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Blackbeard
01-08-2014, 01:41 AM
So, anyone have any idea why the "How To Get Noticed, Get Recruited & Play Hockey At The School of Your Dreams" thread was deleted?

Don't know how many people got to read it but a quick explanation is that after I posted a link late one evening to a great resource for aspiring female hockey players and their parents that I stumbled across on the internet the author, who is also a coach, posted a polite request the next morning for me to delete the link citing copyright to it. I had made the assumption that she had made it available on the internet but that was apparently not so.

By the time that I got back on this forum and saw her request, someone ("board administrator") had repointed the link to her website which is also a valuable tool for players and parents. I took that to mean that the unintended transgression was now corrected to this forum administrator's satisfaction thereby defusing any potential legal problems. (It was certainly amazing how quickly the administrator was on this...two or three scant hours...hmmm.) I posted a short explanation to the coach of how I had come across her info so that she would be put on notice so she could check it out if she wished in an attempt to protect and or enforce her copyright and I also made a complimentary comment indicating that I was glad she got some free and well deserved PR from it and now from the link to her website.

To my surprise, when I returned to the forum a few hours later the thread had disappeared!

So, I guess the question is what or who had been violated by my posting an extremely valuable resource (which was subsequently repointed by a forum administrator to a valuable website) for female hockey players and their parents on a women's hockey forum that is suppose to be about the discussion of, and, I would certainly think, the promotion of said sport?

OnMAA
01-08-2014, 10:08 AM
So, anyone have any idea why the "How To Get Noticed, Get Recruited & Play Hockey At The School of Your Dreams" thread was deleted?

Don't know how many people got to read it but a quick explanation is that after I posted a link late one evening to a great resource for aspiring female hockey players and their parents that I stumbled across on the internet the author, who is also a coach, posted a polite request the next morning for me to delete the link citing copyright to it. I had made the assumption that she had made it available on the internet but that was apparently not so.

By the time that I got back on this forum and saw her request, someone ("board administrator") had repointed the link to her website which is also a valuable tool for players and parents. I took that to mean that the unintended transgression was now corrected to this forum administrator's satisfaction thereby defusing any potential legal problems. (It was certainly amazing how quickly the administrator was on this...two or three scant hours...hmmm.) I posted a short explanation to the coach of how I had come across her info so that she would be put on notice so she could check it out if she wished in an attempt to protect and or enforce her copyright and I also made a complimentary comment indicating that I was glad she got some free and well deserved PR from it and now from the link to her website.

To my surprise, when I returned to the forum a few hours later the thread had disappeared!

So, I guess the question is what or who had been violated by my posting an extremely valuable resource (which was subsequently repointed by a forum administrator to a valuable website) for female hockey players and their parents on a women's hockey forum that is suppose to be about the discussion of, and, I would certainly think, the promotion of said sport?

Not sure, but too bad that it got deleted. In most cases Threads disappear, cause the Thread Author (original poster starting thread) decided to delete it, in most case without warning. This has happened to a few threads in the past that got a bit to contentious or to too close and personal for the original poster. In most cases it is a thread about a team that spirals onto innuendo and name calling when the going get's tough.

This thread clearly DID NOT fit that bill, so like you, puzzled as to who or why it got deleted. Certainly don't agree with it. If there was a violation of copyright, then all you had to do was to delete the link or copyright violation part, not the whole thread. JMO.

TonyTheTiger20
01-08-2014, 10:14 AM
I didn't see the posts after the original link was re-pointed to the Coach's website ... but if I had to take a wild stab, I'm guessing if you posted how you found the original free link to the website (however well-intentioned) the Coach may have contacted board admin to have the thread deleted since it was showing how to find the material for free... In which case their hands would have been tied.

I don't think it was anything personal against you from the board admins. Just doing what they have to do if someone complains about copyrighted material (particularly their own).

I don't know for sure whether or not that's what happened but that's my guess.

Blackbeard
01-08-2014, 11:28 AM
If there was a violation fo copyright, then all you had to do was to delete the link or copyright violation part, not the whole thread. JMO.

Exactly.

However, as I mentioned, by the time I returned to the forum and the thread and saw her request for me to delete the link, the "board administrator" had repointed the link that I had provided to the info that had (unbeknownst to me) been made available on the internet without the coach's permission. The administrator's doing so solved any unintended violation of her copyright.

