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ibanezist00
03-09-2014, 09:58 PM
I expect we will hear all the cliches again. All the reasons that a team we should have handled easily wanted it more, played harder, came to win, etc. I have followed RPI hockey for 50 years. I am still hopeful that before I call it quits, i will once again see a nationally prominent team at RPI. I am personally in not the best frame of mind right now-from things outside of hockey-but I must say, enough is enough is enough. We have wasted chances with good teams and even finer boys who are superb players. I have a lot of questions but one that bothers me a lot. We recruit wonderful boys to play at RPI. At least someone thinks they are good enough to sign years ahead of time. They come to RPI with hopes and dreams-and they are not fresh faced 17 year olds-they have spent extra years honing their skills in places like the USHL against other tough competition and are often several years older. And they come to Troy-and they get very little chance to play that first year. How many freshmen suited up for this entire weekend? Could they have performed any worse? Are they not good enough to play or are they too young to play? I see younger kids playing NHL and AHL level hockey. Sports are never static-even the best dynasties had to make changes to stay on top. Just my very depressed 2 right now. My upset over RPI hockey will abate-it always has. But with other things that have happened, I cannot see any silver lining right now.

Echoing LTSatch on this one; you also have my thoughts sent your way.

QUAlum2004
03-09-2014, 10:01 PM
This is the first time I've thought Appert was in danger. That team looked awfully good on paper. I'd have to know whether there are problems internally or issues between him an the AD and/or admissions.

Donato should be be fired. Prier has another year, but that won't help (that's year one After Caloff) -- he'll need two. Pecknold obviously has a job for life; he, Gaudet, Vaughn and Schafer can name a retirement date in 2040 and their schools will be fine with it.

Throw Keith Allain in there as well with the job for life.

LTsatch
03-09-2014, 10:03 PM
Throw Keith Allain in there as well with the job for life.

Very true, and he is mellowing with age!

1988
03-09-2014, 10:34 PM
I think it gets to the goals and objectives of the program. Are we a team that wants to get to the top at any cost, or are we a team that values our senior players above all? I have no evidence for saying this, but I suspect that we didn't play our freshmen not because they aren't capable but because of some sentimental reason that tells us we must put our older players out there.

With all due respect I would say that's a stretch. I have a feeling Halpren, Rabbani, Beauregard, Smith to name a few would disagree with you on seniors receiving playing time because of sentimental reasons. Maybe at the mite levels of hockey your kid gets playing time because you buy the coach a few beers on travel weekends but at this level you play because you earned your ice time whether you are a senior or a freshman.

ServinisScores
03-09-2014, 10:46 PM
I expect we will hear all the cliches again. All the reasons that a team we should have handled easily wanted it more, played harder, came to win, etc. I have followed RPI hockey for 50 years. I am still hopeful that before I call it quits, i will once again see a nationally prominent team at RPI. I am personally in not the best frame of mind right now-from things outside of hockey-but I must say, enough is enough is enough. We have wasted chances with good teams and even finer boys who are superb players. I have a lot of questions but one that bothers me a lot. We recruit wonderful boys to play at RPI. At least someone thinks they are good enough to sign years ahead of time. They come to RPI with hopes and dreams-and they are not fresh faced 17 year olds-they have spent extra years honing their skills in places like the USHL against other tough competition and are often several years older. And they come to Troy-and they get very little chance to play that first year. How many freshmen suited up for this entire weekend? Could they have performed any worse? Are they not good enough to play or are they too young to play? I see younger kids playing NHL and AHL level hockey. Sports are never static-even the best dynasties had to make changes to stay on top. Just my very depressed 2 right now. My upset over RPI hockey will abate-it always has. But with other things that have happened, I cannot see any silver lining right now.

Well said Doc - I hope everything works out for you outside of the rink.

