Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

[IndianaBadger1995]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

The BB and hockey don't compare. Hockey you play 19 guys on a regular basis, BB 7 to 8 (and ride 5-6 heavy if needed). And great hockey players can play a regular shift, they can be a star.

You completely missed the point. Underclassmen are supposed to be brought along slowly so they can acclimate to a higher level and "develop" into a better player. Remember how Turris struggled? Geoffrion had 2g 4a in 36 gp in his freshman year. Not every player is gonna be a star right away when they get to college. Not everyone can score 16g 29a like a Joe Pavelski in his first year. I think the trouble with Eaves isn't the system or the recruiting (except maybe class sizes), it's the players that leave early that have hurt him.

[burd]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

Conveniently overlooking the fact that UW Men's Varsity Eight Crew has 9 National titles but only ONE since 1990, aren't you?

Is fishing part of those tournaments?

[Almington]

You completely missed the point. Underclassmen are supposed to be brought along slowly so they can acclimate to a higher level and "develop" into a better player. Remember how Turris struggled? Geoffrion had 2g 4a in 36 gp in his freshman year. Not every player is gonna be a star right away when they get to college. Not everyone can score 16g 29a like a Joe Pavelski in his first year. I think the trouble with Eaves isn't the system or the recruiting (except maybe class sizes), it's the players that leave early that have hurt him.

Hogwash, what's killing UW is the almost criminal lack of development and production from the non-elite forwards who do stay 4 years. Far to often they seem to barely hit 10-15 goals over their UW career let alone in a season as uppercalssmen.

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

So can't they just run three lines? Or double shift a couple different guys on the 4th throughout the game?

I mean, our squirt B team is going to state and we only have 12 kids on the entire roster, including the goalie!!

One time my son's squirt b team played in the opening round of the St. tourney with 8 players. The manager screwed up with the birth certificates so the other 7 players could not play. We only lost 2-1, my kiddo was the goalie. It was a miracle we scored a goal in the first place, let alone with the reduced roster. The other stupid thing was we played our neighboring team and arch rival in the rink on 27th in Milwaukee and both teams are located in Dodge County (Beaver Dam and Waupun).

My point with the freshmen is some come ready and some don't, but the ones who come ready can play a regular shift. That does not happen in BB @ UW. Youth is not the biggest issue here. FYI Look at the women's team, 4 out of the 5 Fr. gals play a regular shift on the top 2 lines and D pairs.

I'd like to see Hughes and Ustaski not play so we can see what Hurley and Schuchuck bring to the table, if there are any games being broadcast, which I have not checked out yet.

[Gandalf the Red]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

How often does Bo Ryan start a freshman? How often does Bo Ryan rely on a freshman? It's almost NEVER! The point is you develop the froshies while the seniors carry the majority of the load. College hockey sucks in the fact that players tend to leave so darn early.

Just because Bo doesn't start freshman doesn't mean it isn't a regular occurrence in BB. Look at Kentucky, they almost ONLY start freshman, and they haven't lost yet. Bo has a special system, and unlike Eaves has been successful EVERY year he has been at UW, or UWM or UWP. I also think he would be the first person to take the blame if the basketball team was ever 2-18 in mid-February and not continue on with bull**** platitudes.

I don't buy this argument to the extent you want everyone else to believe it. I agree that freshman need to develop, but I'm sure if I spent 10 minutes I could find countless examples of freshmen tearing up NCAA hockey, this year and many many times in the past. minnesota, North Dakota, BC, they have impact freshman; we have people making excuses for our freshman never (or rarely) making an impact.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

Hogwash, what's killing UW is the almost criminal lack of development and production from the non-elite forwards who do stay 4 years. Far to often they seem to barely hit 10-15 goals over their UW career let alone in a season as uppercalssmen.

I kind of disagree with this idea. I don't know that all the coaching in the world would turn a guy like Paape into a 10-15 goal scorer at this level. There are a million examples of guys who score at one level but just aren't going to ever get there at the next. Guys like Mersch and Geoffrion didn't have the physical tools as freshman, but mentally they had the capacity to adjust to the pace and were natural scorers, they just physically needed to develop. Look at a guy like MacMurchy-- Scored all four years here, had all the tools, and I certainly thought he had the right stuff, but he got to the AHL and just couldn't adjust. ECHL, no problem, above that he just couldn't do it. Any amount of coaching is probably not going to ever make him a NHL player. (Has made a nice career in Europe though.) Burish could score in the AHL but not in the NHL.
There have always been guys who can't get the scoring job done at the next level, but like Paape, have been good contributors doing what they do. Navin has a lot of the physical tools but no amount of coaching can make him see the game like Gretzky. Or even like Hughes does already. It's not just coaching and heart and hard work. Yes, there are guys who develop more, but a player generally has to have some of the natural (especially mental) ability to get it done at the next level.