So why delete the thread after the simple and swift corrective action was taken?

The repointing to her website, by the administrator, of the link that I had originally provided to the information that apparently shouldn't have been publicly available on the internet in the first place should have thrilled the author/coach/copyright holder!!!

It was free PR for her to a captive and targeted audience...which was my point to her with respect to the free PR. It doesn't get any better than that for someone in business...which she obviously is since she was offering some services for a price on her website as well as other information, assistance, tips etc., which was provided for free.

Hux
01-08-2014, 11:39 AM
Exactly.

It was free PR for her to a captive and targeted audience...which was my point to her with respect to the free PR. It doesn't get any better than that for someone in business...which she obviously is since she was offering some services for a price on her website as well as other information, assistance, tips etc., which was provided for free.

It may well have been a move by Admin because it pointed to a web site that, however well intentioned, is retail.

Blackbeard
01-08-2014, 12:16 PM
I didn't see the posts after the original link was re-pointed to the Coach's website ... but if I had to take a wild stab, I'm guessing if you posted how you found the original free link to the website (however well-intentioned) the Coach may have contacted board admin to have the thread deleted since it was showing how to find the material for free... In which case their hands would have been tied.

I don't think it was anything personal against you from the board admins. Just doing what they have to do if someone complains about copyrighted material (particularly their own).

I don't know for sure whether or not that's what happened but that's my guess.


All I said in response to her was that I had "stumbled upon it" on the internet and that it was certainly not my intention to violate anyone's copyright. I had actually "googled" a hockey related topic and in the list of results I got was a link to her copyrighted material. It made no sense to me why the link to her material showed up in my search results but the title got my attention so I opened it, was very impressed with it and created the thread on this forum and posted it with my enthusiastic compliments to her. So, at no time did I ever mention exactly what I had "googled" that resulted in my seeing the link to her copyrighted material.

The original free link to the copyrighted material was just to the copyrighted material/article...it was not a link to her website and there was no way to get from the copyrighted material to her website. Upon checking her website afterwards I found that there was no mention of the copyrighted material/article...in other words there was no way to get from her website to the copyrighted material...which makes sense because if there was, why would she have taken exception to my posting the link to the copyrighted material in the first place?

And I did not take the deletion of the thread personally although I guess it's possible that some do gooder after seeing the coach's request for me to delete the link to her copyrighted material, (but before I had returned to see that request and before I responded to her), had reported it to the "board administrator" thinking that I was knowingly violating someone's copyright. Even though that is possible it wouldn't explain why the thread was deleted after the "board administrator" took the corrective action of repointing the original link which I had provided. And as I explained above to OnMAA, once the corrective action had been taken the coach should no longer have had any objection...as a matter of fact just the opposite...she should have been thrilled.

So, the original question remains. Why was the thread deleted?

And the forum administrator(s) haven't responded to my request for an explanation. What a surprise! I'm shocked, shocked!

Blackbeard
01-08-2014, 12:31 PM
It may well have been a move by Admin because it pointed to web site that, however well intentioned, is retail.

That occurred to me but, and I may be wrong about this, I seem to remember links in various threads over the years to sites that were selling something and those threads weren't deleted. As I mentioned her site also offered free advice, info, tips, videos, etc. and in my opinion the for fee stuff was not in your face stuff...it struck me as almost being an afterthought...or it could have been something akin to subliminal selling. Either way her website was a resource for female players and their parents to several free benefits with the subdued option to purchase some others.

Is there a written policy that USCHO forbids any info to be posted that may result in someone making a financial profit even if it's not the one who posted it ?

OnMAA
01-08-2014, 12:59 PM
That occurred to me but, and I may be wrong about this, I seem to remember links in various threads over the years to sites that were selling something and those threads weren't deleted. As I mentioned her site also offered free advice, info, tips, videos, etc. and in my opinion the for fee stuff was not in your face stuff...it struck me as almost being an afterthought...or it could have been something akin to subliminal selling. Either way her website was a resource for female players and their parents to several free benefits with the subdued option to purchase some others.

Is there a written policy that USCHO forbids any info to be posted that may result in someone making a financial profit even if it's not the one who posted it ?

