UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

The sky isn't falling down and the end of the world is not this week. Hopefully they can get their legs underneath them and get things going back in the right direction again. It is unfortunate, but the empty weekend they have coming up is in 2 weeks, and they face Merrimack and the playoffs after that. Hindsight says it would have been great to have had that last week or the week before. Don't question their intensity or enthusiasm. They care more than you do about results. There is not a person there that doesn't care.

Your point is taken, and I would at least agree that the players care more than any of us about the results. But let's be totally frank here. Let's assume UVM is a talented and somewhat underrated team. We can point to any number of factors to explain that, but it's probably safest to look at them in broad and general terms and conclude that they are a good but not great team. Kind of like most of the league, actually. And they were the road team this past weekend. Did they not have regular practices the last two weeks, even if they didn't play the previous weekend? They had a close to 4 hour bus ride within 24 hours of the faceoff, and may have spent at least one (if not two) nights this past weekend in quarters that were not their own. And according to at least one poster, they may have had a late arrival at the arena for Friday night's game due to heavier-than-usual traffic coming back over the General Sullivan bridge.

Those are an awful lot of intangibles working against them, and on top of that the host team was coming off a home sweep of the #14 team in the country (at the time) the previous weekend. One team had every reason to come roaring out of the blocks on Friday night, and the other had every available excuse in the book not to. As it turned out, the former team came out stale and uninspired, even by the measure of their usually-protective coach ... and the latter team sucked it up, and put on a dynamic and committed performance, from the start of the first period Friday through to the end of the third period Saturday. And were rightly awarded for their efforts.

Using the word "quit" can create some bad feelings when taken literally, although there are certainly times when it literally fits, and we need look no further than the most recent Super Bowl to see a team (and certainly its key player) who had every reason to compete to the figurative death, and certainly cared more than any of their fans about the outcome of the game, and from Manning's perspective the impact of the outcome on his so-called "legacy". Yet they came up very short, and I think most observers would say Denver "quit" at some point WAY too early in the second half. Even if they were only outscored 14-8 over the period of the game they "quit" on.

I think the best explanation of "quit" offered on this thread after this weekend came from Greg, who correctly pointed out that every time UVM increased their intensity when challenged by UNH, the home team was umable (or unwilling?) to match that uptick. It was pretty obvious to me, albeit watching on TV Friday, and I weighed in and said so on here before the folks who were at the game added their similar thoughts - which Coach Umile echoed in the media immediately afterwards.

I've edited out a few more paragraphs after this, because no one wants to read about competitive theory and psychology on a Monday morning after a bad weekend of on-ice results. I'm sure the players have lots of enthusiasm, and they showed that recently with a 3-1-0 record after TvR went down for what appears to be the rest of the season. I'm also sure they have intensity - ask Notre Dame after the previous weekend. We were all very complimentary of that performance on here, without reservation. But intensity isn't a straight line proposition and constant. Intensity has to be measured in comparison to the intensity of your opponent on any given night, and on Friday UNH came up a distant second in that category. After UVM's fourth goal restored their 2 goal lead in the 3rd period, I turned to my daughter and said "I'm afraid they're going to let down and let in another one quickly". It was barely out of my mouth when Goal #5 hit the twine from a ridiculous angle. Really, I'm not that good - I'm not Kreskin, but we've all seen this movie before. Just as sure as Denver "mailed it in" after the 2nd half kickoff two weekends ago, UNH mailed it in Friday night after Goal #4, and got themselves in that predicament to begin with by failing to match UVM's effort and intensity over the 50-ish minutes that preceded it.

It pains me to say things like this, it really does. I'll be around for the rest of the season, and I'm always going to be hoping to see that magical moment. I've been in the house for all three of UNH's tourney championships (ECAC and HE) over a 35 year period, and saw them in three of their last four Frozen Fours (did not travel to Anaheim) so I'm in this for the duration, I'm afraid. I want the players to succeed on and off the ice, and to use what they've learned on and off the ice at UNH to be successful in their lives after hockey is done for them. I'm hoping Coach Umile gets to ride off into the sunset someday with the ultimate trophy, amd if not, then hopefully at least with another conference tourney trophy. I really, really do.

