Prep School Question

[Rightnut]

I see and hear a lot of parents of girl (and boy) players sending or allowing their kids to go off to Prep Schools - ostensibly to play hockey and get a good education on top of that- but largely motivated by hockey. From what I am told, these schools cost roughly equivalent to a private college. The question I have is whether these people are really paying the $30-$50k for tuition or do prep school athletes get scholarships/deals whatever? My assumption is that it runs the gamut of some paying full fare and some getting deals but if anyone has more relevant information I'd be interested to hear it. I apologize that this is probably not technically a women's college hockey topic but I figure many go that route so this forum probably has a lot of experience.

[Hux]

Re: Prep School Question

You have summed it up pretty well. It all depends on the school, and to some extent your personal wealth, or "lack" thereof.

[EastCoastBias]

Re: Prep School Question

Private schools can do whatever they want whenever they want. If they want a prize recruit, they will make it happen and money may or may not be part of the equation.

[96IllinoisDad]

Re: Prep School Question

I know very good hockey players (girls) who paid nothing and some who were full pay. I'm sure there are kids in between. I think financial resources plays big part.

[CrossCheck]

Re: Prep School Question

I know very good hockey players (girls) who paid nothing and some who were full pay. I'm sure there are kids in between. I think financial resources plays big part.

it depends......if you have a lot of talent...then the $$ is available regardless of your income....if you have some talent and no $$, then there is likely some $. if you have no talent and no $..good luck.

[ONR]

Re: Prep School Question

Private schools can do whatever they want whenever they want. If they want a prize recruit, they will make it happen and money may or may not be part of the equation.

From our experience this is spot on. After our D's first year where she did well in the classroom and on the ice we asked for more aid and received a substantial increase. This was with no change in income.

[CLS]

Re: Prep School Question

Preps schools are like colleges, only more so. By that I mean you should not focus on the published tuition, but rather (assuming you’re asking the question with your daughter in mind, and it’s not just an academic question) on the actual cost of attendance. For example, at many private schools the only people who pay the published tuition (and actually more, they often contribute a lot) are wealthy, often foreign, families. The schools charge what tuition they can, so that the tuition is actually significantly less for other students. Additionally, many of these schools have bigger endowments, on a per student basis, than many colleges.

Both of my children went to private schools. One was a middle of the road athlete and student, and the other was a good but not great athlete and a good student. In both cases I thought the financial aid they got, relative to the published tuition, was more generous than they got in college. I am a professional, upper middle class, but by no means wealthy. I don’t regret for a minute the expense of the private school education they got, even though neither played sports in college.

I don’t know who’s telling you “what you’ve been told”, but if you’re really serious, and your daughter is interested, you should approach schools directly, and not rely on scuttlebutt and message boards.

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Prep School Question

I can only speak with regard to New England prep schools (not Shattuck, Nichols, etc.). The different prep schools vary dramatically in how they approach this topic, not unlike colleges. Assuming that you have sufficient academics to get in (a basic qualification), my observations across numerous kids are that there are several key factors: school financial aid pool, importance of hockey to school, skill level, income/assets in roughly this order. If a school has a small financial aid pool, it won't provide any significant help to athletes beyond what it provides to the general population because it can't afford to. If it has enough money to provide differential aid to athletes, then hockey importance to the school is next. This determines how the athletics dept prioritizes who they focus on. For example, Phillips Andover has TONS of financial aid but girls hockey is not an important sport to them so they don't direct extra aid there (school choice, not a criticism). If a school has aid and prioritizes hockey, then your skill level is next (in relation to the team and other applicants/recruits). Higher skill kids get more aid than lower skill kids, but this is realtive to the school - at Nobles, to be a higher skill kid means you have to be on a US National team level. A lower skill kid there could easily be the most skilled recruit at a lot of other prep schools - but Nobles won't use aid on that lower skill kid (they also have limited aid). Finally, your income is the final determinant - despite what is occasionally written here, VERY few players whose parents make "average" incomes for the area they live in go for free - it wil lcost you money. And if you are fortunate enough to have $250K+ income, you will almost cetrainly pay all or near all tuition room and board.

