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C-H-C
03-30-2015, 01:55 PM
"UNH Defeated Three Final Four Teams This Season" (http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2015/03/unh-defeated-three-final-four-teams.html)

sonar
03-30-2015, 02:13 PM
"UNH Defeated Three Final Four Teams This Season" (http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2015/03/unh-defeated-three-final-four-teams.html)

Isn't that just great ..... they also call the regular season trophy the Umile Cup .......

Nifty16
03-30-2015, 02:44 PM
Isn't that just great ..... they also call the regular season trophy the Umile Cup .......

Heaven forbid someone posts something positive.

HockeyRef
03-30-2015, 02:57 PM
UNH didn't beat BU when it really mattered. Umile is not capable of teaching these players how to win the big game because he has never been there.
This is not a coincidence; these two teams are going in the right direction. UNH is stagnant at best.

Um...correct me if I'm wrong, but has Nate Leaman won the "big game"? Has David Quinn? To be honest I don't know these coaches pedigrees. I do think Coach U has been in some big games, where he has won and lost (with the exception of the NC) a few...Who doesn't want to be involved in the FF excitement? It's hard this time of year, to see teams that we competed with (and won) go forward. Wasn't going to happen this year not with all that went down but they did much better than anyone here thought they would...

Truth be told the goalie situation at the beginning of the year took a bigger toll than anyone wanted to let on, IMHO. They overcame that, put together a great push at the end. (please, I don't care 'who they played' for that win streak so save it. If BU had an 8 game win streak no one would bring up who they played.) Heard the team is feeling down right now, watching other teams go forward, but they are hopeful for the future. That New Hampshire article had great stuff from Ty Kelleher; he is a positive young man and I hope he gets the C!

I asked Chanter and McNicholas about how they felt about next year at the Merrimack RS games and they said they "could not wait" to "get their shot" at it. Hope they are hungry, all of them. That is part of it, really, really wanting it. And having a lights out GK like a Jon Gillies does help. That is something I do believe, we could have, in DT. Really excited to see the McIntyre/O'Connor battle at the semi final game...gonna be classic!

I'd like to think we are moving in the right direction, although replacing Pesce concerns me. But then so did replacing TvR. As far as beating BU when it mattered? I guess that's a fair point. Guess I would have to say BU is a better team than UNH, plain and simple, but they gave them a game and every BU fan knows that UNH played them **** tough at the HE semi. That's the reality of it. Still say they had a great season. And yes, as a fan I do want more from them. None of us thought we'd move past PC and we did. Got to the Garden. Not much more you could ask for from this team they gave it all they had. Looking forward to renewing my season tix for next year!

NCAA watcher
03-30-2015, 03:01 PM
Isn't that just great ..... they also call the regular season trophy the Umile Cup .......

This also could be a big final four, as UNH almost had one of the Hobey finalists, Laleggia.

So many "three degrees from actual success" ;)

skyraider0609
03-30-2015, 05:28 PM
Heaven forbid someone posts something positive.

Umm..the football team's home opener is September 26th???

JB
03-30-2015, 05:38 PM
Umile is not capable of teaching these players how to win the big game because he has never been there.

This is b.s. and you should know better.

I am not saying Umile is the greatest ever or even should stay. But your logic is laughable.

JB
03-30-2015, 05:44 PM
This also could be a big final four, as UNH almost had one of the Hobey finalists, Laleggia.

So many "three degrees from actual success" ;)

This is a problem, he is/was a great college hockey player and missing on him and Vecchione were bone headed recruiting moves. Pro coaches and GMs get the ax for talent aquition gafs like these.

HockeyRef
03-30-2015, 05:47 PM
Umm..the football team's home opener is September 26th???

And fortunately the hockey exhibition game is the very next weekend! Good times!! 😉

HockeyRef
03-30-2015, 05:55 PM
This is a problem, he is/was a great college hockey player and missing on him and Vecchione were bone headed recruiting moves. Pro coaches and GMs get the ax for talent aquition gafs like these.

He's the kid from Denver who got ejected yesterday for that hit to the head?

