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View Full Version : RPI Offseason Thread: 7 Months of Drivel



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Ralph Baer
05-10-2014, 11:52 AM
John, this is not an argument, it is a debate. Fridgen took over a very good hockey team and in his first season won the ECAC tournament. In his first few seasons, he brought in some very good recruits. Tapper, Murley, Pothier and others. He had some very good seasons in the late nineties, but still had trouble winning anything. His last two years were awful. The talent was not there and neither were the victories while playing a less than tough schedule. A downward spiral if I ever saw one.
That said, Fridgen was a great guy and his recruits were a credit to RPI (sound familiar?).
Behind the bench, I am not happy with either of these guys, but a change was needed when Appert came in and I believe that he has made the program better.
I really wish he could coach as well as he recruits.
I am in complete agreement, but it has stagnated.

ServinisScores
05-10-2014, 01:50 PM
but a change was needed when Appert came in and I believe that he has made the program better.


It what sense has it become better?

FlagDUDE08
05-10-2014, 02:25 PM
It what sense has it become better?

To be fair, the number of ticket sales are up from what I recall my first two years at RPI. Sure, it isn't at the levels of from what I have heard about the 80's, but in comparison to Fridgen, more money has come in from tickets, and I'm not speaking in terms of inflation.

engineerhockeyfan
05-10-2014, 02:33 PM
It what sense has it become better?

More talented players a much better schedule and the ability to watch some of our players make it to and in the NHL.
While Fridgen had a number of talented players in his first five years as coach, the last two were not very good.

engineerhockeyfan
05-10-2014, 02:38 PM
I just want to point out that the debate that I am engaged in is a Fridgen/Appert debate.
I don't want anyone thinking that I am happy with the on ice performance of this team going back to 1995.
Even the years that we made it to the NCAA tournament, we just squeaked in. And had no chance once we got there.
I would love a 25 or better win season, and a chance to win a game in the tournament, but that still seems very far away.

Ralph Baer
05-10-2014, 04:10 PM
I just want to point out that the debate that I am engaged in is a Fridgen/Appert debate.
I don't want anyone thinking that I am happy with the on ice performance of this team going back to 1995.
Even the years that we made it to the NCAA tournament, we just squeaked in. And had no chance once we got there.
I would love a 25 or better win season, and a chance to win a game in the tournament, but that still seems very far away.

I don't think that it is necessarily that far way assuming that we play as a team, but that doesn't seem to be the "Engineer way". :(

Jasma
05-10-2014, 06:08 PM
To be fair, the number of ticket sales are up from what I recall my first two years at RPI. Sure, it isn't at the levels of from what I have heard about the 80's, but in comparison to Fridgen, more money has come in from tickets, and I'm not speaking in terms of inflation.
Ticket sales? Who on this board cares about ticket sales? Let's talk about that in January if this team does its usual mid-season swoon. Both coaches discussed in this debate have brought in some very talented players. I still believe that Fridg's last two seasons were an excuse to move him out so Dr Jackson could find someone who fit her idea of a good face for the Tute. If you recall MacDonald had cancer and that was about the time of the divIII debate and that hurt recruiting for at least a couple of years. Fridg had 2 bad years and a winning record. Seth has had 4-5 bad years and a losing record. He will be here at least 2 more years. It will be interesting to see where the program is then. I'm still optimistic, but realistic.

Ralph Baer
05-10-2014, 06:29 PM
Ticket sales? Who on this board cares about ticket sales? Let's talk about that in January if this team does its usual mid-season swoon. Both coaches discussed in this debate have brought in some very talented players. I still believe that Fridg's last two seasons were an excuse to move him out so Dr Jackson could find someone who fit her idea of a good face for the Tute. If you recall MacDonald had cancer and that was about the time of the divIII debate and that hurt recruiting for at least a couple of years. Fridg had 2 bad years and a winning record. Seth has had 4-5 bad years and a losing record. He will be here at least 2 more years. It will be interesting to see where the program is then. I'm still optimistic, but realistic.
Although the DIII "debate" was a contributing factor, Fridge's recruiting hit its low point after that.

ServinisScores
05-10-2014, 11:53 PM
More talented players a much better schedule and the ability to watch some of our players make it to and in the NHL.
While Fridgen had a number of talented players in his first five years as coach, the last two were not very good.

I understand, and don't want to be argumentative, but at the end of the day, if the performance isn't there - and by any metric, it isn't - does any of that matter? Hell, I would say all of these players leaving for the NHL went too early by at least a year - and if everything is A-o-K in the room, I don't see them leaving so soon. That part doesn't make sense to me.