But the evidence out on the ice in recent seasons tells me the slide away from the pinnacle has sadly not stopped yet, and despite the early promise of last season, I'm afraid that has largely proven to be nothing but a temporary mirage that has been exposed by the last season-and-a-half of unceasing mediocrity. It is going to take an incredibly special effort from a lot of different people, on and off the ice, to turn things around for UNH Hockey - whether it's during the remainder of this season, or in future seasons. JMHO.

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Let me pass along what I sawfrom the games this past weekend. If you go back and watch the video archive from the weekend broadcasts please notice that UNH had a hard time catching passes, winning board battles, winning faceoffs, winning foot races to the puck all weekend. Say what you may about your likes or dislikes about this team, those are not normal characteristics of this bunch. Compare that to the ND weekend when they won a high % of faceoffs and board battles etc. They controlled all of those situations that weekend. This Team physically hit their wall this weekend. Watch the archive. A tired player has problems handling passes, reaction times are slower, don't have the leg strength to win the board battles. I noticed situations when players were falling down just by trying to take hard turns to get back in the play. Tired players are slow to read and react to game situations as well. I thought that they were gased from their first shift Friday night. It happens. Vermont is not a team with abnormal size or exceptional footspeed. They don't really have any players that are likely to be placed on the All Hockey East team etc. Their defense is of average speed and size, and they have as many smallish forwards as UNH does. But they were fresh and rejuvenated. With the injury situations, ( not making excuses just using it as reference) the 3 oldest Def have been skating well in excess of 30 minutes a night for the past 3 weekends. The bottom 3 haven't picked up any additional on their share of reps in that time. Tough to keep up with long term. They key forwards are also getting exorbident time as well. They have had a tough post holiday stretch- Hoilday tournament- 2 against UNO- 2 against Union- 2 against Maine- 2 against ND- 2 against Vermont. Must be easy to play only 2 games a week? They practice hard 4 days a week- with old school coaches- ban the water bottle style- if 5 side boards is good for you then 10 must be better. Happens to every team- check the Bruins schedule out- I am sure they have had some unexplainable games. Vermont was off last weekend- do you think they had to put out as much energy last weekend as UNH did? Doesn't take much effort to pop open a Natty light.
The sky isn't falling down and the end of the world is not this week. Hopefully they can get their legs underneath them and get things going back in the right direction again. It is unfortunate, but the empty weekend they have coming up is in 2 weeks, and they face Merrimack and the playoffs after that. Hindsight says it would have been great to have had that last week or the week before. Don't question their intensity or enthusiasm. They care more than you do about results. There is not a person there that doesn't care.

I think it is easy to fall victim to the negativity that seems to prevail around here all too often. Especially this time of year when Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) more commonly known as "cabin fever" sets in around these parts. The pervasiveness of the negativity grows and spreads like a cancer until, before you know it, it becomes the rule rather than the exception. "Glass half full" becomes "glass half empty" quickly around here. The negativity expressed here is more a function of our own misgivings rather than anything the team does on the ice. For me as a fan to circle the UVM games every year and then see my team get spanked by UVM with the resultant disappointment in the aftermath of the losses is on me. I can choose to turn the page or not. Having said all that, I think in retrospect that you are right. The team may have hit the wall. Not because they don't care. Lord knows they do. We have to recognize that they are still just kids playing hockey in a very competitive league while working hard to get a quality education at the same time. Like you said, even the pros fall victim to let downs during the course of a long season. Throw in on top of that witnessing a teammate or two go down to injury must take a toll as well. In the heat of the moment we all say and do things we might not normally do or think. Let's all just step back, take a breath and enjoy the ride. The season may not go according to OUR plan, but hey that's life. Deal with it!

