Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Because the top programs get their freshman to perform right away... Not just when they are juniors and seniors.

Plus other teams have "unexpected" departures and they don't seem to be so affected by it. At least they don't use it as a constant excuse.

The other teams thing is largely a fallacy. There are very few freshman in NCAA hockey that perform at the high end on top lines unless they are playing with an experienced and talented player to make things go. Even Eichel, who is a real exception and could do much anyway, is playing with Jr. Danny O' Regan, a WJ team veteran, and U-18 World champion. Or for example gopher frosh had Rau, who is not on the previous list because he's only a third round pick playing in his 4th yr.

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

The other teams thing is largely a fallacy. There are very few freshman in NCAA hockey that perform at the high end on top lines unless they are playing with an experienced and talented player to make things go. Even Eichel, who is a real exception and could do much anyway, is playing with Jr. Danny O' Regan, a WJ team veteran, and U-18 World champion. Or for example gopher frosh had Rau, who is not on the previous list because he's only a third round pick playing in his 4th yr.

OK, let's say your are right. Than it is critical for the coach to even out the classes to ensure an NCAA tournament caliber team almost every year. Whatever the reason, the up and down roller coaster of results every 3-4 years is unacceptable for Wisconsin hockey. Other coaches manage the situation just fine.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

OK, let's say your are right. Than it is critical for the coach to even out the classes to ensure an NCAA tournament caliber team almost every year. Whatever the reason, the up and down roller coaster of results every 3-4 years is unacceptable for Wisconsin hockey. Other coaches manage the situation just fine.

Yes. Let us say I am right, not only because I like the sound of it, but because I am.

And yes, it is critical to even out classes, which is exactly what I and most others have been saying all along. Not this 13 freshman and two checking Sr.s would produce better at MN or UND nonsense. The really relevant question then is: How is that done, and/or why hasn't it been done here? The answer to that isn't "nobody else has had a problem with it." It's something more specific to the Badger's situation that you have to sort through if you want to know. Or you can just generalize, I guess.

Folks might be surprised, but I do think there are specific things that Eaves and co. are at fault for.

[UWisco]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Why is Keegan Ford still on the roster on the schools website? For some reason this irks me.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Folks might be surprised, but I do think there are specific things that Eaves and co. are at fault for.

Like having this become a cycle that we seem to be doomed to repeat for all of eternity?


Are you our new Baghdad Bob?

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Are you our new Baghdad Bob?

Nope. I just like to look deeper into things.

Give you an example: Awhile back I made some money on a company who's stock dipped on news that a container ship carrying their inbound products sunk. One full container ship can carry a hell of a lot of stuff. Big blow to the Company right? Well to make it a lot shorter, it turns out that it was pretty darn important to actually know specifically what was in the containers.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Look as deeply as you'd like. Certainly no one can accuse you of being reactionary. You do spend a lot of time defending Eaves though and looking for reasons (excuses) for why things are the way they are.


My question is how long does Eaves get? This is the start of his 4th cycle (?) of unbalanced classes.

I think we've seen enough. Seems that many ticket buyers agree with me.

One cycle, maybe two is understandable. To have this continuing shows that he doesn't know how to correct the situation.


He's had enough of a chance. The state of the program is deplorable. Don't care about excuses anymore.

Time for a new direction.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Look as deeply as you'd like. Certainly no one can accuse you of being reactionary.

My question though is how long does Eaves get? This is the start of his 4th cycle (at least) of unbalanced classes.

I think we've seen enough. Seems that many ticket buyers agree with me.

One cycle, maybe two is understandable. To have this continuing shows that he doesn't know how to correct the situation.


He's had enough of a chance. The state of the program is deplorable. Don't care about excuses anymore.

Time for a new direction.

Not saying that's an unfair position to take.

I think part of how one might look at Eaves culpability in not fixing the unbalanced classes, is related to if you would view Keegan Ford as a recruiting miss or not.

