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NCAA watcher
03-27-2014, 02:02 PM
Jeez, do you think just *maybe* they'd want to let the returning players know what the "ultra double secret" plan might be? Or even the "interim co-head coaches" for that matter, as they've been hung out to dry??

Lots of people right now are in a tough spot - whether it's student-athletes, their coaches and beyond - and are basically "collateral damage" to the decisions made after the Ohio State weekend, and the events that have followed.

There was a LOT of lip service coming from BS35 in the aftermath of the decision to fire Coach McCloskey about doing things "in the best interests of the student-athletes". How is he accomplishing this lofty aim now, exactly??? :confused:

Because they're not "student athletes," they are the central "witnesses" to a potential million dollar lawsuit. If I was legal counsel I would want to make sure that my client is not engaging in communications that might be deemed witness tampering.

Darius
03-27-2014, 02:07 PM
zoofer, I agree with you, Chuck and many others. The situation has sucked since it began for the team and everyone associated with it including the larger UNH community. It likely could/should have been handled differently. I say "likely" only because I don't and will never know all the facts. I was just providing an explanation for why the U is quiet on the subject right now. I seriously doubt that senior University officials had a meeting that began with "OK, given the poor situation we are in, what can we do to further screw the Women's hockey program".

Chuck Murray
03-27-2014, 02:36 PM
To Darius and 'Watcher:

I totally understand the potential ramifications UNH faces via civil litigation, I really do. I deal with those realities on a daily basis in my "day job". Lawyers would rather set themselves on fire than allow a client(s) to make public statements that can be used against them in a court of law. But at some point, doesn't an AD have an obligation to run his/her program, and not just fall back on refusing comment because someone in the legal department won't "let" them talk? In short - is the program bigger than a pesky lawsuit??

Isn't BS35 supposedly trying to get a new football stadium built? Does he expect that place to build itself?? Likewise, does he expect Women's Hockey to heal itself from the damage his short-sighted, rash actions to dismiss Coach McCloskey have now led to? Or does he let the stadium (or the team) go down in flames because he's restricted by some self-serving "gag order" that prevents him from talking to the media, or other folks who might dare portray him in an unflattering light?

As far as "insider information" goes ... for better or for worse. we live now in a world where information has never been more accessible. Which probably at best renders about the first 25 years of BS35's vaunted experience somewhat limited, and at worse classifies him as an outdated fossil (and please understand - I probably fit neatly into that category as well). Maybe "way back" when he was just a pup starting out in the AD's office at Happy Valley PA, you could more easily control info going to the outside world. Guess what?? Those days are gone, and probably for good (AND for the best).

I can personally vouch for the fact that much of the information that comes across my laptop arises from some very frustrated people who are MOST frustrated because they feel their voices are not being heard. Their concerns are coming out in the media, regardless of what the AD's office or the Legal Department may be wishing. So the whole concept that information flow can somehow be "controlled" is an increasingly naive one, borne out of a past era.

I always thought AD stood for Athletics Director ... NOT Athletics Delegator. But so long as BS35 delegates his responsibilities to the folks down the hall in the Legal Office, that's what we've got nowadays in Durham. JMHO.

Greg Ambrose
03-27-2014, 02:52 PM
I always thought AD stood for Athletics Director ... NOT Athletics Delegator. But so long as BS35 delegates his responsibilities to the folks down the hall in the Legal Office, that's what we've got nowadays in Durham. JMHO.

Chuck, it is obvious he is no longer in control of the situation. It has been taken to higher level where he has input but not the final say. Until the legal claims are settled, the AD's authority, at least in the women's hockey area if not the entire department, has been diminished or eliminated.

zoofer
03-27-2014, 04:10 PM
Okay Greg lets assume ur right, because I totally agree seeing a new face at the podium at the last embarrassing news conference for UNH Athletics! But then where is the President, or the Trustees? It's there job to protect the University and it image....helluva job so far! The silence from Durham says they don't care about this team, plain and simple...it goes along with their actions when the Admin refused to meet with the players upon their request!! Maybe if the players saw that they could trust someone there they might not look for their release....
Lets go one step further...what if Dick wasn't PC for one moment after 2 decades, would the Durham and UNH be as silent then? Would there be no press putting pressure on the Admin and not taking no comment for their answer?
Anyone who loves UNH should be aghast at what the F is going on....especially hockey enthusiasts!