****ing evidence for me - good recruiting classes aren't translating into a culture of excellence or even above-average performance; the half baked efforts in the playoffs at home; the regression of the program stature to be a clear 2nd fiddle to Union and on par with traditional ECAC doormats like Brown, Dartmouth...

rpi82
03-10-2014, 12:47 AM
We all fell for it - the handsome, energetic young coach with the multi-national championships pedigree as an assistant would lead us back to the promised land. He was so friendly and well-spoken that he seemed just the kind of guy you'd want as a neighbor. We were so infatuated that some with the greatest man-crushes even deemed him Our Great Coach before he'd achieved anything on his own. Well, it's becoming increasingly apparent that we only saw what we wanted to see. RPI, with it's rigorous yet limited in scope academics (we aren't the Engineers for nothing even if most of the players are still management majors) is not an easy job. However, that doesn't explain the wide fluctuations in performance and, worse yet, perceived effort. It doesn't explain failure to adjust and respond mid-game, resulting in painful losses in games that were seemingly under control or at least within reach. Odd strategies such as the 5 forward PP seem to become ingrained even when they aren't working. All teams have good and bad games, but our lows seem to come at particularly bad times. I made it up to Troy for last season's playoff debacle and intended to do the same this weekend before family demands fortunately kept me away.

I will always be blindly loyal to my alma mater, but Seth now needs to show us that he is deserving of the great faith we had in him. I gave him a pass after the Pirri/D'Amigo departures unexpectedly set back the plan for a few years. I'll even give him a partial pass for this season because of Kasdorf's injury. However, the pattern has to change because patience and acceptance of the same mistakes are not infinite no matter how much we like the guy on a personal level.

Ralph Baer
03-10-2014, 01:37 AM
My main current dissatisfaction is with the 5-forward power play which is others have said just doesn't work. Ironically he recently has been using a two-forward powerplay for the second unit with Bokenfohr up front. The other problem major problem is that we just don't seem to adjust as well between periods as other teams.

I thought that this year was going to be the year that we would at least make the ECAC final four. :( I have the feeling that next years team will not look as good on paper since I suspect that we will have at least one loss to the pros.

Ralph Baer
03-10-2014, 01:39 AM
Today is 10 March 2014. There are 208 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 4 October 2014 for the start of next season.

hrbrendan
03-10-2014, 01:53 AM
Well said Doc - I hope everything works out for you outside of the rink.

****ing evidence for me - good recruiting classes aren't translating into a culture of excellence or even above-average performance; the half baked efforts in the playoffs at home; the regression of the program stature to be a clear 2nd fiddle to Union and on par with traditional ECAC doormats like Brown, Dartmouth...


They're translating into exactly what happens on the ice. I stood next to Dartmouth as they were going out for the 2nd period tonight and Gaudet was screaming over and over "this ****ing team sucks, let's go" as they got on the ice. That is the level of respect this team commands from one of the revered coaches in the league. I've played and coached college hockey. I mentioned that to my brother when I got to my seat, who also played hockey for a long time and it seemed really odd. Appert sends a message, like a kindergarten teacher, that things are ok and just do what we're supposed to do and we will win because it's the "engineer way". The real world doesn't work that way. That's not the engineer way, because engineers fix problems, they don't pretend they don't exist. That's not how competitive games work. Unfortunately, there is a coach, and another team on the other side trying to beat you. They will adapt to survive, and because their coach isn't decorative, they will win. There are better coaches on d3 teams in the US, and on junior teams throughout Canada whom are more qualified. I've seen mens league teams coordinate their talent on the power play better than Appert has. It's embarrassing to support a team the way me and my friends do every week, while watching other schools adapt and improve whist we tread water. Every year we move away from the "hockey history" RPI has, the closer they get to hockey irrelevance, and it's a ****ing ****ty ride for those of us who have been doing it for a long time. At this point, while watching a team that used to be a D-3 doormat clean up on a trophy RPI hasn't won in 20 years, it's embarrassing. It used to be exciting to go to a game. There used to be a band who led fans in cheers at the end of the ice. It was electric. It didn't sound like an uncoordinated pile of dog ****. No acoustics engineers at RPI I guess, as the band in the corner is worse than none at all. It echoes like the ****ing Grand Canyon. There used to be decent food at the snack bar. Now we get inedible trash, 4 jerseys a year, and a high five on the way out the door after watching the only high seed in the ecac lose at home 3 years in a row ever. Someone should clue Mr. Appert in that pretending to be good isn't the engineer way. It's not the RPI way. Engineers don't pretend a problem doesn't exist, they fix it. Seth's not an engineer. He can't solve problems, and he needs to go.