Ralph Baer
05-11-2014, 01:54 AM
Today is 11 May 2014. There are 146 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 4 October 2014 for the start of next season.

johnk
05-11-2014, 09:25 AM
More talented players a much better schedule and the ability to watch some of our players make it to and in the NHL.
While Fridgen had a number of talented players in his first five years as coach, the last two were not very good.

Much better schedule? Who cares! How was Union's schedule last year? Honestly RPI's NC home schedule stinks this year. You seem to skip Fridge's seasons 6 through 10 of which 4 of 5 were over .500 and 3 of those with over 20 wins. 5 out of his 12 years resulted in trips to the ECAC's. I enjoyed going to Lake Placid a hell of a lot more than watching a one and done player playing for the Florida Panthers. And ALL of these results came with a much smaller budget and much less administrative support. Appert has done some good things and he isn't going anywhere for now but to say there have been vast improvements from Fridgen's tenure is false.

ServinisScores
05-11-2014, 11:42 AM
...You seem to skip Fridge's seasons 6 through 10 of which 4 of 5 were over .500 and 3 of those with over 20 wins. 5 out of his 12 years resulted in trips to the ECAC's. I enjoyed going to Lake Placid a hell of a lot more than watching a one and done player playing for the Florida Panthers. And ALL of these results came with a much smaller budget and much less administrative support.

Perfectly put John.

FlagDUDE08
05-11-2014, 12:08 PM
Ticket sales? Who on this board cares about ticket sales? Let's talk about that in January if this team does its usual mid-season swoon. Both coaches discussed in this debate have brought in some very talented players. I still believe that Fridg's last two seasons were an excuse to move him out so Dr Jackson could find someone who fit her idea of a good face for the Tute. If you recall MacDonald had cancer and that was about the time of the divIII debate and that hurt recruiting for at least a couple of years. Fridg had 2 bad years and a winning record. Seth has had 4-5 bad years and a losing record. He will be here at least 2 more years. It will be interesting to see where the program is then. I'm still optimistic, but realistic.

I'm sure there is at least one poster that has been involved with student union economics. And if you really want to talk about a January swoon, let us not forget that we had our first non-Freakout sellout since 2006 vs. BU. Recall that men's hockey is one of the few profitable ventures for the student union, so that is why ticket sales are so important. Numbers do not lie; both in terms of success rate and viewing. If people are still watching the team, obviously they are satisfied, regardless of the choking.

FlagDUDE08
05-11-2014, 12:16 PM
Much better schedule? Who cares! How was Union's schedule last year? Honestly RPI's NC home schedule stinks this year. You seem to skip Fridge's seasons 6 through 10 of which 4 of 5 were over .500 and 3 of those with over 20 wins. 5 out of his 12 years resulted in trips to the ECAC's. I enjoyed going to Lake Placid a hell of a lot more than watching a one and done player playing for the Florida Panthers. And ALL of these results came with a much smaller budget and much less administrative support. Appert has done some good things and he isn't going anywhere for now but to say there have been vast improvements from Fridgen's tenure is false.

Improvement is relative and depends upon your metric. Yours is success within the league, and your assessment is valid. Others is success against either specific teams or in specific games, and can make the same point. Others is the revenue that is coming into the student union, and in their view, a good job is being done. At this point, once everyone determines what they view to be success, we can agree to disagree and move forward. No one's metric is better or worse than the other, despite the insistence of certain people.

Ralph Baer
05-12-2014, 01:25 AM
Today is 12 May 2014. There are 145 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 4 October 2014 for the start of next season.

Jasma
05-12-2014, 10:18 AM
I'm sure there is at least one poster that has been involved with student union economics. And if you really want to talk about a January swoon, let us not forget that we had our first non-Freakout sellout since 2006 vs. BU. Recall that men's hockey is one of the few profitable ventures for the student union, so that is why ticket sales are so important. Numbers do not lie; both in terms of success rate and viewing. If people are still watching the team, obviously they are satisfied, regardless of the choking.