[thegeese]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

I applaud your thoughts e.cat. We can't paint everything with such a broad brush. We must not confuse the frustrations with the past and future direction of the program with the effort and results of the current players. The are not interchanceable. It is macro vs. micro. I assure you that the current group would never "quit" during a game. What you see may not be pretty at times, but I guarantee from my knowledge of many of these players than quit is not an option. They are a committed group.
As to the suggestion that UVM was behind the 8 ball because they were the visiting team this past weekend. Time to rest and prepare provide an obvious opportuntiy when competing against a team of similar strengths. I will suggest reviewing the record of football Coach Andy Reid when he was with the Eagles. He had an amazing winning record in games played following a bye week. Don't hold me to the exact numbers, but I believe it was something like 13-1 when he had a chance to rest and prepare his team with a bye. That covers both home and away games. I am not suggesting that Kevin Sneddon coaches to the standards of Jerry York or something, but UNH hasn't changed their style in 24 years or so, and it would be easy to scheme and practice against them if you had additional time. Just saying..

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

I agree and if UNH is getting at least one 'top player' from Mass each year I can live with that. Hopefully Kelleher develops into a real good player here. Eiserman seems like a good recruit and if all goes well Nazarian would be a nice fit too. That is definitely good news for the future and hopefully a step in the right direction since I took a look at the 2003 team....

Because on the 2003 team there were 8 players from Mass. All were pretty decent too. I know two are goalies but still & they were good too:
Saviano, Collins, Prudden, Foley, Truelson, Yandle, Pietrasiak, Ayers

All but one(Pietrasiak, Shrewsbury) were from inside the 495 boundary (The last UNH skater from inside 495 was Butler in '09-10. May not have been a highly touted recruit but certainly worked out well. So '02-03 had 7 players from Eastern Ma. and there has only been one(Wyer) the last 4 seasons.). I'm not trying to discredit you or disrespect you. You do great work for this team and I appreciate it, and I completely agree with you on recruiting in Ma., trying to recruit inside that boundary of 495 must be hell. Trying to convince a kid from Ma. to come up and play puck in 'cow-hampshire' could take some work. And I would assume it has only gotten harder with the success of BC the last decade and BU winning in '09. They obviously have the pick of the litter, nothing real new though. But what else has changed? Because I'm just saying UNH has had 8 Mass players(7 Eastern Ma.) on their team before (A year they went to NC) so maybe they could do it again...? That's the only year I looked at b/c I just wanted to take a successful year(Last time UNH went to the FF) and see how many players were on that team from Mass. That's certainly not the one and only reason why they went to the NC that year. Obviously. That's not the one factor that will result in success, I get that. They could certainly do it with zero players from Mass. or have a bad year with every player being from Mass. But interesting none the less. Hopefully recruits from Mass. will keep coming though because they usually work out pretty well (Sounds like 2, both from inside 495, will be on the way in the next 2-3 years. Sign of good things to come? Who knows. Ha.). I'm sure you'll let us know C-H-C.

I like your idea of comparing the 2002-03 and 2013-14 rosters in terms of the players' hometown.
Here's a look at the number of players hailing from Massachusetts for the Hockey East schools plus Harvard. The first number is for the school's 2002-03 season, the second number shows the total for 2013-14, and the third number shows the overall gain or loss:

BU: 7-12. Overall +5
BC: 7-9. Overall +2
PC: 5-6. Overall +1
Harvard: 7-8. Overall +1
UMass: 18-8. Overall -10
UNH: 10-2. Overall -8
Merrimack: 12-5. Overall -7
Northeastern: 11-4. Overall -7
Lowell: 7-4. Overall -3
Maine: 3-2. Overall -1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Net Loss = 27

It would appear that part of the answer to the question - "Why doesn't UNH recruit more top players from Massachusetts?" - is that nowadays, there are not as many NCAA Division 1 caliber players coming out of Massachusetts as there were 11 years ago.

[The Zlax45]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

I like your idea of comparing the 2002-03 and 2013-14 rosters in terms of the players' hometown.
Here's a look at the number of players hailing from Massachusetts for the Hockey East schools plus Harvard. The first number is for the school's 2002-03 season, the second number shows the total for 2013-14, and the third number shows the overall gain or loss:

BU: 7-12. Overall +5
BC: 7-9. Overall +2
PC: 5-6. Overall +1
Harvard: 7-8. Overall +1
UMass: 18-8. Overall -10
UNH: 10-2. Overall -8
Merrimack: 12-5. Overall -7
Northeastern: 11-4. Overall -7
Lowell: 7-4. Overall -3
Maine: 3-2. Overall -1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Net Loss = 27

It would appear that part of the answer to the question - "Why doesn't UNH recruit more top players from Massachusetts?" - is that nowadays, there are not as many NCAA Division 1 caliber players coming out of Massachusetts as there were 11 years ago.

