The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

[UMLFan]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

nu (aka-The Red Headed Stepchild)

No, really! This is the year!

[Kepler]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

OK I call BS. Putting aside the pseudo D-1 schools competing in Atlantic Hockey ... name one?

and yeah, yesterday was kinda boring

Q would join in a second. Other than that, nobody in the ECAC wants to join HE (except maybe us )

[Kepler]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

I find this an interesting comment as it originates from outside the three relevant fanbases. Over the past year, based on the team threads, there is near unanimity amongst the fans of these three former "Big 4" members that they DON'T have the talent they used to have.

Nobody really does, except BC, which is what makes BC so weird. All of the other factory schools have been in relative decline against the rest of the NC$$ over the last decade plus. Either the bottom is catching up in talent, or the five star guys who used to go to Minny or Michigan are now getting siphoned into the CHL, or both.

[mookie1995]

No, really! This is the year!

Hey
You wanna kiss that frog, be my guest

[BUPhD]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

I was wondering when mookie would find this thread.

[UncleRay]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

Maine & UNH are perpetually meh middle of the conference, maybe make the tournament but not really challenge for the FF.

You might want to check the history of that.

[5mn_Major]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

Nobody really does, except BC, which is what makes BC so weird. All of the other factory schools have been in relative decline against the rest of the NC$$ over the last decade plus. Either the bottom is catching up in talent, or the five star guys who used to go to Minny or Michigan are now getting siphoned into the CHL, or both.

Minnesota hasn't lost a serious recruit to the CHL since Peter Mueller 9 years ago...and I can't even tell you of any others. I think that would put most HE teams as more vulnerable than the gophers.

[Patman]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

Minnesota hasn't lost a serious recruit to the CHL since Peter Mueller 9 years ago...and I can't even tell you of any others. I think that would put most HE teams as more vulnerable than the gophers.

Its a matter of who you go after, I think Michigan and BC are more susceptible. Minnesota has the built in pride factor which probably keeps people in and also means you don't have to fight too much with MJ.

The thing with hockey players... if they think they're on the fast track then MJ is hard to resist. I know Lowell has lost one or two on occasion. In each case I don't think much happened to them... in one case a player got injured right away and got jettisoned. Nonetheless, if you're confident and high on yourself you're going to put your stock higher than you should. Insurance is not something the young consider.

[drshoen]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

Q would join in a second. Other than that, nobody in the ECAC wants to join HE (except maybe us )

I don't agree with that. HE just had an opening, which eventually became UConn. I don't remember hearing if any ECAC schools applied to take that opening. I think if Q wanted to jump, they would have applied. And if they had applied, I can't see HE picking UConn over Q.

[claver2010]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

You might want to check the history of that.

The argument is of late it's been BC and the 7 dwarfs. I know the history of Maine cheating & UNH choking.

Maine has made the tournament once in the last 7 years, UNH hasn't made the FF in over a decade depsite having home ice in the tournament every other year.

[Rover]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

Chuck, the problem in that case is that some programs have squandered the talent given to them... Namely bu, Maine, and UNH. You know this to be true. BU won a national title in that stretch but I have to imagine to a man they believe they ought to be doing better.

If it weren't for that stuff we wouldn't be having this conversation. Those schools have had the parts, they haven't had the culture or coaching to make it work recently. I'd love to see what Bazin could do with that level of talent.

This I believe is the core of the problem. Bad coaching. Parker was a great coach 30 years ago but by the time he was done he'd lost his fastball, curveball, changeup, and just about everything else. That killed a program that was churning out NHL level players even after their 2009 championship (Nieto, Coyle, etc).

Dick Umile is a fossil and a dinosaur and the school needs to step up and force his retirement. That team will stay stuck in neutral as long as his corpse continues to rot behind the bench.

Whitehead was a terrible coach who only had success with another coach's players. Unbelievable that he was allowed to stick around for so long.