Greg Ambrose
03-27-2014, 04:28 PM
Okay Greg lets assume ur right, because I totally agree seeing a new face at the podium at the last embarrassing news conference for UNH Athletics! But then where is the President, or the Trustees? It's there job to protect the University and it image....helluva job so far! The silence from Durham says they don't care about this team, plain and simple...it goes along with their actions when the Admin refused to meet with the players upon their request!! Maybe if the players saw that they could trust someone there they might not look for their release....
Lets go one step further...what if Dick wasn't PC for one moment after 2 decades, would the Durham and UNH be as silent then? Would there be no press putting pressure on the Admin and not taking no comment for their answer?
Anyone who loves UNH should be aghast at what the F is going on....especially hockey enthusiasts!

You know as well as I do that the attitude toward hockey has changed over the last couple of years. I don't know what triggered the shift but it has been clear to me for a long time that the UNH athletic department takes the men's hockey team and its loyal supporters for granted. The women's team is collateral damage on this. Football seems to be the flavor of the month these days. I root for them as much as the next alum, but in pure business sense, football is a losing proposition. The hockey team makes a profit, the football doesn't and never will because of too much overhead. But somehow that doesn't matter any more. Those who have put up a stink are gone, one way or the other. I'm not one to wax nostalgic about the good old days but what is going on at UNH would make guys that we both knew roll over in their graves. Sad but true.

zoofer
03-27-2014, 04:46 PM
I agree with all you've said. As some have noted, the decline possibly coincides with Marty's reign...but I and others will not sit by and see the women's team disappear because of inaction by UNH. Time to call in the media and see if UNH likes the spotlight when it's all bad!

Chuck Murray
03-27-2014, 05:23 PM
Time to call in the media and see if UNH likes the spotlight when it's all bad!

I'm struggling really hard at the moment to recall the last time the U was portrayed in a positive media spotlight. :confused:

zoofer
03-27-2014, 05:39 PM
Problem is Chuck that there has been no reporter willing to ask the hard questions and do a piece on the silence! All they do is go to a press conference about the stadium or pool and never engage without letting go! That's gotta change...where's the paparazzi when you need them! How about the Nee Hampshire doing some investigative journalism?

Hux
03-27-2014, 05:49 PM
Problem is Chuck that there has been no reporter willing to ask the hard questions and do a piece on the silence! All they do is go to a press conference about the stadium or pool and never engage without letting go! That's gotta change...where's the paparazzi when you need them! How about the Nee Hampshire doing some investigative journalism?

Push too hard and you get banned from the press box. ;)

goblue
03-27-2014, 05:58 PM
Chuck, you wrote, "With the "interim" tags still attached to their titles, Coaches Wood and Jones face the future (long-term or otherwise) with questions, and precious few answers. There have been no statements of outward or even implied support from Athletic Department leadership (perhaps an oxymoron there?), and so two promising young assistants who encountered a series of obstacles not of their own making, wait without assurances to learn of decisions as to their fates with the UNH program ... figuratively twisting in the wind."

Generally I agree with what you say (if I know what you are talking about: your sense of hockey history, both recent and past, and hockey knowledge vastly exceeds mine;) and accept what you say if I don't know -- you have a great deal of credibility in my book. That said, I must question your initiative to raise these questions, and to keep raising them despite very simple and reasoned responses from Watcher and others. I have absolutely no insight into this situation, nor inside knowledge. I only know what I have read on the matter, and a lot of it is speculative at best. From what I gather, there is now a gag order of a sort imposed on university athletic department staff (and probably the women's hockey team as well) by their legal representatives, due to a probable pending lawsuit (maybe "probable" is naive or uninformed.) The unfortunate consequence of this is the (at least outward) appearance that the team is in limbo, since there is little or no conversation about the program. However, the answer to the question you posed in your piece "Who is minding the store..." is Coach Wood and Coach Jones, and that they are fully aware of their uncertain future at UNH -- their titles, after all, are "Interim Co-Coaches," and as you said, Coach Wood studied law. If Marty Scarano et al have to maintain silence in this matter, so be it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is nobody minding the store. I would find it very reasonable that there is a lot happening in the background, in terms of sub rosa conversations with prospective coaches that we don't know about. I'd also find it reasonable to asume that the interim coaches are doing their best to assuage the concerns of underclasswomen players as well as incoming freshmen. How effective they may be, given the coaching uncertainty, is a legitimate concern.

