, and I wanted to offer my perspective.

I'm one of the older UNH fans as well ('73-'77.) I attended UNH games regularly -- starting at Snively, and with the exception of most of the '80's, all the way to a couple years ago at the Whit. As is true with all longtime UNH fans, I have experienced the ups and downs: expectations of a title when the team was consistently among the best, followed by "maybe next year" when they inevitably faltered.

I don't have wounds, or scabs, or scars -- and this is in all likelihood due to the passing of time and growing older. It's probably better to describe my condition as "disaffected." I'm happy for the team when they win, but no longer feel upset or angry when they lose (except that game at UML last fall -- grrrr!) I'm still a fan of UNH, and of college hockey in general. Since I don't believe any longer that a title is just a year away, I have no expectations -- I'll be delighted when they show signs that the mountaintop is near, and ecstatic when (if?) they finally reach the peak and plant the flag. Until then, I've been living vicariously as a fan of the Yales and Unions and now Providence College -- teams that, like UNH, have (or never had) won the biggest game. Time has also mellowed me enough to take no petty satisfaction in the fact that UNH handled both PC and BU well this year -- ultimately, it means nothing -- it doesn't add materially to UNH's season (it was what it was) or take away from the finalists' success. Except for the champion, any team can play the "woulda/coulda/shoulda" game.

(I won't be unhappy if BU wins tomorrow night. In either case, it's yet another demonstration of Hockey East's dominance this century. I had the chance to shake Coach Parker's hand as we were leaving the HE semis at the Garden. As I told him, he was the coach everybody loved to hate and call names behind his back, but his accomplishments as a coach had to be respected. He told me that they always had fun when they played at UNH, win or lose.)

Go Friars! (who I hope can come up with a better mascot than the Grim Reaper with a hockey stick instead of a scythe.)

And now, I return to radio silent.

Nice post coming out of the blue, goblue.

I might only argue that HEA has shared dominance with the former WCHA this century, with them leading us 7 to 6 in NCs and 23 to 21 in FF teams (remember when WCHA had all four teams at the Columbus FF in 2005?).

Anyway, I am pulling for a first time NC for the third year in a row, with the hope that I will live long enough to see UNH join those ranks (I began following UNH hockey around 1960 at the outdoor Batchelder Rink; and no, I was not yet a UNH student then). :-)

Darius
04-10-2015, 01:01 PM
http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?112848-The-Frozen-Four&p=6148061&viewfull=1#post6148061

"The best game I saw played against US all season, out of conference, was by New Hampshire on New Year's Eve, here in Omaha. The 8th place team in Hockey East."

HockeyRef
04-10-2015, 01:28 PM
http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?112848-The-Frozen-Four&p=6148061&viewfull=1#post6148061

"The best game I saw played against US all season, out of conference, was by New Hampshire on New Year's Eve, here in Omaha. The 8th place team in Hockey East."

Well there you go... some validation of sorts and case in point. Go 'Cats!!! That was a great game for the 'Cats ; watched it as I waited for my Bruins to play (and eventually lose to the Leafs ��) at the TD on my phone. Made my weekend. On any given day...

For Snively65 your post reminds me of the Red Sox fans who were hoping to see the day their beloved Sox would win it all...after waiting 87 years it did happen. Then, 4 years later, again! (if I have my baseball right). I hope for all of you who have watched, believed, left and/or returned, and for those who just plain stay with the team year in and year out, still getting a thrill when the team skates out, that your patience is indeed rewarded with the NC. At the end of last year's banquet U2's "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" was played with the NCAA trophy in the background. Like to think that it will be the 'Cats turn, on any given day!

Snively65
04-10-2015, 03:45 PM
Well there you go... some validation of sorts and case in point. Go 'Cats!!! That was a great game for the 'Cats ; watched it as I waited for my Bruins to play (and eventually lose to the Leafs ��) at the TD on my phone. Made my weekend. On any given day...