So, if you let bad coaching fester, the team and the league will suffer. The good coaches were all at the rest of the programs (Lowell, the Mac) hence their success. Thankfully BU has made a long overdue change, and I expect them to return to the top. Maine has too but I'm unsure of their prospects unless they start paying players again. UNH? Sorry Chuck but this year is going to be every year until you get rid of that guy.

[Kepler]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

I think if Q wanted to jump, they would have applied. And if they had applied, I can't see HE picking UConn over Q.

On the former comment, I have no idea whether Q applied but I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to establish themselves first.

On the latter, though, we strongly disagree. HE is moving (has moved?) to a "Big Ten / Pac Ten" model of regional state universities: Maine, UNH, UMass, UML, UVM. UConn fits that model perfectly. BU is essentially UMass-Storrow Drive. BC is the gorilla that can sit wherever it wants to. Providence and NU are legacies that can hold their own, and Merrimack is... well, Merrimack. They are probably destined for AH when Q does move to HE and RIT or Holy Cross backfill the ECAC slot.

[NCAA watcher]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

Dick Umile is a fossil and a dinosaur and the school needs to step up and force his retirement. That team will stay stuck in neutral as long as his corpse continues to rot behind the bench.

UNH? Sorry Chuck but this year is going to be every year until you get rid of that guy.

Overheard at the AD Department:

I couldn't take it any longer
Lord I was crazed
And when the feeling came upon me
Like a tidal wave
I started swearing to my god
And on my mother's grave
That I would employ you to the end of time
I swore I would employ you to the end of time

So now I'm praying for the end of time
To hurry up and arrive
'Cause if I gotta spend another minute with you
I don't think that I can really survive
I'll never break my promise or forget my vow
But God only knows what I can do right now
I'm praying for the end of time
So I can end my time with you

[Split-N]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

...I don't remember hearing if any ECAC schools applied to take that opening...

AFAIK, there was no application process. UConn has been a done deal for a long time. Just a matter of when they would commit to investing the necessary resources. They made that commitment, the magic wand was waved, and they were in.

As someone else on this thread noted, HEA is following a "big school -- deep pockets" model a la the B1G. Whether or not The Mack is able to keep up (I hope so) over the long haul is a fair question.

[Chuck Murray]

Re: The Fallacy of HE "Supremacy" - BC, The Seven Dwarfs and The Least of the East

So, if you let bad coaching fester, the team and the league will suffer. The good coaches were all at the rest of the programs (Lowell, the Mac) hence their success. Thankfully BU has made a long overdue change, and I expect them to return to the top. Maine has too but I'm unsure of their prospects unless they start paying players again. UNH? Sorry Chuck but this year is going to be every year until you get rid of that guy.

I think the overriding point in your post is basically correct. The overall quality of coaching in HE has deteriorated. And the programs who do enjoy the better coaching have risen in the vacuum created in the aftermath of the old "Big Four". Whether those programs will take advantage of their suddenly-found footholes in the upper tier of HE remains to be seen, and I guess that's the overriding point in my original post ... none of these other schools has really cracked it nationally, although Lowell arguably is on the verge of making the next step. It will be interesting to see if Coach Bazin can maintain the momentum, or will fall back a little (see Merrimack) while they wait to reload. Based on what I've seen ... I'm bullish on Lowell being a consistent factor near the top of HE for the forseeable future.

As far as your thoughts on UNH, I can't argue too much as I've held some of those beliefs for some time myself. I figure Coach Umile perhaps views the next two incoming classes as the key to his long-term future - and I have no reason to believe anyone else holds that key other than Coach himself - if it pans out, he gets to set out on another quest for the elusive white whale, and maybe he's behind the UNH bench until age 70+? IF it craps out, then he retires two years from now, and we all finally find out what's behind Door #3 in Durham. Which is only slightly less compelling than finding out what's behind Door #3 in Chestnut Hill a few years from now.

JMHO.