Suspect that the monitors act on complaints only. Most copyright violations on here are probably not noticed, or not being reported.

brookyone
01-08-2014, 01:01 PM
That occurred to me but, and I may be wrong about this, I seem to remember links in various threads over the years to sites that were selling something and those threads weren't deleted. As I mentioned her site also offered free advice, info, tips, videos, etc. and in my opinion the for fee stuff was not in your face stuff...it struck me as almost being an afterthought...or it could have been something akin to subliminal selling. Either way her website was a resource for female players and their parents to several free benefits with the subdued option to purchase some others.

Is there a written policy that USCHO forbids any info to be posted that may result in someone making a financial profit even if it's not the one who posted it ?
http://www.uscho.com/faq/uscho-fan-forum/

You've read these right? See #7. I believe some violations of posting guidelines slip by the administration at times. I don't believe they can monitor each post for adherence to posting guidelines.

For example, this I've actually seen tolerated with generous, uh...tolerance a number of times in the past:


Personal attacks, defamation, libel or flaming will not be tolerated.

Blackbeard
01-08-2014, 02:08 PM
http://www.uscho.com/faq/uscho-fan-forum/

You've read these right? See #7. I believe some violations of posting guidelines slip by the administration at times. I don't believe they can monitor each post for adherence to posting guidelines.

For example, this I've actually seen tolerated with generous, uh...tolerance a number of times in the past:


Well, #7 makes sense. And this would seem to answer the question of why the thread was deleted...or at least one reason for it. But, if so, then I have to wonder why it was deleted after the administration's corrective action was taken? In other words, if I had not responded to the coach would the corrective action have been enough to have allowed the thread to still be here?...meaning, if the administrator didn't check out the coach's website well enough before repointing the link to it, maybe my response to the coach in which I mentioned free PR for her website as a result of the corrective action caused the administrator to check out the coach's website more thoroughly and upon seeing the retail services that were offered the original corrective action was rethought and the decision was made to delete the thread.

Although I understand #7, I also think that it's a shame that many who might benefit from the info on the coach's website as well as from the information that I had originally posted, (if that could be had from the coach for a fee), may never become aware of it. Certainly, being aware of/having access to the material that I had originally posted would make countless lives so much easier and may even allow fans to eventually see some players that they otherwise wouldn't.

As for your last comment I think you are being way too diplomatic. Their ignoring or not noticing the infamous Brown thread with its egregious violations of #1, (the definition of which you've highlighted), is like being tied to railway tracks and not noticing when a train is barrelling down the track toward you...insults and name calling galore!...endlessly.

OnMAA
01-08-2014, 02:54 PM
http://www.uscho.com/faq/uscho-fan-forum/

You've read these right? See #7. I believe some violations of posting guidelines slip by the administration at times. I don't believe they can monitor each post for adherence to posting guidelines.

For example, this I've actually seen tolerated with generous, uh...tolerance a number of times in the past:

If you read all the rules to the letter of the law, there are a lot of violations by many posters on here, including you Brooky. For example posting of links to pictures. I think many of us, yours truly included, have been guilty of that violation. However rules to not specify that videos are off limits, even though that is more of a bandwidth issue then posting links to pictures, so me thinks some of these rules are a bit dated.

brookyone
01-08-2014, 08:14 PM
If you read all the rules to the letter of the law, there are a lot of violations by many posters on here, including you Brooky. For example posting of links to pictures.
Does this mean I shouldn't have furnished the link to guidelines for informational purposes? Was that just another of my too numerous to count posting guideline violations?

Images were embedded, not linked. Copyrighted material...fair use...balancing test, all that. Luckily the copyrighted images owner(s) didn't specifically and formally request removal...that I'm aware of.

brookyone
01-08-2014, 08:29 PM
Well, #7 makes sense. And this would seem to answer the question of why the thread was deleted...or at least one reason for it. But, if so, then I have to wonder why it was deleted after the administration's corrective action was taken? In other words, if I had not responded to the coach would the corrective action have been enough to have allowed the thread to still be here?...meaning, if the administrator didn't check out the coach's website well enough before repointing the link to it, maybe my response to the coach in which I mentioned free PR for her website as a result of the corrective action caused the administrator to check out the coach's website more thoroughly and upon seeing the retail services that were offered the original corrective action was rethought and the decision was made to delete the thread.