I think PC has become a very heavy Canadian roster as many of those kids from mass don't play.

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Just can't buy the excuses. Sorry. Their performance this weekend was abysmal. They are not good enough to overlook any opponent. They need to play the best game they can every weekend if they are going to succeed. Going into this past weekend they had all the advantages in the world. Playing at home for the second straight weekend after sweeping a ranked team the week before. Playing against a team that historically they have dominated. And knowing if they continue to play well against teams below them in the standings that they could finish 2nd or 3rd in HE, get a bye in the one game elimination weekend and perhaps get home ice in the quarterfinals. If I know this, the coaches know it, and the players know it too. For them, the approach should have been "we're in the playoffs now, we have to play with playoff intensity in every game." Since they did play with playoff intensity the weekend before, I foolishly expected that they recognized the position they were in and would at least try to repeat their performance. Bottom line is they didn't.

I get tired of the line that they are "just kids." They are scholarship athletes and have been put under a microscope by coaches, college scouts and pro scouts for years. Most of them, if not all, desire and expect to play professionally and should understand the consequences of not being focused at all times. And I will remind one and all that their opponents are "just kids" as well. Somehow they overcame the distractions, the length of the season, and all the other rationales that excuse indifferent perfromance.

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Given that UNH had 10 players from Massachusetts on the 2002-03 roster and only 2 in 2013-14, what has changed in UNH's pattern of recruiting?

Part of the answer is that UNH recruits more players from the New York City/New Jersey/Philadelphia area (i.e., the cities/towns with fans who root for the Rangers, Islanders, Devils, and/or Flyers).

This table shows the number of players on the 2002-03 (1st number) and 2013-14 (2nd number) rosters who grew up in the NYC/NJ/Philly area:

UNH: 2-9. Overall +7
BU: 5-1. Overall -4
BC: 7-5. Overall -2
Harvard: 3-4. Overall +1

Some of the UNH players from the NYC/NJ/Philly area have turned out to be top players on their squads (e.g., the van Riemsdyk brothers, Brett Pesce, Kevin Goumas, Eric Knodel, Matt Willows, Josh Ciocco, etc.).

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

I get tired of the line that they are "just kids." They are scholarship athletes and have been put under a microscope by coaches, college scouts and pro scouts for years. Most of them, if not all, desire and expect to play professionally and should understand the consequences of not being focused at all times. And I will remind one and all that their opponents are "just kids" as well. Somehow they overcame the distractions, the length of the season, and all the other rationales that excuse indifferent perfromance.

Greg, you're a freakin clown.

That's all.

[Ryan422]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Given that UNH had 10 players from Massachusetts on the 2002-03 roster and only 2 in 2013-14, what has changed in UNH's pattern of recruiting?

Part of the answer is that UNH recruits more players from the New York City/New Jersey/Philadelphia area (i.e., the cities/towns with fans who root for the Rangers, Islanders, Devils, and/or Flyers).

This table shows the number of players on the 2002-03 (1st number) and 2013-14 (2nd number) rosters who grew up in the NYC/NJ/Philly area:

UNH: 2-9. Overall +7
BU: 5-1. Overall -4
BC: 7-5. Overall -2
Harvard: 3-4. Overall +1

Some of the UNH players from the NYC/NJ/Philly area have turned out to be top players on their squads (e.g., the van Riemsdyk brothers, Brett Pesce, Kevin Goumas, Eric Knodel, Matt Willows, Josh Ciocco, etc.).

Point taken. Good research and yeah obviously there has been a change in where the players UNH (& other teams in general I guess) are recruiting. It is kind of interesting though that the two teams you listed (UNH & Harvard) who have increased their number of players from NYC/NJ/Philly haven't seen much success in recent years (Looks like UNH will be missing the tournament for the 2nd time in 3 years). Certainly not because of those players, as you said, the kids coming out of that region have become really good players for UNH. But someone brought up the question the other day, where would Willows fit in on teams of years past? Good question. And I'm not saying they should stop recruiting there, it's more of just a coincidence than anything I would say. Also, I would say with UConn coming to HE and Penn St. having a team now it will become much more of a battleground there recruiting for top players.


