Arizona State Moving To D1

[The Rube]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

Glad to see that you two are keeping those small programs afloat.

Hey hey hey. There's others!

Honestly, there are. Many of the people I know will take random road trips, sometimes just to see hockey that isn't their team. Might be cheaper, might be fun to do, might be all of the above.

It's how some of us became secondary fans of schools like Tech. My first road trip was for a home-and-home MTU-NMU series. The next year, I hit up UAH@BSU series.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

Now you're joining the blatherfest?

You know me...


Bored, eating Golden Grahams from the box and about to go to bed.

[The Rube]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

Bored, eating Golden Grahams from the box and about to go to bed.

'Murica.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

'Murica.

Fvckin' A Right!

[Red Cows]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

There sure seem to be a lot of things that ASU officials today glossed over at their press conference announcing this, and as it relates to speculation by them, and in this thread, about about other schools adding D-1 hockey.

The donation that made this possible is also enough to fund the start or either a women's rowing or a women's lacrosse team at ASU, something that is absolutely necessary for them to not run afoul of the feds and Title IX. How often, or, how many schools are going to be able to just cough up the monies that might make either possible, either on their own, or, through a private donation? ASU officials acknowledge that this took the largest single donation in the history of ASU Athletics (32 million dollars) to pull off, as the same thing did at Penn State and that donation by Terry Pegula, at 102 million dollars, was the single biggest in the history of that school on any level, let alone just to the Athletic Department. Further, it also assisted Penn State around that same pesky Title IX issue and allowed them to add women's D-1 hockey at the same time. And, this is going to happen ("tip the dominoes", to quote them, verbatim), soon, at 5 more Pac-12 schools and we are going to have the Pac-12 Hockey Conference in the foreseeable future? Yeah, right.

Oceanside Ice Center, where ASU's ACHA team currently plays, seats 500 people for hockey. It is obviously completely and totally unsuited for a D-1 team at a school this size, both logistically and financially. The arena is owned by the Desert Youth Hockey Association (a 501c non-profit) and is a couple miles from the ASU campus. It was built in 1974 and, to give you an idea, there are two community rinks in Omaha, alone, for example, that are more opulent, newer, and larger than this place is.

The school says they don't know where they are going to play, yet (starting NEXT season!), but it is unfathomable that it would be in this facility. Their new coach says that they "expect to have a facility on campus, as soon as possible" Really? When? The going rate for that is going to be about 90 million bucks (at least), about what Penn State spent (88 million) and what UNO is currently spending (87 million). That amount of money got them both dual rink facilities and seating for 6,014 at Penn State and 7,500 at UNO. Is that big enough for a school the size of ASU? Who knows? Where is that money coming from, however much it ends up being, and, how soon? 39 million dollars of the the 87 million to build UNO's arena was also donated, by the way.

They talk of playing, perhaps, in US Airways Center in downtown Phoenix but, this is a city owned facility that has 3 major tenants in it already, the NBA Phoenix Suns, the WNBA Phoenix Mercury, and the Arena Football League Arizona Rattlers. The Suns schedule completely overlaps the college hockey season and the AFL season starts before the end of the college hockey regular season. They would be a secondary tenant (in a building that seats 16,210 for hockey) and would presumably have many, if not all the same sorts of revenue issues that UNO has had ever since it moved into the what was the Qwest and is now the CenturyLink Center here in Omaha, that is also city owned. Plus, the US Airways Center was not built with hockey in mind at all and, because of this, and the fact that they had a very unfavorable lease with the City of Phoenix, the building was such a disaster for the Arizona Coyotes that they had to abandon the place for their current digs in Glendale. At best, ASU is years from playing in a building they own. Probably 5+. And, all that time they are playing in somebody else's multi-use, multipurpose building, just as at UNO, the program may be scrambling for a place to practice on a regular basis and this is something that will be used against them in recruiting unless they can maybe use the team's current home as their practice facility. Either way, none of these near-future options, playing or practicing, are on campus and players are going to be schlepping all over the place for some time to come. Maybe the school can add ice making capability to Wells Fargo Arena (on campus) or even to the old Sun Devil Gym?

Their coach goes on to cite recruiting advantages they have without being specific about what they are other than to say that "we truly are the most unique college hockey experience in the country, and we are going to exploit that”. The only one that I can see is the weather there. And, they are going to compete directly with an NHL team for hockey dollars there and against the NBA, MLB, the NFL, the WNBA, and the AFL there (the Rattlers average about 10,000 fans per game!) for sports dollars, in general, to say nothing of all the other major sports at their own school!

I think it is going to be quite a challenge for them to become competitive anytime soon on the ice and to be any sort of financial success anytime soon, as well (if they ever do). To say nothing of the immediate financial challenges associated with their new facilities needs there, now.