drshoen
03-10-2014, 08:38 AM
I expect we will hear all the cliches again. All the reasons that a team we should have handled easily wanted it more, played harder, came to win, etc. I have followed RPI hockey for 50 years. I am still hopeful that before I call it quits, i will once again see a nationally prominent team at RPI. I am personally in not the best frame of mind right now-from things outside of hockey-but I must say, enough is enough is enough. We have wasted chances with good teams and even finer boys who are superb players. I have a lot of questions but one that bothers me a lot. We recruit wonderful boys to play at RPI. At least someone thinks they are good enough to sign years ahead of time. They come to RPI with hopes and dreams-and they are not fresh faced 17 year olds-they have spent extra years honing their skills in places like the USHL against other tough competition and are often several years older. And they come to Troy-and they get very little chance to play that first year. How many freshmen suited up for this entire weekend? Could they have performed any worse? Are they not good enough to play or are they too young to play? I see younger kids playing NHL and AHL level hockey. Sports are never static-even the best dynasties had to make changes to stay on top. Just my very depressed 2 right now. My upset over RPI hockey will abate-it always has. But with other things that have happened, I cannot see any silver lining right now.

Regardless of team affiliations, my best wishes to you and Jenny, Doc

jmhusker
03-10-2014, 08:39 AM
I think a cooling down period is in order before making any new declarations on OGR (Our Good Recruiter) which is more ad more how I've come to view SA over the past few seasons. I stopped expecting a trip to LP after the SLU/Clarkson weekend when we decided to play less than 20 players instead of sit one of the Union game suspendees out the entire weekend and then got smoked on Friday night. And I didn't go to Providence for the Brown game this year because I just couldn't justify the 90 minute ride to see another night of Jeckyl and Hyde. I'm not sure the verdict is in on SA however the judge just came in from his chambers and I think I hear the Jury lining up outside the door.

Seth was a goalie. Patrick Roy aside, I can't name many ex-goalies that made great coaches. All those years in hockey learning skills and strategies that for the most part do not apply at all to the other 18 skaters on the ice. Forwards with good defensive skills and defensemen usually work out better. How much longer will it be until OVIE frees up Adam Oates for us? Can we all suffer through mediocrity that much longer?

jmhusker
03-10-2014, 08:42 AM
Doc,

I hope whatever you are dealing with works out for you. You are one of the main reasons I keep coming back to read this board. Good health to you and your family.

Ralph Baer
03-10-2014, 09:07 AM
Doc,

I hope whatever you are dealing with works out for you. You are one of the main reasons I keep coming back to read this board. Good health to you and your family.

Yes, all the best DrD as I have said in recent emails. You do provide a lot of insight here. It's too bad that RPI hockey ahs not been pleasant escapism recently, and that other school that you have listed in Boston had a very poor year also.

BTW, I doubt that we can afford Oates. I would hope that SA gives Kirk MacD some freehand with the offense as I would think that he would be good at this, however I suspect that he hasn't.

jericho
03-10-2014, 09:10 AM
I am in agreement that maybe Appert isn't the best fit for this program. We've had too much inconsistency during games and if you look at the overall performance season after season (finishing #2 last season to fall on home ice yet again, falling to the #12 seed on home ice, finishing 10th one season and then #2 the next season... seems to just be a pattern of wild swings), but my question to the bigger naysayers than I is: say Appert is actually ousted. Who is available to take his place that we think can do a better job? I'm legitimately asking this question because I do not really know what the answer is. I also refuse to put it all entirely on him because there's only so much a coach can do, but I'm also certain his coaching is a factor in our inconsistency.

More specific thought: why, why, WHY, WHY! do we have five forwards on the power play, all the time? It hurts us more than it helps us, as evidenced by the fact that Haggerty had no idea what to do when the puck came to him at the blue line tonight, and then the ensuing 2-on-0 SHG for Dartmouth. The only time five forwards should be out on the ice on the man advantage is when the team has a 2-man advantage.

I hear George Gwozdecky's available.

Ralph Baer
03-10-2014, 09:12 AM
I hear George Gwozdecky's available.

Remember that he taught SA all that he knows. :)

realet
03-10-2014, 09:16 AM
The frustration certainly is mounting, and this year it may not have been so much the "different year, same result" factor as much as the manner in which the team bowed out this year despite those past results. At some point only so much can really be forgiven, when that point is being so tantalizingly close to getting over the hump and then falling back to previous form, it really enhances the frustration beyond what it might have been otherwise.