Funny that as I was watching that game yesterday it came to mind the 2013 Reg in Manchester it was Denver player Nick Shore who took out Kevin G same foul....we played without him and Grayson D in the Final (concussion same game?) lost to UML 2-0 who incidentally has had our number ever since...Actually that's not so funny 😔

Ps Nick Shore is enjoying a pro career with the Kings and scored his first pro goal a couple of games ago...

zoofer
03-30-2015, 06:35 PM
Nifty, you know this is the way "fans" react when they aren't happy...look at the threads and comments for Eaves, and Berenson, and Blasio et al.....yes some have a NC to their pedigree but not all.....it's all about "what have you done for me lately" unfortunately....

Chuck Murray
03-30-2015, 06:35 PM
This is a problem, he is/was a great college hockey player and missing on (Laleggia) and Vecchione were bone headed recruiting moves. Pro coaches and GMs get the ax for talent aquition gafs like these.

So true. BTW I'm almost afraid to check the UMaine thread, the diehards must be suicidal with Monty's success at DU, and Red's failure to even match the later years of the Whitehead regime. As bad as we may think we have it, it could be worse ... then again, at least they've got some warm memories in the trophy case (*1993 and 1999) that UNH lacks.

And good point from 'Ref ... before we anoint Quinn or Leaman (and lord knows I've espoused on Coach Bazin's behalf a few times), let's see if they can win the big one first. Quinn at least has a HE Tourney trophy now. I still think they'll come up short. I'm seeing a UND vs. UNO title game for the Dean Blais Trophy. :eek:

C-H-C
03-30-2015, 06:38 PM
The pining over the one that got away - LaLeggia reneges on commitment to UNH then commits to Denver - has been overblown in my opinion. Yes, LaLeggia turned out to be a very good college hockey player and he may turn into a very good NHL player - UNH coaches correctly gauged his potential. It's also fair to question his judgement in probably the most important game of his career to date. With 10 minutes left in the East Regional Final and the score tied 1-1, Denver needed its star to make big plays. Instead, this is what happened:

https://youtu.be/4mm9JOZWFrU

LaLeggia was kicked out of the game for contact to the head and 4 minutes into the subsequent power play, Providence scored the game-winning goal.

There's also more to the story about UNH "losing" LaLeggia. After verbally accepting a scholarship offer from UNH, he decided in September 2010 to renege on his commitment. It's interesting that at the same time, another British Columbia native also playing in the BCHL - Grayson Downing - apparently did not have any problems with UNH coaches who he had committed to in July, 2008. Two months after LaLeggia backed out on his commitment, UNH offered scholarships to Tyler Kelleher and Brett Pesce and they verbally committed to come to UNH:

http://www.ushr.com/news/20101228/3898?label=Two-for-the-Wildcats

It seems to me that UNH probably made good use of some or all of the scholarship money that had been committed to LaLeggia. In addition, Trevor van Riemsdyk had committed to UNH in January, 2010 and was having a breakout season in the EJHL. Can you imagine either Pesce or TvR getting a contact to the head, major penalty with a trip to the Frozen Four on the line? Maybe, but I don't think so.

scoreboard
03-30-2015, 06:54 PM
The pining over the one that got away - LaLeggia reneges on commitment to UNH then commits to Denver - has been overblown in my opinion. Yes, LaLeggia turned out to be a very good college hockey player and he may turn into a very good NHL player - UNH coaches correctly gauged his potential. It's also fair to question his judgement in probably the most important game of his career to date. With 10 minutes left in the East Regional Final and the scored tied 1-1, Denver needed its star to make big plays. Instead, this is what happened:

https://youtu.be/4mm9JOZWFrU

LaLeggia was kicked out of the game for contact to the head and 4 minutes into the subsequent power play, Providence scored the game-winning goal.

There's also more to the story about UNH "losing" LaLeggia. After verbally accepting a scholarship offer from UNH, he decided in September 2010 to renege on his commitment. It's interesting that at the same time, another British Columbia native also playing in the BCHL - Grayson Downing - apparently did not have any problems with UNH coaches who he had committed to in July, 2008. Two months after LaLeggia backed out on his commitment, UNH offered scholarships to Tyler Kelleher and Brett Pesce and they verbally committed to come to UNH:

http://www.ushr.com/news/20101228/3898?label=Two-for-the-Wildcats

In my opinion, UNH made good use of some or all of the scholarship money that had been committed to LaLeggia. In addition, Trevor van Riemsdyk had committed to UNH in January, 2010. Can you imagine either Pesce or TvR getting a contact to the head, major penalty with a trip to the Frozen Four on the line? Maybe, but I don't think so.