As an example, a player a few years ago that I know about was admitted to 6 schools. At Nobles and Andover, she received almost no aid (skill level insufficient at Nobles, aid level insufficient at other school). At a couple of weaker Division 1 schools, she received ~25% aid. At the two Division 2 schools she was admitted to she received over 50% aid and her parents actually negotiated up to ~65% aid by playing them off each other (they were historic rivals in admissions and hockey). She ended up at one of the Div 2 schools and then at a Division 3 NESCAC college - they ended up saving ~$50-100K by going the Div 2 route and she ended up at a very strong academic school. Moral of story - you need to find the right situation for your daughter to maximize your aid if that is a/the primary consideration - requires a LOT of research and coach/admissions dept discussions.

[96IllinoisDad]

Re: Prep School Question

So when you fill out your NCAA Amatuerism Questionnaire, and it asks: Have you received financial assistance based on your athletic skills or participation? Your answer is?

IMO, you had better be able to justify "needing" the money (perhaps a low bar) before accepting it. I think parents should be wary of offers that aren't at least couched on their financial needs.

[ONR]

Re: Prep School Question

So when you fill out your NCAA Amatuerism Questionnaire, and it asks: Have you received financial assistance based on your athletic skills or participation? Your answer is?

IMO, you had better be able to justify "needing" the money (perhaps a low bar) before accepting it. I think parents should be wary of offers that aren't at least couched on their financial needs.

Nothing nefarious going on. The schools can interpret your financial needs the way they want. Also as HockeyEast says, things are negotiable, even within a school.

[96IllinoisDad]

Re: Prep School Question

Nothing nefarious going on. The schools can interpret your financial needs the way they want. Also as HockeyEast says, things are negotiable, even within a school.

...which may be meaningless to how the NCAA interprets it.

I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone has said, especially those that have gone the Prep school route. All I am saying is be careful if you do not have financial need. In addition to families who had true need, we all know kids who have played for free here or there when their parents clearly had zero financial need (usually because they brag about it). You have to be vigilant for your daughter. These teams only care about making their teams better. They don't tell you that it might be an NCAA violation. I never wanted to be in a position where the NCAA told my daughter she was ineligible because she didn't pay hockey fees when I clearly had zero financial need.

This may be much to do about nothing because I have never heard of any female hockey player being declared ineligible from playing DI, but I certainly didn't want my daughter to be the first.

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Prep School Question

...which may be meaningless to how the NCAA interprets it.

I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone has said, especially those that have gone the Prep school route. All I am saying is be careful if you do not have financial need. In addition to families who had true need, we all know kids who have played for free here or there when their parents clearly had zero financial need (usually because they brag about it). You have to be vigilant for your daughter. These teams only care about making their teams better. They don't tell you that it might be an NCAA violation. I never wanted to be in a position where the NCAA told my daughter she was ineligible because she didn't pay hockey fees when I clearly had zero financial need.

This may be much to do about nothing because I have never heard of any female hockey player being declared ineligible from playing DI, but I certainly didn't want my daughter to be the first.

In my experience, the prep schools ALWAYS claim they are meeting demonstrated need by providing financial aid regardless of the actual rationale (extends beyond girls hockey). Never heard of a NCAA eligibility issue related to prep school financial aid in any sport. Keep in mind that the prep school isn't really giving money to a player - they are simply charging them less. Seems like a fine line, but it is meaningful. If an unrelated third party gave a student money to pay for prep school - then you've potentially got a real NCAA issue. That being said, kids that go to NAHA and NSA (and probably other similar programs) are openly coached on how to get contributions from people and businesses to finance their dream (they give little/no/targeted financial aid) - it used to be right on the NAHA website (may still be). I have in the past wondered how they answer the NCAA clearinghouse questions....

[UCONN FAN]

Re: Prep School Question

So when you fill out your NCAA Amatuerism Questionnaire, and it asks: Have you received financial assistance based on your athletic skills or participation? Your answer is?

IMO, you had better be able to justify "needing" the money (perhaps a low bar) before accepting it. I think parents should be wary of offers that aren't at least couched on their financial needs.