For those that were listening last night I tried my very best to be evenhanded in my post-game analysis and I bit my tongue on the word that I really wanted to use - I think I did, anyway, I was pretty tired, but the word was gutless.

Appert is not going anywhere this offseason and calling for his head is pointless. He's not going to be let go right after signing an extension that has him on the payroll through the end of the decade. But the leash is getting shorter and the alumni/fanbase mood is souring quickly. Something is going to have to change soon because what we saw last night left a very bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. That's the kind of result, coupled with results in the recent past, that starts people not renewing season tickets and drifting away from the program.

jericho
03-10-2014, 09:25 AM
Remember that he taught SA all that he knows. :)

There is a friend of the family, who has since passed away, that always said: "I taught him everything he knows, but not everything that I know."

johnk
03-10-2014, 09:26 AM
The RPI hockey program is on a decade long downward spiral. On ice performance, overall game entertainment value and relevance in college hockey are all in pretty rough shape. The ECAC tournament has left Lake Placid, moved to Albany, left Albany and moved to Atlantic City and now back to Lake Placid all without 1 appearence from RPI. Since RPI has made it, every ECAC team has made it at least TWICE!

Now to last night. Its easy to Monday morning quarterback but the way they came out for the 3rd period was obvious in the first 90 seconds. Content to dump out of the zone and let Dartmouth dictate the pace. Not what I expected after a late 2nd period goal gave all of the momentum to RPI. Unexcusable. The use of the timeout. I don't agree with using a timeout that early unless your team is spiraling out of control. To use it with a one goal lead in the 2nd period to discuss a brief 5 on 3 is a waste. We said it at the time it was happening and sure enough it came back to bite them. That team needed to be settled down as soon as it became 4-3. Enough has been said about the 5 forward PP so I will not repeat.

Solutions. On ice performance, I don't know. Next years class doesn't look all that impressive, on paper. We will see. This years freshman class is the poorest I have ever seen. Not sure if any of the powers at RPI really even care that this school was once a national power. I don't know if they care that they are losing fans. After last night, I belive the combination of years of frustration and high expectation for this season will cost them more fans. Matter of fact, it already has. Game experience. Get students involved. Get the band away from the corner and back on the stage where they belong. Concessions could be better but not a big deal. I guess winning might breed a better environment.

Hokydad
03-10-2014, 09:39 AM
Seth was a goalie. Patrick Roy aside, I can't name many ex-goalies that made great coaches. All those years in hockey learning skills and strategies that for the most part do not apply at all to the other 18 skaters on the ice. Forwards with good defensive skills and defensemen usually work out better. How much longer will it be until OVIE frees up Adam Oates for us? Can we all suffer through mediocrity that much longer?[/QUOTE]

sean walsh

AspyDad
03-10-2014, 09:42 AM
Statement by AspyDad –

While this is a terrible loss for the Cherry and White, the sun will rise again. For anyone to compare tenure of coaches is apple and oranges. Appert took the program over just after there was a question if it would become D-3. The previous coach had local products basically handed to him that were pro-material that kept him going for several years after. Also inherited a team from Buddy that was good.

Posters can ***** all they want and have every right to but let’s remember RPI is a technical school. If I’m a recruit and Yale, Harvard and RPI are pursuing me I think the Tute (with all due) respect is at a disadvantage. Seth has won many recruit battles and will in the future. All you posters with the cheapshots about back- up goalie, brlycream ought to grow up. He has brought good college hockey players in here. Trend was the other way.

Also let’s get over where the band is located. The band sounds great but it’s not the end all be all. I admire their dedication but c’mon.. it’s over.

As far as SA developing players, Polacek came in as a walk on and became Hobey Baker candidate. Haggerty went from fourth line guy on US U-18 to the to one of leading scorers in the nation and Hobey candidate. JDA, Pirri, Foss, Merth etc. playing pro. This is a sign that he has brought in good talent.

With regard to five forwards on PP. BC does it all the time. Works sometimes, doesn’t sometimes.

For the guy who won’t take the 90 min. ride, thanks for your support. Get in the car, go to an alumni event and tell Coach your concerns before the game.

Lastly, Coach is going nowhere. Six years left on the contract that most of us was glad he signed. Kasdorf back, etc. etc.

My best wishes to #23, #12, #28, #3 and one of the true nice guys #11. God speed.