Are you saying UNH could only offer Kelleher and Pesce scholarships because LaLeggia backed out? Also, to question LaLeggia's value over that penalty is a bit extreme. UNH would have benefited had he played for the Cats.

NCAA watcher
03-30-2015, 07:04 PM
The pining over the one that got away - LaLeggia reneges on commitment to UNH then commits to Denver - has been overblown in my opinion. Yes, LaLeggia turned out to be a very good college hockey player and he may turn into a very good NHL player - UNH coaches correctly gauged his potential. It's also fair to question his judgement in probably the most important game of his career to date. With 10 minutes left in the East Regional Final and the scored tied 1-1, Denver needed its star to make big plays.

So, you are using a single questionable penalty in one game, to dismiss his entire career -- consting of a College Hockey News NCAA Freshman of the Year award, two time NCHC defenseman of the year, and a Hobey Baker finalist -- and justify UNH's complete failure in dealing with him in a manner that he considered fair?


There's also more to the story about UNH "losing" LaLeggia. After verbally accepting a scholarship offer from UNH, he decided in September 2010 to renege on his commitment. It's interesting that at the same time, another British Columbia native also playing in the BCHL - Grayson Downing - apparently did not have any problems with UNH coaches who he had committed to in July, 2008.

So Laleggia "reneged" and "backed out" but you leave out what precipitated that decision: UNH deferred him from his intended entry date of 2010. When he committed in 2008 he was firmly set for 2010, just as Vecchione was firmly set for 2012. I know you have written many times that players are not "promised" entry dates. But you have two players who seemingly concluded that UNH's decision to defer them was out of the norms of what they expected so that they no longer wanted to go to UNH -- even if that meant still spending another year in juniors.

Apart from the apparent lack of candor or basic communications skills evidenced by those two instances, you have a more fundamental failure to evaluate talent in making the decision to defer the players. Laleggia was a BCHL all-star, and being a 4 year al-star suggests his talent level was ready at 18. Similarly, Vecchione's success (compared to the players UNH decided were "ready") surely does not serve as a testament to UNH's evaluation skills.

Lastly, I see no connection between Kelleher and Pesce committing after Laleggia went elsewhere.



In my opinion, UNH made good use of some or all of the scholarship money that had been committed to LaLeggia.

Pure guessing to justify bad decisions. How come you don't list Dan Correale and Dylan Maller's October 2010 commitments about how good UNH was to reallocating the Laleggia monies?

scoreboard
03-30-2015, 07:22 PM
It seems to me that UNH probably made good use of some or all of the scholarship money that had been committed to LaLeggia. In addition, Trevor van Riemsdyk had committed to UNH in January, 2010 and was having a breakout season in the EJHL. Can you imagine either Pesce or TvR getting a contact to the head, major penalty with a trip to the Frozen Four on the line? Maybe, but I don't think so.

Thank God LaLeggia didn't come to UNH and cost them a trip to the FF with a dumb penalty during the last four years.

Snively65
03-30-2015, 07:45 PM
Um...correct me if I'm wrong, but has Nate Leaman won the "big game"? Has David Quinn? To be honest I don't know these coaches pedigrees. I do think Coach U has been in some big games, where he has won and lost (with the exception of the NC) a few...Who doesn't want to be involved in the FF excitement? It's hard this time of year, to see teams that we competed with (and won) go forward. Wasn't going to happen this year not with all that went down but they did much better than anyone here thought they would...

Truth be told the goalie situation at the beginning of the year took a bigger toll than anyone wanted to let on, IMHO. They overcame that, put together a great push at the end. (please, I don't care 'who they played' for that win streak so save it. If BU had an 8 game win streak no one would bring up who they played.) Heard the team is feeling down right now, watching other teams go forward, but they are hopeful for the future. That New Hampshire article had great stuff from Ty Kelleher; he is a positive young man and I hope he gets the C!