In other words, I think you can teach a guy that can score at a given level to score more, but teaching a guy to score that doesn't have it at that level to begin with is another thing entirely.

[oldicecoach]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

You completely missed the point. Underclassmen are supposed to be brought along slowly so they can acclimate to a higher level and "develop" into a better player. Remember how Turris struggled? Geoffrion had 2g 4a in 36 gp in his freshman year. Not every player is gonna be a star right away when they get to college. Not everyone can score 16g 29a like a Joe Pavelski in his first year. I think the trouble with Eaves isn't the system or the recruiting (except maybe class sizes), it's the players that leave early that have hurt him.

Not sure what your point is, freshmen play because you have 25%-50% yearly roster turnover caused by graduation, early departures, mid season departures, injuries and academic issues.

Turris had 35 points his freshman year, it would be great if all freshmen struggled like that.

Players leaving early isn’t unique to Wisconsin, all college hockey coaches have to deal with and plan for it. Eaves doesn’t get a pass on this one.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

I agree that freshman need to develop, but I'm sure if I spent 10 minutes I could find countless examples of freshmen tearing up NCAA hockey, this year and many many times in the past. minnesota, North Dakota, BC, they have impact freshman; we have people making excuses for our freshman never (or rarely) making an impact.

I'm not taking sides on this, partly because I think BB is a bad comparison in most ways, but just saying that freshman impact in hockey probably isn't as big as people generally think it would be. There are only seven frosh with more than 10 goals in all of NCAA hockey, (Eichel leads with 15). Michigan's Dylan Larkin (10 with 5 PPG) is the only B1G freshman with more than 6 goals this season and there are only two more frosh with more than 4.

Unless they are 1st round type forwards, few of whom play NCAA hockey, or playing on a line with high end upperclassmen, as a group they just don't score much coming in.

[GoBucky!]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

...I think BB is a bad comparison in most ways, but just saying that freshman impact in hockey probably isn't as big as people generally think it would be.

There have been a lot of bb players who went from high school directly to the NBA. Has anything close to that happened in hockey?

[Bonin21]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

There have been a lot of bb players who went from high school directly to the NBA. Has anything close to that happened in hockey?

Phil Housley. South St. Paul, MN.

[IndianaBadger1995]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

Not sure what your point is, freshmen play because you have 25%-50% yearly roster turnover caused by graduation, early departures, mid season departures, injuries and academic issues.

Turris had 35 points his freshman year, it would be great if all freshmen struggled like that.

Players leaving early isn’t unique to Wisconsin, all college hockey coaches have to deal with and plan for it. Eaves doesn’t get a pass on this one.

Freshmen will obviously play but you can't rely on them to carry the team like we have this year.

Turris had a ridiculous amount of points from the first series vs Robert Morris if I remember correctly and then struggled the rest of the year. He showed flashes. Not to mention that team had some darn good players (Davies, Geoffrion, McBain, Mcdonagh, Street, Ford, Mitchell, Smith). Who does this team have that matches that young talent? Besse, Hughes, Dougherty, Rockwood and Wagner? I think next year's recruiting class is a great step at evening the talent level in every class.

Give me some teams that experience it and then how they did the year after? Minnesota did it because their recruiting class was top notch. Any other year and they would have struggled mightily.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

Hughes is back in the line up. Ford in on the third line for Utaski and Cavalini in on the 4th.

Let's get after 'em Badgers!

[oldicecoach]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

Early game time tonight. 5:30pm Central Time. BTN, hoping for a split this weekend.

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

Freshmen will obviously play but you can't rely on them to carry the team like we have this year.

Turris had a ridiculous amount of points from the first series vs Robert Morris if I remember correctly and then struggled the rest of the year. He showed flashes. Not to mention that team had some darn good players (Davies, Geoffrion, McBain, Mcdonagh, Street, Ford, Mitchell, Smith). Who does this team have that matches that young talent? Besse, Hughes, Dougherty, Rockwood and Wagner? I think next year's recruiting class is a great step at evening the talent level in every class.

Give me some teams that experience it and then how they did the year after? Minnesota did it because their recruiting class was top notch. Any other year and they would have struggled mightily.

when is the last time Minnesota, BC or Nodak had just 2 wins mid-February? This cannot be overlooked, the problem cannot be overstated. When did Sauer ever have just 2 wins as of Feb 13 in any year for UW?

I don't care about freshman excuses or the seniors aren't pulling their weight. It all lands on the same desk doesn't it?

[Bonin21]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXXII: No Where To Go But Up!

when is the last time Minnesota, BC or Nodak had just 2 wins mid-February?

I'm 99% sure the answer is never for the Gophers. Even taking into account when the season started in January.