But definitely something is going on with recruiting... As you showed NU is a net -7 players from Mass compared to '02-'03 and they finished the regular season of HE in last place that year and are currently in third place and having a great year. UNH is a net -8 players compared to '02-'03 and are having a .500 season and likely they will finish in 7th maybe 6th, I think is the consensus, compared to 1st place back then. So you did kind of minimize the theory of Mass players providing success(But I did say in my previous post that it's not the one factor that will lead to success), but what theory I was trying to make in general is the type of players UNH is getting today compared to years past. Go where the talent is and I haven't really seen that lately...

And I think it was NCAA Watcher who said UNH has not had a player on their team in at least the last couple seasons who has been anywhere near the top of the USHL scoring. Obviously scorers can come out of the BCHL and other quality leagues but typically USHL is the premier talent producer(and I don't know about stats for UNHers who have played in the BCHL & where they ranked in league scoring. Maybe you do?) And I also had a fairly long rant about the fact that UNH does not have a drafted forward on their roster for the first time in over 30 years by my research. Just all of it kind of ties in with the talent level of recruits they have been able to get in recent years and the success they have see on the ice. I don't care where the players come from. They don't need to come from Massachusetts. Back then there was a ton of talent coming from Mass and UNH got some real good players from there and now it seems there aren't a lot a top players coming from Mass compared to a decade ago. So now those great players are coming from somewhere else, where ever that is, and UNH isn't really getting those 'top guys' anymore like they used to. Borek could go out and recruit in Guam for all I care. As long as he brings in some quality players who can put the puck in the back of the net. I know UNH is excited about recruits coming in (Looks like 2 NHL drafted forwards and another one who is in the top 10 or so in USHL scoring) and hopefully they develop to be quality D1 players like they're touted to be and get UNH back to being dominant again.

[Goldie]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

How many top goalies did UNH have back in the day? UML , PC, NU, BC. This year their goalies are playing pretty strong. Ss did some of those teams last year. Doug Carr made a big difference when he showed up at UML, but when Hellebuvk showed up and got his shot it was a whole new level. When Merrimack had their recent success- pretty strong goalie. In no way knocking UNH goaltending. Often Goaltending can become the difference.

[sonar]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Union and Quinnipiac have a total of FIVE players from Massachusetts and they seem to be on the rise. All this analysis about where players are from, players quitting, bridge traffic causing travel difficulties, etc. is all smoke. The fault dear Brutus lies not in xxxxxx ..... but perhaps the responsibility lies with ..... ah to hell with it .... who cares anymore.

[unh1982]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Right thought, wrong thread. The "Fire Dick Umile" thread doesn't get bumped until mid-February.

I suggest we start the thread Today , why wait . Perhaps its not the players , the country they live in , state , city, street , their motivation level , compete level etc etc etc. Perhaps the coach deserves the blame . look what PC has done with a new coach , Just sayin. %hit can Umile .

[Ryan422]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Union and Quinnipiac have a total of FIVE players from Massachusetts and they seem to be on the rise. All this analysis about where players are from, players quitting, bridge traffic causing travel difficulties, etc. is all smoke. The fault dear Brutus lies not in xxxxxx ..... but perhaps the responsibility lies with ..... ah to hell with it .... who cares anymore.

Well I don't think Union and Quinnipiac were ever really in the hunt for the top Massachusetts players ten years ago or today. Certainly they can go out and get great players from elsewhere but historically Mass. has produced a lot of top players and HE teams have battled for them and back then UNH got some good ones. But as CHC proved maybe those number are starting to dwindle of recent years. So the talent lies elsewhere in the country. And UNH hasn't quite found yet in recent years like the talent from 10-11 years ago they were getting....

How many top goalies did UNH have back in the day? UML , PC, NU, BC. This year their goalies are playing pretty strong. Ss did some of those teams last year. Doug Carr made a big difference when he showed up at UML, but when Hellebuvk showed up and got his shot it was a whole new level. When Merrimack had their recent success- pretty strong goalie. In no way knocking UNH goaltending. Often Goaltending can become the difference.