I asked Chanter and McNicholas about how they felt about next year at the Merrimack RS games and they said they "could not wait" to "get their shot" at it. Hope they are hungry, all of them. That is part of it, really, really wanting it. And having a lights out GK like a Jon Gillies does help. That is something I do believe, we could have, in DT. Really excited to see the McIntyre/O'Connor battle at the semi final game...gonna be classic!

I'd like to think we are moving in the right direction, although replacing Pesce concerns me. But then so did replacing TvR. As far as beating BU when it mattered? I guess that's a fair point. Guess I would have to say BU is a better team than UNH, plain and simple, but they gave them a game and every BU fan knows that UNH played them **** tough at the HE semi. That's the reality of it. Still say they had a great season. And yes, as a fan I do want more from them. None of us thought we'd move past PC and we did. Got to the Garden. Not much more you could ask for from this team they gave it all they had. Looking forward to renewing my season tix for next year!

Good post, Ref. But, probably wasted on all of voices of doom here. :-)

Scott
03-30-2015, 08:07 PM
UNH didn't beat BU when it really mattered. Umile is not capable of teaching these players how to win the big game because he has never been there.
This is not a coincidence; these two teams are going in the right direction. UNH is stagnant at best.

I was wondering, since you've just decided to share your infinite wisdom in the post-season...did you even attend a UNH game this year?

C-H-C
03-30-2015, 08:22 PM
So, you are using a single questionable penalty in one game, to dismiss his entire career?
No, as I said, LaLeggia is a very good college hockey player.



When he committed in 2008 he was firmly set for 2010, just as Vecchione was firmly set for 2012. I know you have written many times that players are not "promised" entry dates.
I don't know what "firmly set" means in this context. If Josh Ciocco is to be believed, then UNH coaches don't promise an enrollment date to recruits. I learned this from posts that Ciocco wrote a couple years ago on the Forum so I think it bears repeating from time to time (just as others repeatedly cite LaLeggia and Vecchione as examples of supposed incompetence on the part of UNH coaches).


Apart from the apparent lack of candor or basic communications skills evidenced by those two instances, you have a more fundamental failure to evaluate talent in making the decision to defer the players. Laleggia was a BCHL all-star, and being a 4 year al-star suggests his talent level was ready at 18. Similarly, Vecchione's success (compared to the players UNH decided were "ready") surely does not serve as a testament to UNH's evaluation skills.
Determining whether a player in junior hockey is "ready" to make the jump to college hockey is far from being an exact science. I think some would argue that playing an extra year in juniors prepared LaLeggia and Vecchione to excel as freshmen. Andrew Poturalski and his coach at Cedar Rapids frankly admitted that an extra year in the USHL was the correct decision for him.


Lastly, I see no connection between Kelleher and Pesce committing after Laleggia went elsewhere.
I think there might have been.


How come you don't list Dan Correale and Dylan Maller's October 2010 commitments about how good UNH was to reallocating the Laleggia monies?
So in your opinion, neither Correale or Maller were deserving of scholarship money? I haven't written either of them off as "bad investments" of scholarship money.

NCAA watcher
03-30-2015, 08:43 PM
Ushr, which got its information from UNH coaches, wrote2/19/08


UNH Scores a Pair of Blueliners


UNH has received commitments from a pair of defensemen in Joey LaLeggia of the Vancouver NorthWest Giants (Midget AAA) for the fall of 10; and Brett Kostolansky of Shattuck-St. Marys for the fall of 09.

LaLeggia is small hes 58, 140 lbs., but hes also just 15 so hell add some height and fill out. His father is 61. Hes an offensive defenseman who is the top scoring d-man in the BC midget league with 32 points in 36 games. We got to see him recently when his team made a visit to New England and he struck us as a kid who could be running the UNH power play not long after he arrives on campus. Hes dynamic, and shares some of the same qualities as US Under-18 Team defenseman Dave Warsofsky, though the latter has quicker feet.


Shortly after UNH started deferring recruits is when the new mantra of no-promises became the norm