I won't pass judgment on whether or not the AD's actions were justified, because I, like most of us, were not there when the precipitating incident -- whatever it was -- happened (though they were certainly ham-handed at best.) I have a feeling that the words he used to justify the firing (inappropriate physical contact, or somesuch) will be mightily vexing for Marty Scarano, should it come to light that Coach McCloskey's actions didn't warrant that description that brings to mind evil doings.

Darius
03-27-2014, 06:02 PM
I'm struggling really hard at the moment to recall the last time the U was portrayed in a positive media spotlight. :confused:Beyond positive athletic stories (football, cross country, gymnastics, field hockey, Katey Stone) how about: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/science/solving-a-riddle-of-primes.html?_r=0 or Google "Nancy Kinner" (who frequently attends men's hockey games) or a movie titled "Frozen"? I can go on...

Chuck Murray
03-27-2014, 06:14 PM
Problem is Chuck that there has been no reporter willing to ask the hard questions and do a piece on the silence! All they do is go to a press conference about the stadium or pool and never engage without letting go! That's gotta change...where's the paparazzi when you need them! How about the Nee Hampshire doing some investigative journalism?

It's hard to report on silence, and I'm sure that's what BS35 and the legal team are banking on.

It's almost like how the media approaches a Coach Belichick press conference. They go there with low expectations, because they have been conditioned to accept it. With UNH these days, all BS35 or anyone else associated with Women's Hockey or Men's Hoop has to say is the magic phrase "no comment" or "our legal folks are handling that", and the "tough" questions end. It's all about conditioning - at least for the local guys/gals, who need daily access to get their jobs done.

Those who dare upset our dear Napoleonic commander come to the rink the next day/week and find their press credentials questioned, which of course makes doing one's job a challenge. I don't think it's a coincidence that the biggest media report on all of this was run in a media outlet located an hour south of us, which was/is immune to the petty local bullying tactics.

I think there is definitely a story here, and found Czarry's post earlier a fascinating one.

But in the meantime, the Women's Hockey program is taking it on the chin, and good people are indeed becoming "collateral damage" in this whole sordid affair. Leadership is sorely lacking at the top. And whether you're the head of a department or even the president of a university, it's a sad day when you abdicate your leadership to the Legal Department. With this kind of "leadership", that new football stadium has as much of a chance of coming to fruition as Epping has of being annexed by Vermont.

Darius
03-27-2014, 06:24 PM
Chuck, you wrote, "With the "interim" tags still attached to their titles, Coaches Wood and Jones face the future (long-term or otherwise) with questions, and precious few answers. There have been no statements of outward or even implied support from Athletic Department leadership (perhaps an oxymoron there?), and so two promising young assistants who encountered a series of obstacles not of their own making, wait without assurances to learn of decisions as to their fates with the UNH program ... figuratively twisting in the wind."

Generally I agree with what you say (if I know what you are talking about: your sense of hockey history, both recent and past, and hockey knowledge vastly exceeds mine;) and accept what you say if I don't know -- you have a great deal of credibility in my book. That said, I must question your initiative to raise these questions, and to keep raising them despite very simple and reasoned responses from Watcher and others. I have absolutely no insight into this situation, nor inside knowledge. I only know what I have read on the matter, and a lot of it is speculative at best. From what I gather, there is now a gag order of a sort imposed on university athletic department staff (and probably the women's hockey team as well) by their legal representatives, due to a probable pending lawsuit (maybe "probable" is naive or uninformed.) The unfortunate consequence of this is the (at least outward) appearance that the team is in limbo, since there is little or no conversation about the program. However, the answer to the question you posed in your piece "Who is minding the store..." is Coach Wood and Coach Jones, and that they are fully aware of their uncertain future at UNH -- their titles, after all, are "Interim Co-Coaches," and as you said, Coach Wood studied law. If Marty Scarano et al have to maintain silence in this matter, so be it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is nobody minding the store. I would find it very reasonable that there is a lot happening in the background, in terms of sub rosa conversations with prospective coaches that we don't know about. I'd also find it reasonable to asume that the interim coaches are doing their best to assuage the concerns of underclasswomen players as well as incoming freshmen. How effective they may be, given the coaching uncertainty, is a legitimate concern.