I am glad to see it but, good luck to them. I think they will need some luck as well as needing to be very resourceful, besides. If they get into a conference, my bet is that it is the NCHC along with a defector from the WCHA (Bowling Green? MSM? FSU?). It's the only conference that really makes any sort of logistical sense. I'd be utterly shocked to see the Big 10 add them as an affiliate, despite conjecture earlier in the thread about this.

[Patronick]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

The conference ASU joins will be largely irrelevant. I think we we're going to see further conference realignment within the next five years regardless of ASU joining DI, but now that they have I think it's inevitable.

[jnacc]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

There sure seem to be a lot of things that ASU officials today glossed over at their press conference announcing this, and as it relates to speculation by them, and in this thread, about about other schools adding D-1 hockey.

The donation that made this possible is also enough to fund the start or either a women's rowing or a women's lacrosse team at ASU, something that is absolutely necessary for them to not run afoul of the feds and Title IX. How often, or, how many schools are going to be able to just cough up the monies that might make either possible, either on their own, or, through a private donation? ASU officials acknowledge that this took the largest single donation in the history of ASU Athletics (32 million dollars) to pull off, as the same thing did at Penn State and that donation by Terry Pegula, at 102 million dollars, was the single biggest in the history of that school on any level, let alone just to the Athletic Department. Further, it also assisted Penn State around that same pesky Title IX issue and allowed them to add women's D-1 hockey at the same time. And, this is going to happen ("tip the dominoes", to quote them, verbatim), soon, at 5 more Pac-12 schools and we are going to have the Pac-12 Hockey Conference in the foreseeable future? Yeah, right.

Oceanside Ice Center, where ASU's ACHA team currently plays, seats 500 people for hockey. It is obviously completely and totally unsuited for a D-1 team at a school this size, both logistically and financially. The arena is owned by the Desert Youth Hockey Association (a 501c non-profit) and is a couple miles from the ASU campus. It was built in 1974 and, to give you an idea, there are two community rinks in Omaha, alone, for example, that are more opulent, newer, and larger than this place is.

The school says they don't know where they are going to play, yet (starting NEXT season!), but it is unfathomable that it would be in this facility. Their new coach says that they "expect to have a facility on campus, as soon as possible" Really? When? The going rate for that is going to be about 90 million bucks (at least), about what Penn State spent (88 million) and what UNO is currently spending (87 million). That amount of money got them both dual rink facilities and seating for 6,014 at Penn State and 7,500 at UNO. Is that big enough for a school the size of ASU? Who knows? Where is that money coming from, however much it ends up being, and, how soon? 39 million dollars of the the 87 million to build UNO's arena was also donated, by the way.

They talk of playing, perhaps, in US Airways Center in downtown Phoenix but, this is a city owned facility that has 3 major tenants in it already, the NBA Phoenix Suns, the WNBA Phoenix Mercury, and the Arena Football League Arizona Rattlers. The Suns schedule completely overlaps the college hockey season and the AFL season starts before the end of the college hockey regular season. They would be a secondary tenant (in a building that seats 16,210 for hockey) and would presumably have many, if not all the same sorts of revenue issues that UNO has had ever since it moved into the what was the Qwest and is now the CenturyLink Center here in Omaha, that is also city owned. Plus, the US Airways Center was not built with hockey in mind at all and, because of this, and the fact that they had a very unfavorable lease with the City of Phoenix, the building was such a disaster for the Arizona Coyotes that they had to abandon the place for their current digs in Glendale. At best, ASU is years from playing in a building they own. Probably 5+. And, all that time they are playing in somebody else's multi-use, multipurpose building, just as at UNO, the program may be scrambling for a place to practice on a regular basis and this is something that will be used against them in recruiting unless they can maybe use the team's current home as their practice facility. Either way, none of these near-future options, playing or practicing, are on campus and players are going to be schlepping all over the place for some time to come. Maybe the school can add ice making capability to Wells Fargo Arena (on campus) or even to the old Sun Devil Gym?

Their coach goes on to cite recruiting advantages they have without being specific about what they are other than to say that "we truly are the most unique college hockey experience in the country, and we are going to exploit that”. The only one that I can see is the weather there. And, they are going to compete directly with an NHL team for hockey dollars there and against the NBA, MLB, the NFL, the WNBA, and the AFL there (the Rattlers average about 10,000 fans per game!) for sports dollars, in general, to say nothing of all the other major sports at their own school!

I think it is going to be quite a challenge for them to become competitive anytime soon on the ice and to be any sort of financial success anytime soon, as well (if they ever do). To say nothing of the immediate financial challenges associated with their new facilities needs there, now.

I am glad to see it but, good luck to them. I think they will need some luck as well as needing to be very resourceful, besides. If they get into a conference, my bet is that it is the NCHC along with a defector from the WCHA (Bowling Green? MSM? FSU?). It's the only conference that really makes any sort of logistical sense. I'd be utterly shocked to see the Big 10 add them as an affiliate, despite conjecture earlier in the thread about this.

