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AC Bulldog
03-02-2014, 12:50 PM
I wanted to take some time before I commented on the Adrian College vs College of St Scholastica on Saturday night. So I have waited a day to make my comments.

First off I want to congratulate CSS for a well-played, exciting game. AC has played them three times this year and both teams are 1-1-1. Both teams are well coached and all the games have come right down to the end before being decided. With that being said now I need to comment on last nightís game.

With teams of this caliber playing in the league semi-final game itís sad to say we did not have and officiating crew that was of the same caliber. The crew is as follows:

Referee(s): Karl Olm, Jason Swenson
Asst. Referee(s): Paul Rigby, Eric Frank

Swenson appearedto do a OK job and allowed the players to play without any real problems. Rigby, who has served as referee may times here, was doing all he could to direct Frank and assist both referees. Frank was in over his head. He has been here other times and every time appears to be out of position and very weak in his line calls.

Now we move on to Karl Olm. Olm has also been to AC a number of times before and once again Saturday night proved HE wants to be the center of attention and not the play of the players. Two controversial decisions he made showed his lack of respect for the players and for those who are assigned to assist in the game.

1. At the end of the 2nd period CSS player #7 Matt Malenstyn fired the puck from the blue line as time was running out. One would assume the goal was by him as the green light came on just afterwards. HOWEVER the goal was NOT by him but instead by #25 Dylan Nowakowski who was posted next to the net when Mattís shot was made. In the video, which is available on AC website, you can clearly see Dylan poking at the puck AFTER the green light is on. Can you see the puck cross the goal line, no? But based on Dylanís poking at it and being credited with the goal one has to assume he was the one who poked it across the line AFTER the green light is on.
The issue with Olm is he NEVER bothered to check with the goal judge, he kind of skated around looking at his other officials and allowed the goal. It seems like the least he could have done is consult with the goal judge and discuss the play and see why the red light was not on. As we all know you canít turn the red light on AFTER time has expired. Olm took it upon himself to be the center of attention once again. Yes he is the referee but he does have others to assist him. With all that was going on at the moment at what point did he hear the horn?

2. In the third period AC put the puck in the net and the red light comes on. Once again Olm decides to be the center of attention and waves the goal off. This time, to his credit, he consults with the goal judge. The judge tells him the puck was across the line. Olm asked if the puck was under the goalieís pads and the judge says no, it was not when it crossed the line. Olm decided the goal judge didnít see it right and waved the goal off. Now could I see it from my seat, no. BUT we do have goal judges for a reason. I guess in Olmís situation we donít need to have any.

I would like to ask commissioner Dr. Steven Larson and director of official, is Karl Olm, really one of the top four referees in the league deserving of serving in the capacity for a semi-final game? If so itís a pretty said statement on the quality of the officials in the NCHA. I hope you are out recruiting new officials if that is the case.

Did Olm cost AC the game? Maybe, maybe not, who knows, thatís not to point of this post. Itís time the NCHA to upgrade the quality of some of their referees in the upcoming years. The quality of play has made huge jumps the last couple of years and all indications are that will not change in the future. However the quality of the officials has not kept pace.

Commission Larson, I ask you what are the future plans for officials in the NCHA????

Hopefully the Bulldogs will get an at-large bid and have a chance to redeem themselves.

GO BULLDOGS

Hammer
03-02-2014, 12:52 PM
<strike>This should probably go in our thread instead. Or the NCHA thread that's floating around here somewhere.</strike>

Hammer
03-02-2014, 01:05 PM
I don't get nearly as amped up about stuff like this as I used to. But the more I think about this one, the madder I get.

Here's the list of officials I've seen at Arrington for NCHA games, off the top of my head. I'm sure I'm missing a couple, but this will get us where we need to be for purposes of this discussion. I have not factored in the additional officials serving as linesmen that would be added to this list.