Although I understand #7, I also think that it's a shame that many who might benefit from the info on the coach's website as well as from the information that I had originally posted, (if that could be had from the coach for a fee), may never become aware of it. Certainly, being aware of/having access to the material that I had originally posted would make countless lives so much easier and may even allow fans to eventually see some players that they otherwise wouldn't.

As for your last comment I think you are being way too diplomatic. Their ignoring or not noticing the infamous Brown thread with its egregious violations of #1, (the definition of which you've highlighted), is like being tied to railway tracks and not noticing when a train is barrelling down the track toward you...insults and name calling galore!...endlessly.
There have been some postings of blatant spam...sales / promotional pitches for products from time to time and I for one am glad they disappear fairly quickly. I don't know...maybe it's an effort by the administration to be even handed regardless of what's being promoted. If they delete the posts by some clown promoting clothing it's probably not correct to allow posts promoting any goods or services. I would have to agree with that policy. Not the proper venue for it. Especially for a site with paid advertisers. I don't use an ad blocker myself.

The other guideline I highlighted which you address. In my opinion, there have been far more egregious violations of that outside the infamous Brown thread. Also in my opinion, criticisms of coaches that are opinions of posters do not necessarily qualify as violations of guidelines. Seems to be a posse around here that objects to any opinions that don't paint the rosy picture they want to see and like to pass judgement on the appropriateness of opinions that don't adhere to their rosy picture guidelines. All is not rosy in the real world...including college athletics...and probably including an occasional coach here and there. It's heavy handed censorship disguised as enforcement of proper forum decorum by some who presume to know what's best...better than other forum members and who grant themselves some faux authority to dictate forum etiquette. I've also noticed they tend to be quite selective with their indignation towards the "objectionable" posts of others. If those faux authoritarians count you among their personal forum posse you are afforded far greater freedom of expression within the forum. Including negative, disparaging and defamatory expression.

Blackbeard
01-09-2014, 11:37 PM
There have been some postings of blatant spam...sales / promotional pitches for products from time to time and I for one am glad they disappear fairly quickly. I don't know...maybe it's an effort by the administration to be even handed regardless of what's being promoted. If they delete the posts by some clown promoting clothing it's probably not correct to allow posts promoting any goods or services. I would have to agree with that policy. Not the proper venue for it. Especially for a site with paid advertisers. I don't use an ad blocker myself.

If those in charge of the forum had any business sense they would use this opportunity that has fallen into their lap and approach the coach with a pitch to advertise on this site as opposed to just deleting the thread and walking away. If I were the coach I would certainly look into it...she would pretty much have a captive target audience...I'm somewhat surprised with her being aware of this forum/site that she doesn't already advertise here. I guess, as with advertising for any venture, the issue is whether she thought she could make the cost of the advertising pay.

I would certainly rather see someone like her advertising her services here than some of the crap that I see constantly advertised here that is close to insulting and certainly intellectually disingenuous.

brookyone
01-09-2014, 11:46 PM
If those in charge of the forum had any business sense they would use this opportunity that has fallen into their lap and approach the coach with a pitch to advertise on this site as opposed to just deleting the thread and walking away. If I were the coach I would certainly look into it...she would pretty much have a captive target audience...I'm somewhat surprised with her being aware of this forum/site that she doesn't already advertise here. I guess, as with advertising for any venture, the issue is whether she thought she could make the cost of the advertising pay.

I would certainly rather see someone like her advertising her services here than some of the crap that I see constantly advertised here that is close to insulting and certainly intellectually disingenuous.
I guess it's her choice where to spend any advertising dollars she decides to spend. I'm not sure if those charged with monitoring for spam and unpaid advertisement are also tasked with marketing the site to potential advertisers.

Maybe you should look into an ad blocker.

TonyTheTiger20
01-10-2014, 09:25 AM
Posters who use message board moderation as a soapbox for complaining about censorship are the best kinds of posters.

mnpokecheck
01-10-2014, 11:15 AM
If those in charge of the forum had any business sense they would use this opportunity .....

Since you seem to have it figured out, start your own forum.....

brookyone
01-10-2014, 12:04 PM
Posters who use message board moderation as a soapbox for complaining about censorship are the best kinds of posters.
:)

Should this be red text?

Blackbeard
01-11-2014, 10:19 PM
Since you seem to have it figured out, start your own forum.....

Sounds like you figure what I was suggesting was a complicated concept.