LOL define need???? Paying the mortage? Paying the electric bill? Painting the summer home on the lake? The question is easy to answer. The player (who is actually a student) is receiving the money to attend a SCHOOL. Not to play for a team. Legally it satisfies the question.

[ARM]

This may be much to do about nothing because I have never heard of any female hockey player being declared ineligible from playing DI, but I certainly didn't want my daughter to be the first.

Iya Gavrilova at UMD was, but that had to do with playing in a Russian professional league. It gets murkier at a prep school to say whether compensation was based on financial need or academic merit, either of which would likely be fine in the eyes of the NCAA, or based on athletic ability. I imagine that a precedent has been established with highly-sought basketball players over the years.

[backhand sauce]

Re: Prep School Question

hi, just as quick background to the credentials of what I am about to write - I have been off and on reading and contributing to this board for almost 15 years. I have been coaching women's hockey since 1993 at just about every level including both DI and DIII college as well as two different prep schools and the North American Hockey Academy. 6 years ago I hung up my whistle as a means to pay my mortgage and have been a volunteer assistant at a D3 school in VT for the past 6 seasons. My last paying job was the head coach at Taft School in CT and while I was there had the handle on this board of "Taft Hockey" The only time i ever posted anything was to help clear up some confusion. I just read this thread and felt compelled to help Rightnut out in answering their questions as some of the information from responders is not accurate. Having been on both sides of the equation multiple times at all different levels, I hope I can provide the answers that answer your questions.

Firstly, no boarding schools give "merit based financial aid" i.e. scholarships for athletics. This is exactly the same situation as D3 colleges and Ivy League schools who don't offer merit based financial aid (scholarships) What often is viewed from the outside as athletic scholarships in these circumstances is only need based financial aid. This misnomer is so often misunderstood I have hear Ivy league athletes say they are on athletic scholarship not even understanding themselves that it definitely is not a scholarship and is financial aid based on demonstrated need. I know because I used to coach at an Ivy league school. The process at all barding schools in New England (I cant speak for those outside that NEPSAC realm) is to fill out a PFS Parent financial Statement which is processed by a third party and returns a number to the admission/financial aid department of each school as to how much your family can afford to pay for school. Whether you feel the same way about that affordability is up to debate and how the school uses that number is also subject to school interpretation. Some schools align themselves with like minded schools, for instance the Founders League that Taft was part of. Those schools all agree on how they behave in admissions etc... But there is no overarching body like the NCAA watching over the financial aid awards given out by individual schools. Their is peer pressure amongst schools to not "misbehave" by buying kids by upping their financial aid awards, but it does happen. This also happens at the college level as well with the financial aid award at princeton not always being the same as the one from Harvard. Some of that is how the aid departments interpret the PFS results and other variances are caused by constraints on financial aid budget. Schools with smaller budgets might try to get a family to "bite" by offering up 75% of what the PFS says simply because they want to spread their aid around. Other schools have ample budget and meet full need.

Does athletic talent play into admission and aid awards - absolutely. Boarding schools have a finite number of beds and it is the job of the admissions staff to fill those beds with the best candidates to participate in the school and its offerings as well as make sure they have appropriate candidates for their hockey team, soccer team, theater company, orchestra, etc... Just like in college if you have a talent and a hook from the inside that wants that talent, you have an advantage not only getting in, but getting the aid you need. But the idea that their is bargaining and negotiation going on on a major scale and even that a coach might be involved is absolutely not the norm. In the rare circumstance it might happen with some shady situation and shady individulas but that will stick out like a sore thumb if you visit multiple schools. I could go on for hours on the virtues of a prep education and hockey experience but that isn't appropriate here.

As for the ideas on NCAA violations. It is absolutely NOT and NCAA violation to receive need based financial aid from a prep school. That is all it is and it is never a scholarship nor "pay" or funding outside the allowable NCAA guidelines. That is one of the reasons schools don't "pay" for their players. As far as I know there has never been a player ruled ineligible coming out of a prep school because of the financial aid they received.

I'd be happy to answer any other questions if you have them. I hope this helps.