2 Olsons (unless one guy was wearing 2 sets of stripes at the same time a couple weeks ago. Not likely)
Peschel
Solosvett
Tanner
Trate
Stafford
Swenson
Smevoll
Hatinger
Olm


There's 11 right there that I've seen in Arrington over the last two years, without trying. For the most part, I've rated them by the quality of their work. I understand sending one (or both) of the Olsons to work the SNC game, as SNC is the top seed. But for the other semi-final, regardless of where it's located, unless Peschel, Solosvett, Tanner and Trate are all either in jail, in a hospital, or otherwise incapacitated, there is no reason the bottom three on the above list should be within 100 miles of an ice arena. To assign the referees that they did for this weekend shows horrifically poor decision making on the part of the conference.

icechips
03-03-2014, 09:36 AM
I've attended a few games at AC and agree the officials performance needs to be reviewed using game film because it is subpar. Not to blame zebras for poor play by teams, but positioning is critical for sight lines and staying OUT of play. I've seen too many times officials running into players as far out as the dots!

AC Bulldog
03-03-2014, 02:22 PM
Icechips, thank you for your comment. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one seeing how much out of position they appear to be at times. I wonder how some of the people at the other NCHA schools view this? Do others feel the quality of the NCHA officials is up to the quality of play in the league? It would be nice to hear from other venues. Wonder how many of them read these threads? I bet none of them would ever admit to it.

altazo
03-03-2014, 03:52 PM
Sounds like the refs didn't do the best job this weekend at Adrian (this thread isn't the first I've heard of this)... but this thread is sour grapes.

My recommendation would be deletion....

AC Bulldog
03-03-2014, 04:17 PM
Not "sour grapes" just looking to see what others around the league think of the quality of the officials in the NCHA. They just appear to me to not be up to the quality I would like to see in the league. Maybe others think they are fine. Maybe the don't think they are fine. Hoping to hear comments from other around the league as to their views. I only see them here at Adrian.

UCBadger
03-03-2014, 04:35 PM
From the Sat night Thread:

"The refs are really trying to give XXX this game....."

and

"we've had some god-awful officiating....."

Different posters, different games.

(not saying they are without cause.......)

altazo
03-03-2014, 04:50 PM
The refs in the SNC vs LF game on Saturday night missed a bad hit to the head on SNC's Michael Hill, which led to Hill taking a penalty 30 seconds later. But, SNC killed off that power play opportunity, ended up out-shooting LF 3 to 1 on the evening, and won 6-0. So, I guess I'm not going to start a thread about it...

I think the refs in D3 hockey don't make much money and do the best that they can. I would also wager that the vast majority of D3 refs never matriculated to a level of play in their own hockey days at all similar to the level of play NCAA D3 is now at. In other words, it may be difficult for some of them to accurately follow this level of play, as good intentioned as they may be. Remember in 2012 when the NFL had NCAA D3 football officials working games to start the season? Those guys weren't trying to blow it, but the speed of the game was too much for them to handle. Kinda the same idea.

Hammer
03-03-2014, 06:08 PM
Of the 11 referees I've named, I would classify the top 8-9 on that list as "adequate" or better for a Division III level of play. Sure, there's going to be blown calls here and there, just like at any level. Unfortunately, one of the referees that does not make that cut showed up and ruined Saturday night's game at Arrington. Karl Olm is not qualified to wear stripes at Foot Locker, let alone on NCAA ice. This isn't the first butcher job I've seen out of him. He should not have been assigned to do either semi-final game, either in DePere or Adrian. And for the sake of both teams next weekend, I sure hope he's not in DePere in five days, either.

Two years ago I began working our NCAA Women's varsity games, and our ACHA Division I club games, mostly as a goal judge, and occasionally in the penalty box. Instead of *****ing about the officials, I figured I'd get my *** down there and try to help out, even if it's just a little bit. Now, we all know that's not remotely on the level of responsibility and skill necessary for skating out there with these teams, but given my occupation, that's as far as I can contribute, especially this time of the year. During a couple of those games, I've had to have conversations with a couple referees about questionable plays on the goal line, as well as a time or two in the penalty box, and in each case, I've found them to conduct themselves in a professional manner. I cannot say the same for what I saw on Saturday night. For the record, no, I did not work Saturday night's game.

This part probably belongs in the Adrian thread, but it's going here anyway. The last four seasons we've had our seasons ended by SNC (twice in the NCAA tournament), MSOE (in OT on our own ice), and Oswego (in OT, at home, in the NCAA tournament). In each and every case I've had no problem with the end result. I can walk away from a tough loss without a problem 99.9% of the time. Go ahead and read what I've written about our losses in the past. I hate complaining after a loss. It doesn't sound good. But this one wasn't right, and it was absolutely no fault of St. Scholastica whatsoever. That's why it's such a **** shame it had to end this way.