Good point. I think we almost got spoiled with all the great goalie we had during that time. But you're right a good team starts with a quality goalie. Nothing against DeSmith. He's pretty solid but can be hot or cold.

[Ryan422]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

I suggest we start the thread Today , why wait . Perhaps its not the players , the country they live in , state , city, street , their motivation level , compete level etc etc etc. Perhaps the coach deserves the blame . look what PC has done with a new coach , Just sayin. %hit can Umile .

And that's a point I was trying to make. I don't care where the players come from or where the talent lies but recent seasons are indicative of what types of players the coaches are able recruit today vs. the past and what the coaches do to develop the players while at UNH. I think it's on Umile and/or assistants.

[wildcatdc]

Let me pass along what I sawfrom the games this past weekend. If you go back and watch the video archive from the weekend broadcasts please notice that UNH had a hard time catching passes, winning board battles, winning faceoffs, winning foot races to the puck all weekend. Say what you may about your likes or dislikes about this team, those are not normal characteristics of this bunch. Compare that to the ND weekend when they won a high % of faceoffs and board battles etc. They controlled all of those situations that weekend. This Team physically hit their wall this weekend. Watch the archive. A tired player has problems handling passes, reaction times are slower, don't have the leg strength to win the board battles. I noticed situations when players were falling down just by trying to take hard turns to get back in the play. Tired players are slow to read and react to game situations as well. I thought that they were gased from their first shift Friday night. It happens. Vermont is not a team with abnormal size or exceptional footspeed. They don't really have any players that are likely to be placed on the All Hockey East team etc. Their defense is of average speed and size, and they have as many smallish forwards as UNH does. But they were fresh and rejuvenated. With the injury situations, ( not making excuses just using it as reference) the 3 oldest Def have been skating well in excess of 30 minutes a night for the past 3 weekends. The bottom 3 haven't picked up any additional on their share of reps in that time. Tough to keep up with long term. They key forwards are also getting exorbident time as well. They have had a tough post holiday stretch- Hoilday tournament- 2 against UNO- 2 against Union- 2 against Maine- 2 against ND- 2 against Vermont. Must be easy to play only 2 games a week? They practice hard 4 days a week- with old school coaches- ban the water bottle style- if 5 side boards is good for you then 10 must be better. Happens to every team- check the Bruins schedule out- I am sure they have had some unexplainable games. Vermont was off last weekend- do you think they had to put out as much energy last weekend as UNH did? Doesn't take much effort to pop open a Natty light.
The sky isn't falling down and the end of the world is not this week. Hopefully they can get their legs underneath them and get things going back in the right direction again. It is unfortunate, but the empty weekend they have coming up is in 2 weeks, and they face Merrimack and the playoffs after that. Hindsight says it would have been great to have had that last week or the week before. Don't question their intensity or enthusiasm. They care more than you do about results. There is not a person there that doesn't care.

You know, it's a valid concern. The team has played 32 games already, several more than most HEA clubs, and probably nearly the most in the nation.

Clearly, the sport does not lack in its aerobic requirements. I don't want to go too far afield, but is there a chance that from a fitness level, they have gone stale? Having competed in a couple of different endurance sports for the better part of 26 years now (Tour de Lowell bike race bring the first, for those of you who remember that race), I think most endurance coaches will tell you that you simply can't hold a peak for a season. That's why ample rest is so critical in those sports.

In the games I was lucky enough to be home to see live (clarkson, minn, mich 2x), we were flying. My Michigan buddy, whom I dragged to the Whitt, commented on just how fit our team looked; the teams simply looked to be operating at two different speeds by late in the 2nd and through the 3rd. Set aside the results, BTW... No amount of fitness can make up for an Inability to finish.

So, to geese's point, (and ONLY as a contributing factor, since we know that there are myriad issues right now), I wonder how the staff monitors the fatigue factor. Greg, you may have some insights here....

For those who might argue that ND was just one week ago.... Fair, but I am more likely to buy geese's fatigue point than the "they just didn't want it bad enough" point.

So, my conclusion?? I think a regimen of HGH, corticosteroids and EPO should be high on the list of priorities!!! ;-)