I will give you the first point. There may be a couple of people on this forum who care about whether or not the hockey program generates revenue for the Union. The reasons for wanting a successful flagship sports program are many, but if your main sport is hockey, revenue generation or profit margin can't be one of the top reasons. There is simply not that much money in college hockey. The main reasons are the benefit to the athletes, the entertainment value for the RPI community and the school spirit it should generate. Where revenue is a major factor is in the uptick in student applications the national and international visibility the school receives from a successful program and the resulting rise in alumni donations and the purchase of team clothing, etc. And what most people will use as a yardstick for a successful program is wins and losses and championships. To a lesser degree most fans will also want to see top talent that moves on to the next level and wins over rivals. This program has won very few championships of any kind since 1995. It's record against Union - the team's chief rival now - has be terrible the past 5-6 years. Some fans will also consider the record against nationally ranked teams and RPI's record against many of those squads the past few years has been OK. Wins over BU, UNH, Denver, Cornell and a few others are significant, especially for a lower echelon team such as RPI. RPI has indeed become a mediocre, middle of the pack program the past 15 years. Numbers do not lie, but they can be interpreted differently. The numbers in terms of wins and losses has been mediocre most of the last 15 years. The attendance figures have not been stellar either. The big crowds we have seen the past few years come against top teams and traditional rivals that bring many of their own fans. Cornell, Clarkson, Union, and others with large alumni bases in this area are the teams that draw well. Attendance against many of the other teams is often well below 3,000. RPI used to be number 1 or 2 in attendance in the ECAC. The past few years we are more like 4 or 5 behind Cornell, Yale and Q'Pac and about the same as Clarkson. Wins generate crowds, just ask Union. Their road crowd jumped dramatically the past two seasons.
I would be very surprised if the majority of RPI fans attending home games would say they are satisfied with the state of the program.

FlagDUDE08
05-12-2014, 05:20 PM
I will give you the first point. There may be a couple of people on this forum who care about whether or not the hockey program generates revenue for the Union. The reasons for wanting a successful flagship sports program are many, but if your main sport is hockey, revenue generation or profit margin can't be one of the top reasons. There is simply not that much money in college hockey. The main reasons are the benefit to the athletes, the entertainment value for the RPI community and the school spirit it should generate. Where revenue is a major factor is in the uptick in student applications the national and international visibility the school receives from a successful program and the resulting rise in alumni donations and the purchase of team clothing, etc. And what most people will use as a yardstick for a successful program is wins and losses and championships. To a lesser degree most fans will also want to see top talent that moves on to the next level and wins over rivals. This program has won very few championships of any kind since 1995. It's record against Union - the team's chief rival now - has be terrible the past 5-6 years. Some fans will also consider the record against nationally ranked teams and RPI's record against many of those squads the past few years has been OK. Wins over BU, UNH, Denver, Cornell and a few others are significant, especially for a lower echelon team such as RPI. RPI has indeed become a mediocre, middle of the pack program the past 15 years. Numbers do not lie, but they can be interpreted differently. The numbers in terms of wins and losses has been mediocre most of the last 15 years. The attendance figures have not been stellar either. The big crowds we have seen the past few years come against top teams and traditional rivals that bring many of their own fans. Cornell, Clarkson, Union, and others with large alumni bases in this area are the teams that draw well. Attendance against many of the other teams is often well below 3,000. RPI used to be number 1 or 2 in attendance in the ECAC. The past few years we are more like 4 or 5 behind Cornell, Yale and Q'Pac and about the same as Clarkson. Wins generate crowds, just ask Union. Their road crowd jumped dramatically the past two seasons.
I would be very surprised if the majority of RPI fans attending home games would say they are satisfied with the state of the program.

Perhaps it's just me, but the only times I really see attendance figures below 3000 these days is when the students are on break. The last two years of Fridgen, 2500 was commonplace. We've been hitting 3100-3200 quite a bit lately. Sure, it isn't the 4000 that I'm sure certain people whose primary concern was attendance would like to see, but it is relative.

You're not going to get any argument from me about this team's mediocrity. My point is that, assuming no blind faith, support has to be given for some reason.

Wicked Slappaahs
05-12-2014, 06:48 PM
I understand, and don't want to be argumentative, but at the end of the day, if the performance isn't there - and by any metric, it isn't - does any of that matter? Hell, I would say all of these players leaving for the NHL went too early by at least a year - and if everything is A-o-K in the room, I don't see them leaving so soon. That part doesn't make sense to me.

The last sentence is ignorant in that it completely ignores today's reality In the NHL -both for teams looking to build rosters in the era of collective bargaining AND for players looking to get their clock ticking toward their first pro free agent contracts where they can cash in, if they've had success in the A. The minors are littered with kids who arguably "left too early" to chase pro money. Anyone seen TJ Fox lately??

turk181
05-12-2014, 09:25 PM
Breaking: Princeton head coach Bob Prier has resigned..... https://twitter.com/MikeMcMahonCHN

turk181
05-12-2014, 09:31 PM
Bob Prier has resigned as the head coach of Princeton men's hockey team, Ford Family Director of Athletics Gary D. Walters announced..... http://www.goprincetontigers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=46867&SPID=4264&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209494901&DB_OEM_ID=10600