Excellent insight...for all the talk of expansion, people are forgetting that the NCAA model as we know it is on the verge of extinction. The O'bannon appeal is pivotal as to what direction the model of college athletics will take. So many of these large schools are relying on the massive revenues that football and basketball bring but those revenues are being hotly contested right now and may soon have to be funneled to the players...you know the ones actually providing the entertainment, and I'm sure that schools like ASU ,who are perhaps will be relying on that money to fund their outlier sports such as hockey, may find that it is not financially feasible after all.

[JF_Gophers]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

ASU doesn't need to make money at hockey for it to be successful. Not that many schools are in the plus on hockey I'd imagine.

They certainly need a new arena, but they stated they were going to look on campus. If they have to share for 5 years at an off site arena, it's not perfect but also not untenable.

As for money, even if the Power 5 are paying players, they are taking from such a large revenue pool that I doubt it's going to squeeze their athletic budgets that much. If they happen to dump the NCAA along the way that might help them as well.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

There sure seem to be a lot of things that ASU officials today glossed over at their press conference announcing this, and as it relates to speculation by them, and in this thread, about about other schools adding D-1 hockey.

The donation that made this possible is also enough to fund the start or either a women's rowing or a women's lacrosse team at ASU, something that is absolutely necessary for them to not run afoul of the feds and Title IX. How often, or, how many schools are going to be able to just cough up the monies that might make either possible, either on their own, or, through a private donation? ASU officials acknowledge that this took the largest single donation in the history of ASU Athletics (32 million dollars) to pull off, as the same thing did at Penn State and that donation by Terry Pegula, at 102 million dollars, was the single biggest in the history of that school on any level, let alone just to the Athletic Department. Further, it also assisted Penn State around that same pesky Title IX issue and allowed them to add women's D-1 hockey at the same time. And, this is going to happen ("tip the dominoes", to quote them, verbatim), soon, at 5 more Pac-12 schools and we are going to have the Pac-12 Hockey Conference in the foreseeable future? Yeah, right.

Oceanside Ice Center, where ASU's ACHA team currently plays, seats 500 people for hockey. It is obviously completely and totally unsuited for a D-1 team at a school this size, both logistically and financially. The arena is owned by the Desert Youth Hockey Association (a 501c non-profit) and is a couple miles from the ASU campus. It was built in 1974 and, to give you an idea, there are two community rinks in Omaha, alone, for example, that are more opulent, newer, and larger than this place is.

The school says they don't know where they are going to play, yet (starting NEXT season!), but it is unfathomable that it would be in this facility. Their new coach says that they "expect to have a facility on campus, as soon as possible" Really? When? The going rate for that is going to be about 90 million bucks (at least), about what Penn State spent (88 million) and what UNO is currently spending (87 million). That amount of money got them both dual rink facilities and seating for 6,014 at Penn State and 7,500 at UNO. Is that big enough for a school the size of ASU? Who knows? Where is that money coming from, however much it ends up being, and, how soon? 39 million dollars of the the 87 million to build UNO's arena was also donated, by the way.

They talk of playing, perhaps, in US Airways Center in downtown Phoenix but, this is a city owned facility that has 3 major tenants in it already, the NBA Phoenix Suns, the WNBA Phoenix Mercury, and the Arena Football League Arizona Rattlers. The Suns schedule completely overlaps the college hockey season and the AFL season starts before the end of the college hockey regular season. They would be a secondary tenant (in a building that seats 16,210 for hockey) and would presumably have many, if not all the same sorts of revenue issues that UNO has had ever since it moved into the what was the Qwest and is now the CenturyLink Center here in Omaha, that is also city owned. Plus, the US Airways Center was not built with hockey in mind at all and, because of this, and the fact that they had a very unfavorable lease with the City of Phoenix, the building was such a disaster for the Arizona Coyotes that they had to abandon the place for their current digs in Glendale. At best, ASU is years from playing in a building they own. Probably 5+. And, all that time they are playing in somebody else's multi-use, multipurpose building, just as at UNO, the program may be scrambling for a place to practice on a regular basis and this is something that will be used against them in recruiting unless they can maybe use the team's current home as their practice facility. Either way, none of these near-future options, playing or practicing, are on campus and players are going to be schlepping all over the place for some time to come. Maybe the school can add ice making capability to Wells Fargo Arena (on campus) or even to the old Sun Devil Gym?

Their coach goes on to cite recruiting advantages they have without being specific about what they are other than to say that "we truly are the most unique college hockey experience in the country, and we are going to exploit that”. The only one that I can see is the weather there. And, they are going to compete directly with an NHL team for hockey dollars there and against the NBA, MLB, the NFL, the WNBA, and the AFL there (the Rattlers average about 10,000 fans per game!) for sports dollars, in general, to say nothing of all the other major sports at their own school!