[Hammy]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

You make several points which I'd like to get to as time permits, for now I'll just offer this about this point. Here are the 1st and 2nd round gofer picks since '06 and how long they stayed in school: (not in order)

Brady Skjei (1st) in 3rd year
Aaron Ness (2nd) 3yrs
Nico Sacchetti (2nd) 4Yrs.
Nick Leddy (1st) 1yr
Zach Budish (2nd) 4Yrs
Jordan Schroeder (1st) 2 yr
Nick Bjugstad (1st) 3 yrs
Mark Alt (2nd) 3yrs
Justin Holl (2nd) 4 yrs
Patrick White (1st) 4yrs
Jim O'Brien (1st) 1 yr
Mike Hoeffel (2nd)4 yrs
Erik Johnson (1st) 1 yr
Phil Kessel (1st) 1 yr
Kyle Okposo (1st)2 yrs
David Fischer (1st)4 yrs

As you can see, 10/16 stayed at least 3, and 5 of those stayed 4 years.

I don't know that comparing to the Gophers is entirely fair. I don't mean this in a smug way either.

The reality is that many of the players that come to the U grew up in its shadow. In particular, kids in the Twin Cities. I can't tell you how many times over the years that I have had players that commit to the Gophers tell me how they went to games at Mariucci quite often growing up. There is a sense of connection to the program because of it. They grew up with it. This plants a seed in their head and once they get there, they are (often times) not in any hurry to leave. Schools that rely more on talent that develops at distant locales (usually because their local talent base isn't as strong/deep) don't have that same situation.

(PS - A few of the names above stayed longer than many had hoped... simply because they didn't develop to the level that their draft position projected).

[burd]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

I don't know that comparing to the Gophers is entirely fair. I don't mean this in a smug way either.

The reality is that many of the players that come to the U grew up in its shadow. In particular, kids in the Twin Cities. I can't tell you how many times over the years that I have had players that commit to the Gophers tell me how they went to games at Mariucci quite often growing up. There is a sense of connection to the program because of it. They grew up with it. This plants a seed in their head and once they get there, they are (often times) not in any hurry to leave. Schools that rely more on talent that develops at distant locales (usually because their local talent base isn't as strong/deep) don't have that same situation.

(PS - A few of the names above stayed longer than many had hoped... simply because they didn't develop to the level that their draft position projected).

What was Rau's draft status?

Never mind--I see he went in the 3rd Boy, you keep many third rounders like that for 4, you will win a lot of hockey games.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

You do spend a lot of time defending Eaves though and looking for reasons (excuses) for why things are the way they are.

Since you edited in this part in after/during my reply I'll respond to it: From your point of view I do suppose you see it as me defending Eaves. Maybe because you want Eaves gone, I don't know. From my point of view I feel I tend toward pointing out facts that I think are in conflict with certain opinions that often seem to be widely held. And I


Holy Crap! Paape just scored again!

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

The stats on players leaving early puts this problem into sharp relief. However, like it or not, early departures are not endemic to Wisconsin Hockey. Nodak, Michigan, Minnesota, BC, BU, everybody has them. What *might* be unique to Wisconsin is the # of players who really aren't considered blue chippah's who leave early. I'm talking Brendan Woods, Matt Auffrey types etc

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

The stats on players leaving early puts this problem into sharp relief. However, like it or not, early departures are not endemic to Wisconsin Hockey. Nodak, Michigan, Minnesota, BC, BU, everybody has them. What *might* be unique to Wisconsin is the # of players who really aren't considered blue chippah's who leave early. I'm talking Brendan Woods, Matt Auffrey types etc

I'm curious how much Eaves' personality has to do with players leaving. Just sayin'.

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

I'm curious how much Eaves' personality has to do with players leaving. Just sayin'.

I'm wondering that as well. Like the situation w/Harbough in S.F. or Bobby Knight at Indiana. At a certain point that hard-guy stuff really wears thin and a lot of people (maybe especially college-age kids) don't want to deal with that.

U.S. 18 team 4 - Wisconsin 1

that's an interesting albeit probably expected result

anyone remember when UW beat the U.S. Olympic team in the 80's? We're a hell of a far cry from seeing a team that good in Madison

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Episode XXXI: A New Hope

Lol.

4-1 to the U-18s?