MW4Bucky&SNC
03-03-2014, 08:10 PM
Thankfully it looks highly doubtful Adrian's season will end this way so that's good at least (although I assume you'll be pulling hard for SNC Saturday night for this reason) because it would suck to have to choke this feeling down the entire offseason. The only time I've really been upset with the officials in a season ending loss for SNC was against Oswego in the national Semis up in Superior in 2007. One of their guys made a run at Lonny Forrester near the boards and launched his body while leading with the elbow to drill him in the back of the head. Worst non-call on an obvious major I've ever seen but it wasn't a direct ruling on goals like you are talking about.

MW4Bucky&SNC
03-03-2014, 08:23 PM
On the issue of overall quality, it's a tough job and the game seems a little fast and big sometimes for a few of these guys. I don't know the solution because I think it's tough to get good help. I never miss a call from my seat but they probably wouldn't either and I doubt I'd get them all right from the ice. As long as they do their best to be fair we'll complain about it some but we'll live with it.

MidWestWheels
03-05-2014, 09:52 AM
It would be really nice to see Adrian get in. This program deserves it. They do take a lot of heat but think about the run they have had, eliminated or not. They deserve pool C

daveo
03-06-2014, 06:26 PM
It's possible that Adrian gets in, but wouldn't teams that make it farther than semifinals be a better choice? The whole idea of playoffs is to reward teams for making it farther into the post season.

PSUChamps2001
03-06-2014, 06:29 PM
It's possible that Adrian gets in, but wouldn't teams that make it farther than semifinals be a better choice? The whole idea of playoffs is to reward teams for making it farther into the post season.

so the other 25 games mean what compared to the 1 or 2 post season :rolleyes:

altazo
03-06-2014, 08:17 PM
I still think Adrian is in, and they deserve to be. I think this season is a clear 7E-4W split (personally I think this season the west has it's best case ever for a 6-5 split.) St Thomas being ranked above Adrian in the latest NCAA poll doesn't help their cause, but if the home teams hold serve in the west, they are a lock.

Hammer
03-06-2014, 08:40 PM
St. Thomas makes it too interesting for my taste, now that Gustavus is sitting in the #6 spot. Suppose GAC pops St. Thomas on Saturday night. GAC gets the Pool A. But then does St. Thomas still hold that #2 rank over Adrian? Now what?

I think we might be able to withstand 1 upset this weekend. 2 of them and we're f-d, especially if SNC eats it.

seaturtle
03-06-2014, 09:55 PM
Pool C Comparison - If GAC beats St.T

St. Thomas vs. Adrian

Win % - Adrian
SOS - St. Thomas
H2H - Nil
Ranked - St. Thomas - 3-1 vs. GAC 0-1 vs. WSTP 0-1 vs. SNC 0-1 vs. WEC
Ranked - Adrian - 1-1 SNC 1-0 vs. GAC 1-0 vs. Genny
Ranked - advantage Adrian
COP - St. Thomas - 7-2-1 (assuming loss in Championship game) Adrian 5-2-2
COP - advantage St. Thomas
Last 25% - St. Thomas 5-2 Adrian 5-1-1
Last 25% - advantage Adrian

What seems to be a heavy weight on last 25% and Adrian up 3-2 with a MIAC St. Thomas loss, I would say Adrian is in.....

seaturtle
03-06-2014, 10:07 PM
When adding another loss to all other possible teams - St. Norbert is #1, Trinity #2, Adrian / Norwich #3.

Geneseo
(adding a loss to Oswego) Ranked 3-3 vs. 3-1
COP - 4-1 (loss to Nazareth) vs. 3-0
SOS - Win
Win% - Loss
last 25% - 6-1
H2H - 0-1

Adrian has comparison - 4-2 win a head to head win

seaturtle
03-06-2014, 10:13 PM
Norwich
Win% - loss
SOS - win
COP - tie (MSOE) 1-0 vs. 4-0
Ranked - loss 2-2 (with loss to ECACW Champ Babson) vs 3-1
H2H - Nil
last 25% - 5-1-1 5-1-1