I won't pass judgment on whether or not the AD's actions were justified, because I, like most of us, were not there when the precipitating incident -- whatever it was -- happened (though they were certainly ham-handed at best.) I have a feeling that the words he used to justify the firing (inappropriate physical contact, or somesuch) will be mightily vexing for Marty Scarano, should it come to light that Coach McCloskey's actions didn't warrant that description that brings to mind evil doings.The assistant coaches, arguably people with as much knowledge of what actually transpired as anyone, are still in place. This speaks volumes. Who knows what they have been told, what support they have received? Good for them hanging in with dignity and class. When interviewing for future jobs, whether next week, next month next year or next decade they can say that they are loyal employees who understand what it means to be part of an organization and have demonstrated that they act accordingly.

If current players are asking for their releases and leaving then it is an opportunity (guarantee?) of playing time on the top rung of the competitive playing ladder (for most players). It is a good spin for an interim coach, one that an incoming Freshman might like hearing.

Darius
03-27-2014, 06:30 PM
It's hard to report on silence, and I'm sure that's what BS35 and the legal team are banking on.

It's almost like how the media approaches a Coach Belichick press conference. They go there with low expectations, because they have been conditioned to accept it. With UNH these days, all BS35 or anyone else associated with Women's Hockey or Men's Hoop has to say is the magic phrase "no comment" or "our legal folks are handling that", and the "tough" questions end. It's all about conditioning - at least for the local guys/gals, who need daily access to get their jobs done.

Those who dare upset our dear Napoleonic commander come to the rink the next day/week and find their press credentials questioned, which of course makes doing one's job a challenge. I don't think it's a coincidence that the biggest media report on all of this was run in a media outlet located an hour south of us, which was/is immune to the petty local bullying tactics.

I think there is definitely a story here, and found Czarry's post earlier a fascinating one.

But in the meantime, the Women's Hockey program is taking it on the chin, and good people are indeed becoming "collateral damage" in this whole sordid affair. Leadership is sorely lacking at the top. And whether you're the head of a department or even the president of a university, it's a sad day when you abdicate your leadership to the Legal Department. With this kind of "leadership", that new football stadium has as much of a chance of coming to fruition as Epping has of being annexed by Vermont.You set the over/under, I'll take the under before I know your number. Bet is one beer. Libby's? :)

zoofer
03-27-2014, 06:40 PM
Good analogy Chuck with Belichek....the problem goblue is Trust. Using hypothetical land for our Avatar, your an associate or assistant coach when you find your head coach is fired....so ur called in first to be told "this is how we're gonna handle this", and then when called back the next day, ur asked "why didn't you report this ASAP instead of waiting 48 hours"! Remember we're in Avatar land here but even so all of a sudden ur taken aback and on the defensive.....
Now let's pretend we're a player on said team, and all you ask is for some clarity to the situation the team and program are in, and what the future will bring....and NO ONE will honor your request to meet with you, so you have no idea of where you stand.....
So when Chuck asks his question, he's correct in asking it....because now neither coach, nor player can Trust in those that lead.....back to reality, this is not acceptable!
If we accept the fact that no one will come to the for and be a leader because "legal" controls the situation, the program will have most of the players leaving for solid ground, the Coaches finding people they can trust, and recruits who rethink their positions.....and our historic program down the crapper! This is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!

Chuck Murray
03-27-2014, 06:56 PM
I must question your initiative to raise these questions, and to keep raising them despite very simple and reasoned responses from Watcher and others. I have absolutely no insight into this situation, nor inside knowledge. I only know what I have read on the matter, and a lot of it is speculative at best. From what I gather, there is now a gag order of a sort imposed on university athletic department staff (and probably the women's hockey team as well) by their legal representatives, due to a probable pending lawsuit (maybe "probable" is naive or uninformed).

A "gag order" is an internal legal tactic. Strategy. There is NO binding legal force to it. Go ask Captain Nicole Gifford, who ignored any "gag order" and spoke her mind to the media not too long ago. Kudos to her.


However, the answer to the question you posed in your piece "Who is minding the store..." is Coach Wood and Coach Jones, and that they are fully aware of their uncertain future at UNH -- their titles, after all, are "Interim Co-Coaches," and as you said, Coach Wood studied law.

I think both Coaches Wood and Jones would be amused/surprised with your take on their current status.


If Marty Scarano et al have to maintain silence in this matter, so be it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is nobody minding the store. I would find it very reasonable that there is a lot happening in the background, in terms of sub rosa conversations with prospective coaches that we don't know about. I'd also find it reasonable to asume that the interim coaches are doing their best to assuage the concerns of underclasswomen players as well as incoming freshmen.