I think it is going to be quite a challenge for them to become competitive anytime soon on the ice and to be any sort of financial success anytime soon, as well (if they ever do). To say nothing of the immediate financial challenges associated with their new facilities needs there, now.

I am glad to see it but, good luck to them. I think they will need some luck as well as needing to be very resourceful, besides. If they get into a conference, my bet is that it is the NCHC along with a defector from the WCHA (Bowling Green? MSM? FSU?). It's the only conference that really makes any sort of logistical sense. I'd be utterly shocked to see the Big 10 add them as an affiliate, despite conjecture earlier in the thread about this.

Nailed it.

Just for perspective, most high schools in Minnesota have larger rinks. Although I don't think ASU needs to build a $100M palace. They could easily get by building something like Bemidji. That was built for $35 million.

[jnacc]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

ASU doesn't need to make money at hockey for it to be successful. Not that many schools are in the plus on hockey I'd imagine.

They certainly need a new arena, but they stated they were going to look on campus. If they have to share for 5 years at an off site arena, it's not perfect but also not untenable.

As for money, even if the Power 5 are paying players, they are taking from such a large revenue pool that I doubt it's going to squeeze their athletic budgets that much. If they happen to dump the NCAA along the way that might help them as well.

I understand that hockey is a non revenue sport at most colleges but many colleges rely on the revenue generated by football/basketball to subsidize non revenue sports. If ASU has to start paying their football players a 5000 per year stipend to start, its only a matter of time before the stipend increases exponentially and athletic budgets begin to feel the pinch...here's a good article about the (negative) changes potentially coming to college athletics...and this article does not even touch upon the O'Bannon case, the anti trust law suit and the unionization of players.


http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/s...ling/19206373/

A very interesting quote from UVM President

Finally, it is likely that the new NCAA compensation plan, which goes beyond the award of the cost of attendance, will be found to be a commercial enterprise more akin to an employer-employee relationship and eventually regulated by the NLRB for private schools and state labor laws for public institutions. It is hard to conceive how such an outcome can be managed and coordinated for individual schools within Division 1 and within individual conferences, in order to field and schedule teams within a unified calendar. The result could be chaos, with each school negotiating with each team a labor contract for "the terms and conditions" of playing for that institution.

In a way the proverbial genie is out of the lamp and huge changes are coming. This will also impact non-revenue sports such as hockey and UVM athletic director Corran raised some very important questions and issues about the changing landscape...

There still are some things that need clarifications, but with Hockey East, there are some real issues we are going to have to address," Corran said. "What do we do as a conference to regulate? Do we look at a way to controlling that and bringing more balance (to Hockey East)?

"As a conference, we have the right to institute more stringent regulation."

Another drawback is the unintended consequences for other sports. The autonomy plan is powered by football and television.

"It's disappointing that one sport is really driving intercollegiate athletics and that sport is far removed from what we do here and what a lot of other schools do," Corran said. "It's one of the things I'm really fearful of."

And it could lead, further down the road, to elimination of sports as universities and colleges, forced into an arms race, streamline their budgets.

[JF_Gophers]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

Unionization as always would be bad for top end players, limiting their earnings, and good for average players, raising their pay.

It would likely suppress the exponential increase of pay and help the conferences in that way.

I understand there would be increased expense in Healthcare and other areas that will offset some of that.

[aallenpollreisz]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

As somebody who loves college hockey and wants to see the sport grow into some sort of blip on the national sports radar, I welcome ASU into the fold with open arms.

IMO, college hockey needs a better western presence - something needs to be done to keep all the top-flight west coast talent from jumping to the WHL. This is a start, and a Pac 12 hockey conference would be the obvious end-game.

[QUAlum2004]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

I think that if the PAC12 conference happens then we possibly see another tournament expansion with 20 teams in the tournament with 2 play in games.

[SanTropez]

Re: Arizona State Moving To D1

I think it is going to be quite a challenge for them to become competitive anytime soon on the ice and to be any sort of financial success anytime soon, as well (if they ever do). To say nothing of the immediate financial challenges associated with their new facilities needs there, now.

I don't.

People said that about Penn State too, but look at them they are ahead of becky in the PWR right now (19) and actually have 6 wins vs 6 losses. Then again that's probably not a good comparison because 58 teams are ahead of becky in the PWR right now. I'm pretty sure Arizona State is ahead of becky in the PWR right now as well.

Nevermind, you're right ASU will suck for years to come.

[Hammer]

I think that if the PAC12 conference happens then we possibly see another tournament expansion with 20 teams in the tournament with 2 play in games.

You'd need 4 play-in games with a 20 team field.