For Snively65 your post reminds me of the Red Sox fans who were hoping to see the day their beloved Sox would win it all...after waiting 87 years it did happen. Then, 4 years later, again! (if I have my baseball right). I hope for all of you who have watched, believed, left and/or returned, and for those who just plain stay with the team year in and year out, still getting a thrill when the team skates out, that your patience is indeed rewarded with the NC. At the end of last year's banquet U2's "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" was played with the NCAA trophy in the background. Like to think that it will be the 'Cats turn, on any given day!

Actually, 3 years later, again, and then 6 years later, again. :-)

But, yes, as I have posted at least twice before on past threads, when Vanek put that game out of reach in Buffalo, the Michigan State fan next to me said that my team would win a NC when the Red Sox win a WS, which the Sox did about 18 months later. Also, the statisticians were looking closely at the mortality rates of elderly males in the New England area for several months after October 2004.

GoUNH
04-10-2015, 04:28 PM
So I saw my boss today and he handed me 2 loge seats for tomorrow's game. Working for a BU alum can have its perks.

Chuck Murray
04-10-2015, 08:03 PM
A footnote: I haven't experienced petty satisfaction knowing that UNH beat the three Frozen Four teams they played this season. I do think it is important that the UNH freshmen and sophomores now realize that being competitive against, and even beating, the very top teams is doable.

Bingo. It's also nice to know that next year's juniors and sophs have a baseline history of some post-season success (if only at HE level), and have an expectation - not just a hope - of making it back to the Garden in March. That hadn't been the case for a few seasons in between there. Now they've gotta get back into the 16 team NCAA tourney field on a regular basis, which is a piece of institutional knowledge and experience that disappears entirely from the playing roster if they don't get back into that mix very soon.

Snively65
04-10-2015, 08:48 PM
Bingo. It's also nice to know that next year's juniors and sophs have a baseline history of some post-season success (if only at HE level), and have an expectation - not just a hope - of making it back to the Garden in March. That hadn't been the case for a few seasons in between there. Now they've gotta get back into the 16 team NCAA tourney field on a regular basis, which is a piece of institutional knowledge and experience that disappears entirely from the playing roster if they don't get back into that mix very soon.

Exactly; more support for us Pom Pom fans. :-)

Need more OOC wins against some good teams next fall; Clarkson, St Lawrence, Union, and Dartmouth ain't gonna cut it.

HockeyRef
04-11-2015, 09:13 AM
Exactly; more support for us Pom Pom fans. :-)

Need more OOC wins against some good teams next fall; Clarkson, St Lawrence, Union, and Dartmouth ain't gonna cut it.

Have you seen the schedule? You are absolutely right...to earn the right to be in the top 16 that's what you have to do. Not to mention do better in your own league. Wish and hope UNH plays more HE games early on unlike this past season but maybe that doesn't matter?

In other news, Grayson D had a good night last night with 2 assists and MANY other opps to score himself. Here's one of the assists as he was featured in the Iowa Wild PP (it's not a good vid but you get it...haha!) Also in that game for OKC was Joey LaLeggia who had a lot of minutes. No checks to the head tho...:p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QSDYPtyumc

Also Nick Sorkin had a big night with the Hamilton BDogs as he scored 2 (and the GWG):

http://www.hamiltonbulldogs.com/pressbox/news/?article_id=1177

Nice to see our alums finding success!

HockeyRef
04-11-2015, 09:49 AM
OK gang...big game today with 2 HE teams in the 'ship!! Anyone know the last time that happened? Could look it up, too lazy...:p Sooooo who are you 'rooting' for, and who do you think will win?

moi: Rooting for PC, think BU will win 3-2. Just a guess...;)

cavbim
04-11-2015, 11:37 AM
OK gang...big game today with 2 HE teams in the 'ship!! Anyone know the last time that happened? Could look it up, too lazy...:p Sooooo who are you 'rooting' for, and who do you think will win?

moi: Rooting for PC, think BU will win 3-2. Just a guess...;)

'99 when you guys faced Maine

C-H-C
04-11-2015, 12:10 PM
@UNHRecruitsCHC: Former #UNHStar @StevieMoses22 will play for Team USA at the World Championships next month: http://t.co/D9rvcemZrC @PredsNHL @juniorbruins