You (and Greg, and others perhaps) may be 100% correct about sub rosa conversations with prospective coaches ... but as about a half-dozen players have been granted their releases from the program since the close of the season, it sure doesn't look like anyone has been "assuaging the concerns" of at least half of the would-be returning 2014/2015 UNH Women's Hockey team.

I'm not trying to be confrontational on any of this with other posters. I'm just a little surprised that so many are so willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a so-called leader who can't wait to lead the parade when things are going well, but turtles and hides behind the lawyers when the going gets tough. There's a lot of legitimate points to debate here, but one things that's undisputed is the Women's program is in a bad place, a LOT of people inside the program are hurting, and none of it is their fault.

goblue
03-27-2014, 08:10 PM
A "gag order" is an internal legal tactic. Strategy. There is NO binding legal force to it. Go ask Captain Nicole Gifford, who ignored any "gag order" and spoke her mind to the media not too long ago. Kudos to her.



I think both Coaches Wood and Jones would be amused/surprised with your take on their current status.



You (and Greg, and others perhaps) may be 100% correct about sub rosa conversations with prospective coaches ... but as about a half-dozen players have been granted their releases from the program since the close of the season, it sure doesn't look like anyone has been "assuaging the concerns" of at least half of the would-be returning 2014/2015 UNH Women's Hockey team.

I'm not trying to be confrontational on any of this with other posters. I'm just a little surprised that so many are so willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a so-called leader who can't wait to lead the parade when things are going well, but turtles and hides behind the lawyers when the going gets tough. There's a lot of legitimate points to debate here, but one things that's undisputed is the Women's program is in a bad place, a LOT of people inside the program are hurting, and none of it is their fault.

(and by the way, that eyewink insertion in my original post was a mistake -- somehow the text program misinterpreted my punctuation.)

Chuck, c'mon, I'm making a pretty simple point. Wood and Jones are "Interim Co-Coaches." You don't think they know what the word "interim" means? You asked the question: who is minding the store. Just because MS appears to be at least an arm's length away from the women's program doesn't mean nobody is tending to things -- they are still the coaches until they are told they are not. I would think they get it the whole picture (and Wood having a law degree, even more so, in terms of what may be said and done.)

And I'm no defender of MS, and am not giving him the benefit of any doubt. In fact, and though I'm neither an attorney nor play one on television, I see a settlement before any suit is heard, and it's in McCloskey's favor, with UNH maintaining a position that it wants to move the focus of the women's program out of court and back to its rightful place on the ice in their pursuit of success, save money and trouble, blah blah blah. McCloskey is named assistant coach somewhere, with private assurance from someone in the know at UNH that he's a good coach with impeccable credentials and there was no inappropriate contact, all part of the undisclosed settlement, and it is announced that MS has retired "to spend more time with his family." If the last prediction doesn't happen, he will leave to find a job elsewhere.

And I had no idea that 6 women players have left the school since their last game. The program has been declining in terms of performance for several years. The current disarray may have been enough to convince those who had a lifeboat to jump ship, but who knows?

As I said before, much of what I have read is just speculation, and what I have written above is the same. Speculation. All any of us can do right now is to speculate, until we know more. We don't know what is transpiring behind closed doors or brick walls. As to MS hiding behind lawyers, well, if you were possibly the defendant (or at least the public face) in a lawsuit, what would you do? Abandon legal advice? Or remove yourself from the situation and place its management in the hands of others? I know pretty little about all of this, but as I surmised above, I think his job is in jeopardy, pending the legal outcome. I at least hope those would be the stakes.

It's simply hard for me to take the position that the women's hockey program is completely adrift, rudderless, with two coaches in name only, lacking any official capacity as captain. If that is indeed the case, then this whole sorry and sordid affair is even more shameful. I do hope the Trustees are keen to find out more about it.

Hux
03-27-2014, 10:52 PM
And I had no idea that 6 women players have left the school since their last game. The program has been declining in terms of performance for several years. The current disarray may have been enough to convince those who had a lifeboat to jump ship, but who knows?



No one has left, just putting their ducks in a row so they have options should the coaching situation not be resolved soon, or to their best advantage.

zoofer
03-28-2014, 05:20 AM
Wow, here's your chance Admin. To stand up and show some ability....meet with the players and see if they're fears can be calmed...all they want is to be shown that someone actually cares....to be shown that " at UNH, we take care of our student-athletes, premier above all"!